Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7 [All]

Author Topic: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks  (Read 27543 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4894
  • Respect: +19930
    • View Profile
Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 12:23:35 pm »
+43

At last, Landmarks. And five of them because why not. There are twenty-one of them so there are still plenty you haven't seen.



Landmarks are landscape-style like Events. You can shuffle them into the randomizer deck, and flip over cards until you have ten kingdom cards, using Events and Landmarks if they show up; if using this method I recommend having a max of two total Landmarks/Events. Or, you can shuffle Landmarks and Events into a separate randomizer deck and just always play with one or two of them. Or whatever else you think of; we like to leave that up to you.

Landmarks change the scoring for the game. Some just change it at the end; some use VP tokens to score during the game. You don't buy Landmarks like you do Events; they just sit there, telling you how you could be making points, if only.

Fountain is a simple one. At the end of the game, if you have 10+ Coppers, you get 15 VP. Bam. If you don't, you don't get anything; if you have 20+ Coppers, sorry, still just 15 VP. Okay? So, you decide: do you want the VP enough to have the Coppers? If you do, you probably don't want the extra Coppers until later, but you don't want to wait until it's too late. Sometimes you may even try to trash your starting Coppers and then buy them back later.

Battlefield is one of several Landmarks that gets 6 VP per player and then doles it out somehow in 2 VP increments. Battlefield gives it out with Victory cards; the first however many Victory cards are worth extra. Should you buy up Estates for the bonus VP, planning to immediately trash them? As usual, it depends on the board.

Wolf Den is a negative Landmark. At the end of the game, each lonely card dings you. For extra fun, pair with attacks that trash cards, or ways to hand out cards to other players. That first Duchy loses a little something.

Tomb works during the game but has no limit, beyond what you're able to trash. There's no guarantee that you can trash cards in a particular game, but that won't come up too often; it spices up trashers, Remodels, one-shots, and some other random cards like Hovel or Knights or Gladiator.

Keep is the area control Landmark. Each kind of Treasure is a little battle, including normal ones like Copper and special ones like Rocks. Whatever else you are doing this game, you would also like to win these battles.
Logged

LaLight

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 665
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +851
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 12:26:50 pm »
0

so, now i'm finally gonna take a piece of paper to every game. Just to write down how many of each card i have
Logged
Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: M87, M85, M92, M99, M107, RMM37, RMM39, RMM44, RMM45, BM24, M86, M94, M95, M100, ZM24
Losses: M88, M90, RMM38, NM8, NM9, M97, M106, RMM46, RMM48, ZM23, NM10, M115, RMM49, M108
Draws: RMM40
MVPs: RMM39, RMM44
Mod/Co-mod: RMM37, M89, M93, M91, M96, RMM41, M98, M101, M102, M104, M105, M109

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5451
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3393
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 12:28:46 pm »
+2

I expected Landmarks to be like Catan's Biggest Army or Longest Road. I like this very much.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 12:29:30 pm »
+3

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

ben_king

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
  • formerly grsbmd
  • Respect: +522
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:35 pm »
+4

Total game-changer.
Logged

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:40 pm »
+2

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10662
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11154
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 12:31:50 pm »
+7

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

LostPhoenix

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 164
  • Shuffle iT Username: Lost Phoenix
  • The Lurker
  • Respect: +162
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 12:33:54 pm »
+4

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?

I actually really like all of this art.
Logged

Cuzz

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • Shuffle iT Username: Cuzz
  • Respect: +799
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 12:36:48 pm »
+4

The VP swings for some of these are enormous. Completely different game when they're out.
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2016, 12:38:01 pm »
0

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?
It looks to classical. It's not bad art per se but compared to usual dominion art it doesn't fit. A lot of the previewed art looks to cartoony or not quality enough comapred to other cards.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

DLloyd09

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
  • Respect: +46
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2016, 12:39:12 pm »
+4

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

I'm sure it's just an image quality thing, but Battlefield looks like they're floating in the sky fighting, or standing on a cloud, because of how little of the ground you can see.

Anyway, yeah... this set shakes things up in so many interesting ways. Now I'm even more disappointed it's been delayed a week!
Logged

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
  • Respect: +1093
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2016, 12:40:49 pm »
+2

Landmarks: the thing we all thought would be part of Guilds, here at last!
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2016, 12:51:09 pm »
+3

These cards are nuts.

From the looks of things, these really change the game so much.

The trashing one looks to be my favorite, but that's probably because who doesn't like to trash cards.

lol at being encouraged to junk your deck with coppers.
Logged

Bext

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
  • AKA Burijidah
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2016, 12:54:03 pm »
0

Great card for casual (mediocre) players too! ( Me!) this can mix up the usual rush to Prov and give a player noticibly behind in that alternative ways to improve final VP score without super sophisticated strategy!
Logged

tastor

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Respect: +51
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2016, 12:54:55 pm »
0

These might be my favorite thing in Dominion yet. Events can shake up the game but it depends on the Kingdom and if there are synergies and even then a certain Event can usually just act like a one shot Action you get immediately. These seem like they have the potential to take basically any setup and inject different win conditions and strategies which changes how you view every other card. Genius.

Also, trying to keep track of the math in my head:

60 VP symbols reported from teasers
4 kingdom cards with VP tokens showing a total of 7 VP symbols + Donald reported 9 total kingdom cards with VP tokens = at least 12 VP symbols here
5 Landmarks shown with 6 VP symbols shown + 21 total Landmarks = at least 22 VP symbols here
City Quarter has a VP symbol in the art which I am counting

So so far 35 of the 60 VP symbols have been accounted for, meaning 25 VP symbols left to distribute among the remaining 5 kingdom cards, 16 landmarks and any other silly places they might show up.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3118
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2016, 12:55:10 pm »
0

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

There is no rules restriction on either number of events or the number of landmarks.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

yuma

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Respect: +609
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2016, 12:56:40 pm »
+3

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2016, 12:56:59 pm »
+2

so, now i'm finally gonna take a piece of paper to every game. Just to write down how many of each card i have

Not sure if intended to be serious, but this would be cheating (unless you all agreed to play by that house rule).
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2016, 12:57:55 pm »
0

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

There is no rules restriction on either number of events or the number of landmarks.

That's true, but I like the suggestion of having 0-2 from the pool of Landmarks and Events rather than having 0-2 of each.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2016, 12:58:36 pm »
+6

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

DG

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3996
  • Respect: +2550
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 01:02:30 pm »
+9

One dull old Dominion puzzle has got a lot more interesting. What's the lowest possible winning score in a Dominion game?
Logged

yuma

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Respect: +609
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 01:03:32 pm »
0

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.

I think that is a reasonable interpretation, but I can see it going either way.

Feodum says nothing about "when scoring"

Quote
Worth 1 VP for every 3 Silvers in your deck (rounded down)

So I can see the interpretation for Feodum meaning that it is constantly refreshed, but that for Landmarks it is a one time scoring moment (at the end of the game).
Logged

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
  • Respect: +2425
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 01:03:35 pm »
+6

I got to play Kingdom Builder last week, and man, this sure feels like Kingdom Builder. In a good way.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3639
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2202
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 01:04:54 pm »
+1

The design space of persistent global effects was open all this time. Now it's a reality. I'm happy with the variety we are seeing here. Of these Landmarks some want you to meet a condition at the end of the game, and within those there are some that care about the other players and others which do not. Then there are Landmarks that benefit you for actions taken in-game.

I'm starting to get overwhelmed here. So many different themes to juggle. I think an Empires-heavy kingdom will be all kinds of crazy.

Edit: Also wow 21 Landmarks! That's a lot!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:07:36 pm by markusin »
Logged

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • They can't all be the best personal text ever
  • Respect: +1933
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 01:05:00 pm »
+2

Swindler and Wolf's den make for hilariously low scoring games.
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

twitch.tv/a_drowned_kernel

LaLight

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 665
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +851
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 01:05:45 pm »
0

so, now i'm finally gonna take a piece of paper to every game. Just to write down how many of each card i have

Not sure if intended to be serious, but this would be cheating (unless you all agreed to play by that house rule).

Why is that? is it said in rules? Now, the one with a good memory becomes a strictly better player than the one with the bad, isn't it?
Logged
Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: M87, M85, M92, M99, M107, RMM37, RMM39, RMM44, RMM45, BM24, M86, M94, M95, M100, ZM24
Losses: M88, M90, RMM38, NM8, NM9, M97, M106, RMM46, RMM48, ZM23, NM10, M115, RMM49, M108
Draws: RMM40
MVPs: RMM39, RMM44
Mod/Co-mod: RMM37, M89, M93, M91, M96, RMM41, M98, M101, M102, M104, M105, M109

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 01:05:58 pm »
+3

Swindler and Wolf's den make for hilariously low scoring games.
How about masquerade/black market with wolf den?
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6447
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7800
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2016, 01:06:00 pm »
+2

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

A lot of people seem to dislike the more cartoon-style art. 
Logged

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2016, 01:06:06 pm »
+7

Wolf's Den also makes Fairgrounds a lot harder.

Joseph2302

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 845
  • Shuffle iT Username: Joseph2302
  • "Better to be lucky than good"
  • Respect: +552
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2016, 01:06:10 pm »
0

I got to play Kingdom Builder last week, and man, this sure feels like Kingdom Builder. In a good way.
Exactly what I was thinking, having played Kingdom Builder for the first time 2 weeks ago.
Interesting to have public end (and in-game) goals that change the game even more, by encouraging weird & wonderful strategies.
Logged
Mafia Stats:
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

ced

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect: +98
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2016, 01:06:42 pm »
+1

One dull old Dominion puzzle has got a lot more interesting. What's the lowest possible winning score in a Dominion game?

3-pile Ruins, Curses, Knights with Shelters and Wolf Den.
Logged

JW

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1237
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 01:07:34 pm »
+4

We're going to be playing with a lot of landmarks/events on average after Empires.

Using the recommendation of a 2 event/landmark limit, the negative binomial approximation (how can Excel not have a built in negative hypergeometric distribution!), and assuming 47 total events/landmarks and 262 total kingdom cards (I'm not sure we know how many kingdom cards and events will be in Empires):

Chance of 0 events/landmarks: 19.2%
Chance of 1 events/landmarks: 29.2%
Chance of 2 events/landmarks: 51.6%
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 05:33:38 pm by JW »
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1240
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2016, 01:08:04 pm »
+1

defend yourself from wolves with a talisman.

eh, swing and a miss
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
6-9
he/him
beloved my john, i'll carry on

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2016, 01:09:35 pm »
+5

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.

I think that is a reasonable interpretation, but I can see it going either way.

Feodum says nothing about "when scoring"

Quote
Worth 1 VP for every 3 Silvers in your deck (rounded down)

So I can see the interpretation for Feodum meaning that it is constantly refreshed, but that for Landmarks it is a one time scoring moment (at the end of the game).

Any reasonable point tracker would keep track of Landmark VP as the game progresses. All existing VP cards have an implicit "When scoring,"
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2016, 01:11:09 pm »
+1

This is pretty much what I expected Landmarks   I like it.  I vaguely recall fan card threads with this basic premise and it was well received then too, though I and others may have recommended caution for effects with VP swings as big as these.

I especially like the ones that entice you to do things you otherwise wouldn't (Fountain, Battlefield) or make you care about stuff that you usually  take for granted (Wolf's Den, Keep).  I also wonder how many Landmarks that help new players learn strategy (Tomb may encourage a newbie to trash stuff and then they might see that trashing is good even when you don't get VP for it).

Landmarks don't actually have "setup" written on them.  Well, these ones don't at least... Maybe on tomorrow's events.
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2016, 01:14:03 pm »
+1

This is pretty much what I expected Landmarks   I like it.  I vaguely recall fan card threads with this basic premise and it was well received then too, though I and others may have recommended caution for effects with VP swings as big as these.

I especially like the ones that entice you to do things you otherwise wouldn't (Fountain, Battlefield) or make you care about stuff that you usually  take for granted (Wolf's Den, Keep).  I also wonder how many Landmarks that help new players learn strategy (Tomb may encourage a newbie to trash stuff and then they might see that trashing is good even when you don't get VP for it).

Landmarks don't actually have "setup" written on them.  Well, these ones don't at least... Maybe on tomorrow's events.
Battlefield does.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2016, 01:14:24 pm »
+2

One of the Landmarks mentions setup.
Logged

Aleimon Thimble

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 662
  • Shuffle iT Username: Aleimon Thimble
  • Respect: +665
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 01:14:41 pm »
+2

Dominion is now a completely different game.

I like this new game very much.
Logged
[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 01:14:56 pm »
+1

Landmarks don't actually have "setup" written on them.  Well, these ones don't at least... Maybe on tomorrow's events.

Battlefield has "setup", and Donald has stated right in the preview that there are more like it.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6447
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7800
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 01:15:42 pm »
+1

I find the (blueish) green color soothing.
Logged

A Ladder

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 01:16:14 pm »
+1

Wolf's Den also makes Fairgrounds a lot harder.

And going for Knights a terrible idea. (cue edge-casing).

BTW, I really like the art of Wolf's Den.

I am a HUGE fan of Keep. Big Money just got a big boost in viability.

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 01:16:54 pm »
+11

All you people wondering why Empires comes with 2-VP tokens rather than e.g. 10-VP tokens, this is why. VP comes off of Landmarks like Battlefield in 2-VP chunks, and it's really nice not to have to make change or have a huge pile of 1-VP tokens on these Landmarks.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2016, 01:17:17 pm »
0

For the purposes of Tomb: who's doing the trashing when you play, say, Thief?
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

michaeljb

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1391
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2013
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2016, 01:19:03 pm »
+4

For the purposes of Tomb: who's doing the trashing when you play, say, Thief?

The player who owns the card being trashed. "they trash one of them that you choose".

e: changed my quote to actually be from Thief's text.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:20:12 pm by michaeljb »
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1739
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2016, 01:20:09 pm »
+3

For the purposes of Tomb: who's doing the trashing when you play, say, Thief?

"Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck. If they revealed any Treasure cards, they trash one of them that you choose. You may gain any or all of these trashed cards. They discard the other revealed cards."

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1739
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2016, 01:21:42 pm »
+1

SCSN is not going to be happy when Wolf is out.

michaeljb

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1391
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2013
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2016, 01:21:47 pm »
0

Also, while Market Square doesn't trigger with Gladiator's Supply trashing, Tomb does.
Logged

singletee

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 854
  • Shuffle iT Username: singletee
  • Gold, Silver, Copper, Let's Jam!
  • Respect: +1487
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2016, 01:25:56 pm »
+7

Why is that? is it said in rules?

The rules specify what you can do, not what you can't; for anything game-related, you can't do it unless the rules allow you to.

Now, the one with a good memory becomes a strictly better player than the one with the bad, isn't it?

Yes. Fortunately you can play online with a point-counter, or you can agree to play a variant with your friends where you are all allowed to write down notes.

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2724
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3600
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2016, 01:35:48 pm »
+1

how can Excel not have a built in negative hypergeometric distribution!

I know, right!
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2016, 01:36:11 pm »
+4

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.

I think that is a reasonable interpretation, but I can see it going either way.

Feodum says nothing about "when scoring"

Quote
Worth 1 VP for every 3 Silvers in your deck (rounded down)

So I can see the interpretation for Feodum meaning that it is constantly refreshed, but that for Landmarks it is a one time scoring moment (at the end of the game).

Sure it's a valid point, but I think it's really just creating a meaningless distinction where none exists. Now if a Dominion card is ever created that requires a player to count his VP during the game, then suddenly this type of thing will matter. But unless that happens, VP is inherently a concept that means nothing until the game is over.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ced

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect: +98
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2016, 01:36:41 pm »
+1

Fountain offers a massive reward for only needing three Copper above the starting total. It's trivial in Mountebank games, fairly easy in an engine with lots of +buy eg Workers Village, and Beggar does it easily too. It's more interesting in money games. If you only have one buy, then you obviously need to pick up those coppers - they're worth a whopping 5VP each. The question is when do you get them? Additionally, if there's copper trashing on the board, do you skip it, or can your thin deck outscore someone going for 10 coppers?

Battlefield offers an additional 12VP for the first few green cards built. I can see this not being a huge deal in many games - perhaps you'll start greening a little earlier and split the VP 8-4. Or, as Donald X mentions, pick up an Estate and trash it. It's pretty cool for alt-VP strategies, where you aggressively buy out e.g. the Gardens early. It's also a nice little bonus for gaining Great Hall or Island.

Wolf Den will hurt some engines. You want to add a second copy of any of your payload actions, most likely. This might just reduce diversity (and result in things like double Militia), or increase terminal collision. Maybe you could buy it in the last couple of turns. It affects Duchy dancing. That first Duchy isn't worth any VPs, so you need to get that second one to counterbalance it. It also interacts with a lot of cards. Golden decks are going to be undesirable, looters and Swindler get a boost, and Black Market/Tournament/Knights might be skippable with Wolf Den out.

Tomb mostly looks like a little buff to any trashing on the table. It also gives something to do in the lategame - start trashing cards out of your deck for a bit of extra VP when the game is close to the end. It also makes you feel better about trashing the starting Estates - no need to keep one around as a tiebreaker.

Keep is going to be a huge BM card. BM decks are trivially going to pick up at least 10 VP from this card against an engine. In the BM mirror, it will encourage continuing to build - Golds are the obvious fight you want to win, and you might need to ignore Provinces for a while to do it. Fun with any kingdom treasures which are out. Cache is now a card you need to win the split on.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2016, 01:41:46 pm »
0

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2016, 01:47:01 pm »
+4

Battlefield does.

Whoooops.  You (and the others) are right.  Slip of the mind.

Why is that? is it said in rules?

The rules specify what you can do, not what you can't; for anything game-related, you can't do it unless the rules allow you to.

Now, the one with a good memory becomes a strictly better player than the one with the bad, isn't it?

Yes. Fortunately you can play online with a point-counter, or you can agree to play a variant with your friends where you are all allowed to write down notes.

Well, better memory doesn't make for a strictly better player because you still need to know what to do with that information.  There's more to being a good player than knowing what's in your deck, though it certainly helps. 

I always find it odd when people try to use the "loophole" of, "well the rulebook doesn't say you can't".  Rules are permissive, not restrictive, because they can't cover ever possible real life scenario.  Some other things that the rule book doesn't explicitly forbid:

- rigging your shuffle so key cards are more likely to be near the top (there was actually a big thread years ago where somebody tried to argue that this was acceptable)
- secretly marking the cards so you can tell what's in your opponent's hand
- setting fire to your opponent's deck

Dominion is a game that rewards many skills and talents, memory included.  As it is, plenty of Dominion players prefer testing their ability to find strategies and make tactical decisions and aren't as keen on the memory aspect, so they like to play with VP counters or even full-blown deck trackers.  And that's fine if it's what you like, and if all the players agree.

Edit: typoooo
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 02:07:43 pm by eHalcyon »
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2016, 01:49:56 pm »
+4

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.
Logged

singletee

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 854
  • Shuffle iT Username: singletee
  • Gold, Silver, Copper, Let's Jam!
  • Respect: +1487
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2016, 01:56:27 pm »
0

Swindler may like Wolf Den, but it doesn't like Battlefield. Hitting an opponent's Estate gives them 2 points for free, and turning a 5 into a Duchy becomes much less appealing.

Rebuild-Battlefield is just silly.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2016, 01:59:05 pm »
+2

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.

Don't let's be silly.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1764
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2016, 02:01:44 pm »
+6

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.

Most expensive Duchy ever!
Logged

golden_cow2

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Respect: +8
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2016, 02:08:23 pm »
+2

Battlefield does.

Whoooops.  You (and the others) are right.  Slip of the mind.

Why is that? is it said in rules?

The rules specify what you can do, not what you can't; for anything game-related, you can't do it unless the rules allow you to.

Now, the one with a good memory becomes a strictly better player than the one with the bad, isn't it?

Yes. Fortunately you can play online with a point-counter, or you can agree to play a variant with your friends where you are all allowed to write down notes.

Well, better memory doesn't make for a strictly better player because you still need to know what to do with that information.  There's more to being a good player than knocking what's in your deck, though it certainly helps. 

I always find it odd when people try to use the "loophole" of, "well the rulebook doesn't say you can't".  Rules are permissive, not restrictive, because they can't cover ever possible real life scenario.  Some other things that the rule book doesn't explicitly forbid:

- rigging your shuffle so key cards are more likely to be near the top (there was actually a big thread years ago where somebody tried to argue that this was acceptable)
- secretly marking the cards so you can tell what's in your opponent's hand
- setting fire to your opponent's deck

Dominion is a game that rewards many skills and talents, memory included.  As it is, plenty of Dominion players prefer testing their ability to find strategies and make tactical decisions and aren't as keen on the memory aspect, so they like to play with VP counters or even full-blown deck trackers.  And that's fine if it's what you like, and if all the players agree.

I could be equally hyperbolic by saying that the rules don't permit you to talk, breath, or remember things at all. While rulebooks are permissive in theory, there are always unwritten assumptions which is why sometimes rulebooks must explicitly state restrictive rules (such as a "no talking" rule used in various games where in all other cases it is assumed players are permitted to talk even if the rules don't say that).

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2016, 02:08:54 pm »
+2

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.

Most expensive Duchy ever!

You can still use that second Fortune!  Sometimes you really need another +Buy, especially when you're doubling your money.  Sometimes you don't draw your deck every turn.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2016, 02:11:39 pm »
0

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.

Most expensive Duchy ever!

You can still use that second Fortune!  Sometimes you really need another +Buy, especially when you're doubling your money.  Sometimes you don't draw your deck every turn.

Yeah, I don't see why you would automatically want to stop at 1 Fortune... sure you can get unlucky and have them collide; but in general a second one will mean using it twice per shuffle instead of once per shuffle.

Now, Wolf Den does seem like it would really hurt Tournament and Fairgrounds, while making Cultist way stronger.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4894
  • Respect: +19930
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2016, 02:13:36 pm »
+7

I could be equally hyperbolic by saying that the rules don't permit you to talk, breath, or remember things at all. While rulebooks are permissive in theory, there are always unwritten assumptions which is why sometimes rulebooks must explicitly state restrictive rules (such as a "no talking" rule used in various games where in all other cases it is assumed players are permitted to talk even if the rules don't say that).

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.
Incorrecto. This has been discussed at length already, so: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=876.msg13546#msg13546
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2016, 02:15:13 pm »
+2

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.

No need to guess, this has been discussed multiple times before, and Donald has been extremely clear that taking notes is either cheating or a house rule/variant; depending on if your opponent agrees to it.

*Edit* Ninja'd by the man himself.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2016, 02:16:59 pm »
0

I could be equally hyperbolic by saying that the rules don't permit you to talk, breath, or remember things at all. While rulebooks are permissive in theory, there are always unwritten assumptions which is why sometimes rulebooks must explicitly state restrictive rules (such as a "no talking" rule used in various games where in all other cases it is assumed players are permitted to talk even if the rules don't say that).

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.

Those are things that are unrelated the game itself, so the game doesn't need to permit you to do them.  I'll grant that talking is a fuzzy case though.  Rule books may state some restrictive rules for the purpose of clarity, especially when players would otherwise make assumptions that they shouldn't.

This topic has come up before and Donald has said explicitly that note-taking is not allowed, i.e. it really is cheating.  But you are free to play variants, and using counters and trackers is one of the most common variants, especially online.

PPE: super ninja'd
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2016, 02:20:00 pm »
0

OK. Now buying Empires is a no-brainer!

Forge, Tomb, oodles of Treasure Troves and some card draw.

It might suck, but I'm eager to give it a try, and that's the main thing.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2016, 02:28:57 pm »
+1

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

I'm pretty sure that doubling your money is worth a lot more than a Duchy.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2016, 02:31:02 pm »
+1

In Gladiator/Wolf Den games, you'll have to weigh whether getting that Fortune will be worth the -3.

You could also buy a second Fortune.


Most expensive Duchy ever!

You can still use that second Fortune!  Sometimes you really need another +Buy, especially when you're doubling your money.  Sometimes you don't draw your deck every turn.

Yeah, I don't see why you would automatically want to stop at 1 Fortune... sure you can get unlucky and have them collide; but in general a second one will mean using it twice per shuffle instead of once per shuffle.

Now, Wolf Den does seem like it would really hurt Tournament and Fairgrounds, while making Cultist way stronger.

As if Cultist needed any buffing. To make matters worse, one player can get a ton of duplicates from Cultist while another player gets one of each ruins.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 02:33:17 pm by Beyond Awesome »
Logged

Simon (DK)

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Sirusc
  • Respect: +216
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2016, 02:34:50 pm »
0

Is it just me, or isn't Wolf Den/Knights interesting?
If you're the only one going for Knights, then you have the advantage of being able to trash the opponents deck, but the disadvantage that you have to buy more victory cards.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 02:47:16 pm by Simon (DK) »
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3323
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2016, 02:35:32 pm »
0

I like these, I like these a lot.
The reason is simple, they try to make you think about different strategies you can pursue.

There's always been a way to get a lot of points without Copper (just trashing them), but now you can do something entirely different. The fun thing is, you probably can't do both.


And Wolf Den is amusing to make players buy Sea Hags and stuff near the end of the game.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Orange

  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 251
  • Shuffle iT Username: Orange
  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • Respect: +252
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2016, 02:37:38 pm »
0

I think Keep is the most interesting of these.  Save a couple Spoils for a 10 VP swing.  More Silver and fewer kingdom cards for another.  A couple useless Potions or Quarries in a game without another compelling reason to buy them.  Thin those Coppers or hold on to a few more?

The average game probably has about 4.5-5 Treasure cards.  Win 4 of 5 battles and you are up 15--you can lose Province 5-3 and still win.
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2016, 02:43:57 pm »
+8

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2016, 02:44:45 pm »
0

I have a feeling our minds will explode on some Kingdoms where Landmarks are out. Man, these change the game so much.
Logged

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2016, 02:50:00 pm »
+3

Miser just got a buff . . .
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2016, 02:57:09 pm »
+2

Miser just got a buff . . .

He must have a Fountain bundled away in his wagon along with all the other junk he's hoarding.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2016, 02:58:32 pm »
+1

With what we know so far, Empires offers more VP strategies/cards than all of Dominion combined prior to this.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3118
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2016, 03:07:28 pm »
0

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2016, 03:12:43 pm »
0

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?

I guess it really depends, if Princes is the only source of +buy, it's probably worth a duchy. If Followers is the only way to junk without trashing, it's probably worth getting. The discard attack hurts too.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7058
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9287
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2016, 03:30:27 pm »
+5

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?

More often than you think.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

King Leon

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Respect: +179
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2016, 03:32:55 pm »
+2

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?
You can still gain Duchies by Tournament, which is also not bad

I guess there will be a promo landmark in Essen this year.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2016, 03:59:52 pm »
+4

Tomb is a Rats buff.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2016, 04:17:15 pm »
0

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

Unless it's a Keep + Wolf Den game.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Elestan

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 456
  • Respect: +420
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2016, 04:20:46 pm »
+4

Tomb is a Rats buff.

Like nothing you've ever seen before, and if you add Fortress, it gets truly ridiculous.  I ended that game with close to 200 VP.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 04:24:18 pm by Elestan »
Logged

dbclick

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Shuffle iT Username: dbclick
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2016, 04:47:34 pm »
+5

At last, Landmarks. And five of them because why not. There are twenty-one of them so there are still plenty you haven't seen.

So, the card breakdown most likely as follows, given that there are 21 events Landmarks and 76 pieces of card art:

300 Cards:
  • 24 Kingdom card piles of 10 cards each, 8 are split piles
  • 21 Landmarks
  • 15 Events
  • 0 blank cards

This makes 300 cards even (with 11 cards per kingdom pile).
Here's the breakdown for the art:
  • 24 pieces of art in the kingdom piles.
  • 21 pieces of landmark card art
  • 15 is the number of events needed to get 300 cards (using 25 kingdom piles only leaves you with 4 cards left for events, which is too low).
  • 24 + 21 + 15 = 60 art, leaving 16 for the split piles
  • It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
  • I'm assuming no Alt-VP cards in this set, since there are already so many new ways to score and no piles with weird numbers of cards (e.g. Rats, Port).

If I'm right, that means there are:
  • 16 unrevealed Landmarks
  • 15 unrevealed Events (some of which will come up tomorrow)
  • 5 unrevealed Split piles (with the 2 cards in each)
  • 6 unrevealed regular Kingdom cards (1 card per pile)
  • 48 total unrevealed cards/landmarks/events (we've seen 21 so far)

Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

EDIT: 23 Kingdom piles with 6 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 20 Events, and 6 Blank cards is also valid, but does seem low on the Kingdom piles and a bit high on Events (also the same with 19 Events and 7 split piles).
EDIT 2: Well, with the Events and Castles preview with 13 Events and 8 Castles card artwork, that basically makes it 24 Kingdom piles (one being Castles victory pile), 5 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 13 Events, and 0 blank cards.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:55:43 pm by dbclick »
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2016, 04:53:52 pm »
0

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.
Logged

flaquito

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
  • Respect: +36
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »
+2

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

I'm still having a hard time seeing how the art on Settlers/Bustling Village will fit together. The earth-tones seem to be too different in their coloring. Plus, given the card orientations, the vertical combining of Gladiator/Fortune and Catapult/Rocks works really well. But with sky at the top of both Settlers and Bustling Village, that doesn't work. I'm sure when I actually see the randomizer it'll make complete sense, though.
Logged

dbclick

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Shuffle iT Username: dbclick
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2016, 05:03:13 pm »
+1

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

If you look closely at the Rocks/Catapult art, you can see that the Rocks art background is actually a zoomed in part of the background art of Catapult (look for that row of 6 or so horizontal dots near the bushes in both images). I assume the randomizer has these composited in some way, since the Catapult would appear in the Rocks art and vice-versa if they were only one image. Hence, 3 total pieces of art for the split piles.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2016, 05:23:07 pm »
0

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

If you look closely at the Rocks/Catapult art, you can see that the Rocks art background is actually a zoomed in part of the background art of Catapult (look for that row of 6 or so horizontal dots near the bushes in both images). I assume the randomizer has these composited in some way, since the Catapult would appear in the Rocks art and vice-versa if they were only one image. Hence, 3 total pieces of art for the split piles.

Hmm, I figured that the Rocks image would be aligned below the Catapult one, but zoomed out more.  And the Settlers would be on the left or right of the Bustling Village.  I guess we'll have to wait and see then.
Logged

Moneymodel

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
  • Respect: +129
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2016, 05:50:06 pm »
+2

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

Unless it's a Keep + Wolf Den game.

Well, that's still 2VP. Basically makes it a better Harem.
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2694
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2877
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2016, 05:53:57 pm »
+1

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2016, 05:57:32 pm »
+2

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1099
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1592
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2016, 06:05:27 pm »
+7

Shouldn't Wolf Den be purple instead of green?
Logged

dbclick

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Shuffle iT Username: dbclick
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2016, 06:07:23 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2016, 06:10:15 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2016, 06:14:04 pm »
+4

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
Travellers were briefly cyan during testing. It wasn't great.

Prototype events were mauve.
Logged

Throwaway_bicycling

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
  • Respect: +137
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2016, 06:29:06 pm »
+5

Tomb is a Rats buff.

And Rats are notoriously tough to buff. Fur gets in the way.

But now I'm sure more people will take a shine to those nasty little vermin, which probably makes their Creator smile.

Disclaimer: I really like Rats which is not, alas, exactly the same thing as being any good with the card.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2016, 06:34:21 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
Travellers were briefly cyan during testing. It wasn't great.

Prototype events were mauve.

Do you pronounce "mauve" with the vowel in "law" or the vowel in "trove"?
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10662
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11154
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #95 on: May 12, 2016, 06:45:55 pm »
0

Do you pronounce "mauve" with the vowel in "law" or the vowel in "trove"?

Trove has two vowels (ə and ʊ).
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Hockey Mask

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
  • Respect: +160
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #96 on: May 12, 2016, 06:51:33 pm »
0

I could be equally hyperbolic by saying that the rules don't permit you to talk, breath, or remember things at all. While rulebooks are permissive in theory, there are always unwritten assumptions which is why sometimes rulebooks must explicitly state restrictive rules (such as a "no talking" rule used in various games where in all other cases it is assumed players are permitted to talk even if the rules don't say that).

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.
Incorrecto. This has been discussed at length already, so: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=876.msg13546#msg13546
Now that was an entertaining thread!
Logged
-The Compulsive Completist

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1915
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2306
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2016, 07:05:18 pm »
0

I'm having a bit of trouble with the wording on Keep: what's wrong with "at least as many"?  I like that Dominion occasionally has tortured but precise wordings, but I don't see the need here.  And is "most" a different type of "more"?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:11:15 pm by qmech »
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2016, 08:07:09 pm »
+1

Mmm. That does feel a little wonky. Maybe "When scoring, 5VP per differently named Treasure you have, if no other player has more copies of it than you do."?
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2016, 08:08:46 pm »
0

Tomb is a Rats buff.
Like nothing you've ever seen before, and if you add Fortress, it gets truly ridiculous.  I ended that game with close to 200 VP.
Out of interest, how did you afford the Fortresses? I would have expected your spending power to turn into a writhing mass of fur almost immediately. (Hmm... Alms?)
Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1273
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2016, 08:10:59 pm »
+9

I'm having a bit of trouble with the wording on Keep: what's wrong with "at least as many"?  I like that Dominion occasionally has tortured but precise wordings, but I don't see the need here.  And is "most" a different type of "more".
It's to deal with edge cases when someone has Potion-many copies of a card.
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2016, 08:17:12 pm »
+6

...presumably when someone overpays a Potion for Masterpiece?
Logged

Elestan

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 456
  • Respect: +420
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2016, 08:51:35 pm »
0

Tomb is a Rats buff.
Like nothing you've ever seen before, and if you add Fortress, it gets truly ridiculous.  I ended that game with close to 200 VP.
Out of interest, how did you afford the Fortresses? I would have expected your spending power to turn into a writhing mass of fur almost immediately. (Hmm... Alms?)

You only really need one Fortress (though more are better), and as many Rats as you can breed.  Tomb turns it into a golden deck.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3312
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3656
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2016, 09:00:17 pm »
0

I am kinda sad that you can't Raid the Tomb, though.

Seriously now, really excited about these. I think the concept works better than in, say, RftG, where some players will just naturally want to follow the strategy encouraged by the objectives because of their initial planet or starting hand.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #104 on: May 12, 2016, 09:22:09 pm »
0

I wonder how often a Great Hall/Great Hall opening will be good on a Battlefield board.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #105 on: May 12, 2016, 09:27:33 pm »
+1

I wonder how often a Great Hall/Great Hall opening will be good on a Battlefield board.

Island will certainly become better.

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 636
  • Respect: +1027
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #106 on: May 12, 2016, 09:45:03 pm »
0

With Keep, you might choose to Island your Coppers instead of your Estates (especially with other trashing on the board). And you'll definitely want to Island some Spoils and Masterpieces.

Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1273
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #107 on: May 12, 2016, 09:47:25 pm »
+1

Distant Lands has a consolation for when you don't get it onto your Tavern mat.
Logged

jdgordon

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #108 on: May 12, 2016, 10:00:17 pm »
0

5 Pages and noone has asked the most important question!!!!

What colour are the backs? brown to go along with events or blue to go with what events were supposed to be? (if they are blue, will RGG release blue backed events to fix adventures?)
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #109 on: May 12, 2016, 10:10:54 pm »
+3

5 Pages and noone has asked the most important question!!!!

What colour are the backs? brown to go along with events or blue to go with what events were supposed to be? (if they are blue, will RGG release blue backed events to fix adventures?)

Brown.  Donald said on BGG.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

jdgordon

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2016, 10:19:24 pm »
0

5 Pages and noone has asked the most important question!!!!

What colour are the backs? brown to go along with events or blue to go with what events were supposed to be? (if they are blue, will RGG release blue backed events to fix adventures?)

Brown.  Donald said on BGG.

Awesome. Thanks
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #111 on: May 12, 2016, 10:51:49 pm »
+4

5 Pages and noone has asked the most important question!!!!

What colour are the backs? brown to go along with events or blue to go with what events were supposed to be? (if they are blue, will RGG release blue backed events to fix adventures?)

I don't consider the brown backs of Events an error. I mean the intention was blue, but kingdom cards are brown, and when Events are in the kingdom, I think it makes more sense for their backs to match the other cards. Anyway, it shouldn't really matter with what will likely be over 300+ cards once Empires comes out, why not just use a Randomizer app. Seriously, who shuffles that many cards at once.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1524
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1454
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2016, 11:03:46 pm »
0

To me, all those landmarks look really strong so far to the extent where you can not ignore them should they be on the board. Definitely changes the way you play a kingdom significantly, I hope they don't dominate as much as I think they will.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2016, 11:09:34 pm »
0

To me, all those landmarks look really strong so far to the extent where you can not ignore them should they be on the board. Definitely changes the way you play a kingdom significantly, I hope they don't dominate as much as I think they will.

They will certainly change how we play and think about scoring, bit the game still has to end in the same way that any other game ends. It won't be as big a shift as it seems at first, I think.

jdgordon

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2016, 11:25:24 pm »
+1

5 Pages and noone has asked the most important question!!!!

What colour are the backs? brown to go along with events or blue to go with what events were supposed to be? (if they are blue, will RGG release blue backed events to fix adventures?)

I don't consider the brown backs of Events an error. I mean the intention was blue, but kingdom cards are brown, and when Events are in the kingdom, I think it makes more sense for their backs to match the other cards. Anyway, it shouldn't really matter with what will likely be over 300+ cards once Empires comes out, why not just use a Randomizer app. Seriously, who shuffles that many cards at once.

I don't consider it an error either, just wanted to see if the colours were consistent (which is great they are). As for not using a randomizer app, (I'm Jewish), on saturday we don't use electronics (i.e phones), so if we want to play we grab a handful of the blue-backs, shuffle and reveal 10ish until happy, then grab the events and pull out 1 or 2. Adding these to the events is no issue then.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1903
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2016, 11:25:31 pm »
0

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2405
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2016, 11:33:56 pm »
+1

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?

I'm pretty sure you technically don't score until the game ends.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8030
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9283
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2016, 11:43:24 pm »
+1

I just realized Wolf Den even has Roman flavor - the Romulus and Remus myth.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 641
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2016, 11:43:47 pm »
+1

I was just thinking about this, and I think that Landmarks will be easier to explain to newer players than Events. I've had many people ask about Events something along the lines of "so do I just buy this and then take it, and it goes in front of me and I can use it whenever I want?" With Landmarks it's much easier to explain that it's basically like an extra rule for that game. Of course the strategic implications might be harder to grasp than Events, but what can you do.

flaquito

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
  • Respect: +36
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2016, 11:47:22 pm »
+1

With Landmarks it's much easier to explain that it's basically like an extra rule for that game.

It's like Nefarious has come to Dominion, and we have our own twists!
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 636
  • Respect: +1027
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #120 on: May 12, 2016, 11:48:50 pm »
+2

I just realized Wolf Den even has Roman flavor - the Romulus and Remus myth.

Romulus and Remus? Those characters suck.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4894
  • Respect: +19930
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #121 on: May 13, 2016, 12:07:00 am »
+2

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?
And what happens when you use Watchtower to put Nomad Camp on your deck?

And why do fools fall in love?
Logged

tristan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1138
  • Respect: +192
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2016, 02:04:06 am »
0

I don't like Keep. There are already a zillion Euros with set collection and IMO GeneralRamos' Buried Treasure is a better implentation of the "majority/variety of Treasures for VPs" idea.
I don't get Tomb. It is kinda like a Gold Feodum, i.e. it further incentives something which is already pretty good.
Fountain is of course pretty trivial in non-trashing games, you will just buy three Coppers aka Duchies for 0$ that provide a coin. But in trashing games it is probably pretty tricky to figure out whether a thin deck is worth 15VPs or not.
I have a weakness for stuff that incentives earlier greening / alt-VP so two thumbs up for Battlefield.
Wolf Den is set collection done right.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:07:02 am by tristan »
Logged

Festivemajor

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2016, 02:05:17 am »
0

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?
And what happens when you use Watchtower to put Nomad Camp on your deck?

And why do fools fall in love?

I've experienced it matters when you have, for some reason, to quit mid-game and someone decides to count points anyway. Now I can respond there are no points to be counted unless the game is ended by prov/col/3-piles.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3323
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #124 on: May 13, 2016, 03:44:43 am »
0

I actually dislike Tomb, for the simple reason that trashing is often already a strong move, you don't need much extra incentive for it.

But now that I think about it, it is pretty funny with cards like Swindler, Thief/Brigand, Knights, etc.
Your Copper gets Swindled into a Curse, but you gain a free VP, hurray!

It does make Thief even worse.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1524
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1454
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2016, 03:54:06 am »
+1

I actually dislike Tomb, for the simple reason that trashing is often already a strong move, you don't need much extra incentive for it.

But now that I think about it, it is pretty funny with cards like Swindler, Thief/Brigand, Knights, etc.
Your Copper gets Swindled into a Curse, but you gain a free VP, hurray!

It does make Thief even worse.

You could also look at it differently: The landmark doesn't matter when you and your opponent open Chapel, but you'll have a lot more fun with your trade route/loan opening against a big money strategy that would have otherwise easily beat you. I think this is my favourite landmark of those five because it makes weak engines better.

For the same reason, I'm kind of sad about Battlefield. With no Alt-VP on the board, the big money player will get eight free VP or so, so it most likely ends in more simple mirrors.

I have no idea how wolf den will play out, I guess you'll probably get around it some way. The same applies to Tomb, I'm looking forward to getting more potions, though :)



Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Aleimon Thimble

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 662
  • Shuffle iT Username: Aleimon Thimble
  • Respect: +665
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2016, 04:02:42 am »
+1

I don't know if anyone has said this, but:

Combo: Miser and Fountain.
Logged
[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3323
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2016, 04:32:27 am »
+1

I don't know if anyone has said this, but:

Combo: Miser and Fountain.
This has been mentioned and is obvious, because the Fountain is like the Trevi Fountain, filled with Coppers.

Battlefield makes Duchy/Duke even more insane.
There's basically no way a simple Province player can beat it with Battlefield out.

And I wonder if I'll ever open Great Hall/Great Hall...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 04:43:38 am by Davio »
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

ben_king

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
  • formerly grsbmd
  • Respect: +522
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2016, 08:39:42 am »
0

What do you guys think some of the other Landmarks will be?
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3323
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2016, 08:45:11 am »
+6

I have this weird suspicion they will provide VP somehow.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

DoomYoshi

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
  • Respect: +42
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2016, 08:55:21 am »
0

I'm guessing there will be one for large and small deck sizes.
Logged

faust

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2039
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +2842
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2016, 09:21:23 am »
+1

I'm guessing there will be one for large and small deck sizes.

Gardens seems to cover large deck sizes, but one for small decks sounds good.

Maybe we even get some Curse interaction; like "+X VP if you have more Curses than any other player" could lead to interesting dynamics.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3323
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2016, 09:37:58 am »
+2

There might be ones for playing X Actions and/or Treasures in a single turn.
The Village idiot landmark! It's a Copper statue of an idiot.


Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #133 on: May 13, 2016, 09:43:41 am »
0

I have this weird suspicion they will provide VP somehow.
Necessarily?

There could be all sorts of other stuff, too: "If you do not gain a card on your turn, gain a Curse", or "Every turn, gain a copy of a card costing up to $4 you played that turn.", or...

(I'm not saying those specific ones are good ideas, just noting the spaces that are left for other kinds of Landmark.)
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2016, 09:44:32 am »
+1

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?
And what happens when you use Watchtower to put Nomad Camp on your deck?

And why do fools fall in love?

There may be a way to turn it into a more legitimate question... if you were to make a recommendation to Shuffle iT as to how a point counter option should be added to Dominion Online 2017, would you recommend that the point counter show an extra 15 points when Fountain is in the game and a player gets a 10th Copper?
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2016, 09:47:17 am »
+1

The Village idiot landmark!
Village Idiot: At the start of your Buy phase, discard one Treasure per unused Action you have (Action, not Action card).
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #136 on: May 13, 2016, 09:49:08 am »
+1

Is a Province worth 6 VP, or does it produce 6 VP when scoring?
And what happens when you use Watchtower to put Nomad Camp on your deck?

And why do fools fall in love?

I've experienced it matters when you have, for some reason, to quit mid-game and someone decides to count points anyway. Now I can respond there are no points to be counted unless the game is ended by prov/col/3-piles.

But a person can count the points listed on their Province no matter what you decide with that. And the meaning of those points in terms of "who won" is equally meaningless no matter if you decide Provinces are worth points already or only score at the end. The only difference is whether you get to say the meaningless sentence "My deck contained more points when the game ended". You still cannot follow that with "therefore I won". I mean, if I open Estate, Estate, and you start to build a huge Highway/Grand Market/King's Court/Witch type thing, can I just quit the game and then say "well my deck contained more points than yours, so I guess I win". Of course not. Unless the game goes until a full ending, there is no winner.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #137 on: May 13, 2016, 09:52:09 am »
+1

What do you guys think some of the other Landmarks will be?

Such discussion would be much better in the variants forum.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

mith

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +751
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #138 on: May 13, 2016, 12:48:50 pm »
0

We're going to be playing with a lot of landmarks/events on average after Empires.

Using the recommendation of a 2 event/landmark limit, the negative binomial approximation (how can Excel not have a built in negative hypergeometric distribution!), and assuming 47 total events/landmarks and 262 total kingdom cards (I'm not sure we know how many kingdom cards and events will be in Empires):

Chance of 0 events/landmarks: 19.2%
Chance of 1 events/landmarks: 29.2%
Chance of 2 events/landmarks: 51.6%

Now that we know we have 13 new Events, and based on the previous estimate of 24 new Kingdom cards (likely 9 Split and 1 Victory, to account for the art and total card count), we'll have 260 Kingdom, 34 Events, and 21 Landmarks. Without limiting to 2, I get:

Chance of 0 Events/Landmarks: 14.230%
Chance of 1 Events/Landmarks: 25.661%
Chance of 2 Events/Landmarks: 25.070%
Chance of 3 Events/Landmarks: 17.541%
Chance of 4 Events/Landmarks: 9.816%
Chance of 5 Events/Landmarks: 4.657%
Chance of 6 Events/Landmarks: 1.940%
Chance of 7 Events/Landmarks: 0.727%
Chance of 8 Events/Landmarks: 0.249%
Chance of 9 Events/Landmarks: 0.079%
Chance of 10 Events/Landmarks: 0.023%
Chance of 11 Events/Landmarks: 0.006%
Chance of 12 Events/Landmarks: 0.002%

Chance of 2+ Events/Landmarks: 60.109%
Chance of 4+ Events/Landmarks: 17.499%

A limit of 4 total and picking 0-4 as 20% each is actually not a bad approximation, if you don't feel like shuffling 315 cards...
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4894
  • Respect: +19930
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2016, 01:00:18 pm »
+6

There may be a way to turn it into a more legitimate question... if you were to make a recommendation to Shuffle iT as to how a point counter option should be added to Dominion Online 2017, would you recommend that the point counter show an extra 15 points when Fountain is in the game and a player gets a 10th Copper?
Well they're stand-out examples of the kind of serious player who demands a point counter. What do they want out of it? Man I'm not the one the point counter is for.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2016, 01:16:53 pm »
+2

Unless the game goes until a full ending, there is no winner.

And no loser!  Therefore, resign when you are behind. ;)
Logged

Minotaur

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1792
  • Respect: +3018
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2016, 01:18:07 pm »
0

Wolf Den is horrible with Knights.  Travelers are also a sore spot.  And ruins are going to be a real challenge.

It's an accounting nightmare generally.  With Masquerade, things could get pretty weird.
Logged
Storyteller/Crown is Donald's Vietnam Watergate.  Alchemy is Donald's Vietnam.  Scout is the time Donald choked on a pretzel.

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1739
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #142 on: May 13, 2016, 01:30:07 pm »
+1

Unless the game goes until a full ending, there is no winner.

And no loser!  Therefore, resign when you are behind. ;)

Resigning isn't in the rules I suppose, but it is certainly different than stopping because you ran out of time or something. I mean, the definition of resigning is "end a game by conceding defeat"

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #143 on: May 13, 2016, 01:49:26 pm »
+1

Unless the game goes until a full ending, there is no winner.

And no loser!  Therefore, resign when you are behind. ;)

Resigning isn't in the rules I suppose, but it is certainly different than stopping because you ran out of time or something. I mean, the definition of resigning is "end a game by conceding defeat"

You're right.  Slow play it is.
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1739
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #144 on: May 13, 2016, 01:50:33 pm »
+1

Unless the game goes until a full ending, there is no winner.

And no loser!  Therefore, resign when you are behind. ;)

Resigning isn't in the rules I suppose, but it is certainly different than stopping because you ran out of time or something. I mean, the definition of resigning is "end a game by conceding defeat"

You're right.  Slow play it is.

Fortunately, players who chose that option don't get invited back to game night. ;)

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1099
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1592
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #145 on: May 13, 2016, 01:56:55 pm »
0

My only concern with Landmarks is that I hope they don't reward bad play and hinder good play.  That is, I hope they don't act as a 'handicap'.  I've never liked such mechanics in strategy games.  Of course, they will change the definition of 'good play' and 'bad play'.  But I just hope it's not like, oh, you have the most curses? Here's some free VP for you then.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6447
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7800
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #146 on: May 13, 2016, 01:58:44 pm »
+1

My only concern with Landmarks is that I hope they don't reward bad play and hinder good play.  That is, I hope they don't act as a 'handicap'.  I've never liked such mechanics in strategy games.  Of course, they will change the definition of 'good play' and 'bad play'.  But I just hope it's not like, oh, you have the most curses? Here's some free VP for you then.

I think they might make it more difficult to discern what is good play and bad play.  Well, as you say I guess.  But they make things more complicated and once and a while someone will make errors and get lucky and still win.  But I'm guessing that will be offset by the skill level it takes to effectively use them, once people learn to use them.

If that makes any sense.
Logged

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #147 on: May 13, 2016, 02:00:45 pm »
+4

As for not using a randomizer app, (I'm Jewish), on saturday we don't use electronics (i.e phones)

Could you just use a phone app to make a big list of random kingdoms on Friday afternoon? Just throwing out ideas.
Logged

junkers

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 99
  • Respect: +95
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #148 on: May 14, 2016, 01:14:36 am »
+6

Not just more variations on Events, not just small objectives: fundamentally changing the way any given Kingdom might be approached. Beautiful.

Although I do find it hilarious that Doctors are going to be contributing so much to your VP through Tomb.
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Respect: +925
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #149 on: May 14, 2016, 09:52:56 am »
+1

As for not using a randomizer app, (I'm Jewish), on saturday we don't use electronics (i.e phones)
Sounds like the advent of smartphone-assisted boardgames has created a niche for a new kind of Shabbos goy. By my understanding, there's no objection to a goy working a Dominion randomizer, the One Night Ultimate Werewolf announcer, etc. and Jews enjoying the benefit of that, provided the goy is also playing the game.

A goy eager to play Dominion on the Sabbath with Jewish friends? Unheard of! (-8

(Um. And now I should probably make clear that, though I may have just read this article on the Sabbath, that was primarily out of my own curiosity rather than doing work on your behalf!)
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #150 on: May 25, 2016, 12:07:27 pm »
+2

So now I'll have to reprint so many fan cards with different names and art. Battlefield, fountain, tomb, castle, keep, farmer's market, and maybe even more. I'd be willing to post new versions if people wanted them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 02:30:56 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

mith

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +751
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #151 on: May 25, 2016, 01:15:10 pm »
+15

I propose adding "Hipster" to all fan card names which have later been released as official cards.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5451
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3393
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #152 on: May 25, 2016, 02:05:02 pm »
0

I propose adding "Hipster" to all fan card names which have later been released as official cards.

You made the card before it was cool.

Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • Respect: +433
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #153 on: May 25, 2016, 02:12:17 pm »
0

I have this weird suspicion they will provide VP somehow.
Necessarily?

There could be all sorts of other stuff, too: "If you do not gain a card on your turn, gain a Curse", or "Every turn, gain a copy of a card costing up to $4 you played that turn.", or...

(I'm not saying those specific ones are good ideas, just noting the spaces that are left for other kinds of Landmark.)

I mean, in the original post it says that they all involve scoring. The 'gain a Curse' one I guess is plausible.
Logged

ahyangyi

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #154 on: May 26, 2016, 02:19:02 am »
0

The new landmark cards remind me of Kingdom Builder. Cool.
Logged

Nflickner

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
  • Respect: +118
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #155 on: May 26, 2016, 01:35:38 pm »
+1

So now I'll have to reprint so many fan cards with different names and art. Battlefield, fountain, tomb, castle, keep, farmer's market, and maybe even more. I'd be willing to post new versions if people wanted them.

yes please post your new mock-ups in the variants forum.  I have much appreciated those you have redone in the past and will much appreciate new ones you post.  thanks  in advance :)
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #156 on: May 26, 2016, 05:38:33 pm »
0

So now I'll have to reprint so many fan cards with different names and art. Battlefield, fountain, tomb, castle, keep, farmer's market, and maybe even more. I'd be willing to post new versions if people wanted them.

yes please post your new mock-ups in the variants forum.  I have much appreciated those you have redone in the past and will much appreciate new ones you post.  thanks  in advance :)
So here's my plan of cards to redo. N means new name, A means new art, C means different cost, and E means new effect.
Fountain A, N
Sanatarium, C
Elixir, C
Escalation, E, C
Production Village, E
Cloister, C, E
Royal Demense, E
Book of Spells, E
Enchantment, C, E
Battle Strategy, E
Bartender, E
Cabal, E
Castle, N, A
Tomb, N
Forum, E
Crystal Ball, A

Sorry I can't do more, mobile post. :P

Edit: Finished some.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 12:02:29 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9138
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #157 on: May 26, 2016, 05:46:08 pm »
+1

It's Harbinger, not Harbringer.

Is my Crystal Ball art so bad? :P
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1525
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1585
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #158 on: May 26, 2016, 06:07:43 pm »
0

It's Harbinger, not Harbringer.
Oops.

Is my Crystal Ball art so bad? :P
It's just my preference. Part of it is the text is too bold, I'll fix that as well.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

mith

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +751
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #159 on: May 26, 2016, 07:14:33 pm »
+1

It's Harbinger, not Harbringer.
Oops.

Good news though - if there's ever an official Harbinger card, you're set!
Logged

MattTV

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #160 on: May 28, 2016, 11:53:02 am »
+3

I'm really liking the landmarks. They remind me of the first time i got into dominion and I was obsessed with the garden strategy cause it was so much deeper than just focusing on how your going to get the money to buy the most provinces. instead your trying to stall the game and figure out how your going to increase the size of your deck the fastest. And these add a whole bunch a dynamic strategies to the point where you may not have to race for the most provinces/colonies anymore, which is mostly of every game x). 
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1764
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #161 on: May 28, 2016, 12:34:15 pm »
+4

Does Wolf Den punish singletons because you have to create wolf packs to live in the den, or because going alone in the woods will get you killed?
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #162 on: May 28, 2016, 01:10:02 pm »
+2

Does Wolf Den punish singletons because you have to create wolf packs to live in the den, or because going alone in the woods will get you killed?

I always assumed it was the second one.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6967
  • Respect: +7794
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #163 on: May 28, 2016, 01:53:13 pm »
+4

Does Wolf Den punish singletons because you have to create wolf packs to live in the den, or because going alone in the woods will get you killed?

I always assumed it was the second one.

I had assumed the first. Wolves are known for travelling in packs; so the theme would be that your deck should be in packs as well.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Nflickner

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
  • Respect: +118
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #164 on: May 28, 2016, 02:51:40 pm »
+1

So now I'll have to reprint so many fan cards with different names and art. Battlefield, fountain, tomb, castle, keep, farmer's market, and maybe even more. I'd be willing to post new versions if people wanted them.

yes please post your new mock-ups in the variants forum.  I have much appreciated those you have redone in the past and will much appreciate new ones you post.  thanks  in advance :)
So here's my plan of cards to redo. N means new name, A means new art, C means different cost, and E means new effect.
Fountain A, N
Sanatarium, C
Elixir, C
Escalation, E, C
Production Village, E
Cloister, C, E
Royal Demense, E
Book of Spells, E
Enchantment, C, E
Battle Strategy, E
Bartender, E
Cabal, E
Castle, N, A
Tomb, N
Forum, E
Crystal Ball, A

Sorry I can't do more, mobile post. :P

Edit: Finished some.

thanks, I'm excited to see the finished products.  I noticed you said you have completed some, but I've only seen the one you posted on the "Asper's cards" thread (Redo of Fountain).  Are you planning on having all your redone cards on one thread so they are easier to find for those of us who appreciate them?  You could still give credit where credit is do, but it may be easier to find if they are also collected on a thread you start.  Just an idea.
Logged

Orange

  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 251
  • Shuffle iT Username: Orange
  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • Respect: +252
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #165 on: June 01, 2016, 11:17:31 pm »
0

Played a few games online with "proxy" landmarks, just tracking the scoring manually.  For a short recap, see my post in this thread:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15536.msg605686#msg605686
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2879
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3600
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #166 on: June 02, 2016, 01:18:29 pm »
0

Say, is Tomb +1 VP per card trashed, or is it just +1 VP when you trash a card?  (It's possible to trash more than one card at the same time.)
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9511
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #167 on: June 02, 2016, 01:35:20 pm »
+1

Say, is Tomb +1 VP per card trashed, or is it just +1 VP when you trash a card?  (It's possible to trash more than one card at the same time.)

Per card trashed.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7 [All]
 

Page created in 0.361 seconds with 20 queries.