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Author Topic: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks  (Read 22382 times)

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Donald X.

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Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 12:23:35 pm »
+42

At last, Landmarks. And five of them because why not. There are twenty-one of them so there are still plenty you haven't seen.



Landmarks are landscape-style like Events. You can shuffle them into the randomizer deck, and flip over cards until you have ten kingdom cards, using Events and Landmarks if they show up; if using this method I recommend having a max of two total Landmarks/Events. Or, you can shuffle Landmarks and Events into a separate randomizer deck and just always play with one or two of them. Or whatever else you think of; we like to leave that up to you.

Landmarks change the scoring for the game. Some just change it at the end; some use VP tokens to score during the game. You don't buy Landmarks like you do Events; they just sit there, telling you how you could be making points, if only.

Fountain is a simple one. At the end of the game, if you have 10+ Coppers, you get 15 VP. Bam. If you don't, you don't get anything; if you have 20+ Coppers, sorry, still just 15 VP. Okay? So, you decide: do you want the VP enough to have the Coppers? If you do, you probably don't want the extra Coppers until later, but you don't want to wait until it's too late. Sometimes you may even try to trash your starting Coppers and then buy them back later.

Battlefield is one of several Landmarks that gets 6 VP per player and then doles it out somehow in 2 VP increments. Battlefield gives it out with Victory cards; the first however many Victory cards are worth extra. Should you buy up Estates for the bonus VP, planning to immediately trash them? As usual, it depends on the board.

Wolf Den is a negative Landmark. At the end of the game, each lonely card dings you. For extra fun, pair with attacks that trash cards, or ways to hand out cards to other players. That first Duchy loses a little something.

Tomb works during the game but has no limit, beyond what you're able to trash. There's no guarantee that you can trash cards in a particular game, but that won't come up too often; it spices up trashers, Remodels, one-shots, and some other random cards like Hovel or Knights or Gladiator.

Keep is the area control Landmark. Each kind of Treasure is a little battle, including normal ones like Copper and special ones like Rocks. Whatever else you are doing this game, you would also like to win these battles.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 12:26:50 pm »
0

so, now i'm finally gonna take a piece of paper to every game. Just to write down how many of each card i have
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 12:28:46 pm »
+2

I expected Landmarks to be like Catan's Biggest Army or Longest Road. I like this very much.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 12:29:30 pm »
+3

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:35 pm »
+4

Total game-changer.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:40 pm »
+2

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 12:31:50 pm »
+7

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 12:33:54 pm »
+4

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?

I actually really like all of this art.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 12:36:48 pm »
+4

The VP swings for some of these are enormous. Completely different game when they're out.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2016, 12:38:01 pm »
0

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

What's wrong with Wolf Den?
It looks to classical. It's not bad art per se but compared to usual dominion art it doesn't fit. A lot of the previewed art looks to cartoony or not quality enough comapred to other cards.
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DLloyd09

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2016, 12:39:12 pm »
+4

Art Criticisms:
Battlefield and Wolf Den look horrendous. This expansion seems to be half great art and half horrible art IMO.
Fountain looks good, but it could have a little more focus on the fountain itself.
Tomb and Keep look AMAZING! Would have expected nothing less from their artists.

I'm sure it's just an image quality thing, but Battlefield looks like they're floating in the sky fighting, or standing on a cloud, because of how little of the ground you can see.

Anyway, yeah... this set shakes things up in so many interesting ways. Now I'm even more disappointed it's been delayed a week!
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2016, 12:40:49 pm »
+2

Landmarks: the thing we all thought would be part of Guilds, here at last!
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2016, 12:51:09 pm »
+3

These cards are nuts.

From the looks of things, these really change the game so much.

The trashing one looks to be my favorite, but that's probably because who doesn't like to trash cards.

lol at being encouraged to junk your deck with coppers.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2016, 12:54:03 pm »
0

Great card for casual (mediocre) players too! ( Me!) this can mix up the usual rush to Prov and give a player noticibly behind in that alternative ways to improve final VP score without super sophisticated strategy!
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2016, 12:54:55 pm »
0

These might be my favorite thing in Dominion yet. Events can shake up the game but it depends on the Kingdom and if there are synergies and even then a certain Event can usually just act like a one shot Action you get immediately. These seem like they have the potential to take basically any setup and inject different win conditions and strategies which changes how you view every other card. Genius.

Also, trying to keep track of the math in my head:

60 VP symbols reported from teasers
4 kingdom cards with VP tokens showing a total of 7 VP symbols + Donald reported 9 total kingdom cards with VP tokens = at least 12 VP symbols here
5 Landmarks shown with 6 VP symbols shown + 21 total Landmarks = at least 22 VP symbols here
City Quarter has a VP symbol in the art which I am counting

So so far 35 of the 60 VP symbols have been accounted for, meaning 25 VP symbols left to distribute among the remaining 5 kingdom cards, 16 landmarks and any other silly places they might show up.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2016, 12:55:10 pm »
0

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

There is no rules restriction on either number of events or the number of landmarks.
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yuma

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2016, 12:56:40 pm »
+3

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2016, 12:56:59 pm »
+2

so, now i'm finally gonna take a piece of paper to every game. Just to write down how many of each card i have

Not sure if intended to be serious, but this would be cheating (unless you all agreed to play by that house rule).
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2016, 12:57:55 pm »
0

I really like that they replace one or two of the events instead of adding on to them. It would be crazy if every game could have up to two of each. This is especially good since I always play with 2 events, so these plus the new events will spice that up a whole bunch.

There is no rules restriction on either number of events or the number of landmarks.

That's true, but I like the suggestion of having 0-2 from the pool of Landmarks and Events rather than having 0-2 of each.

GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2016, 12:58:36 pm »
+6

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 01:02:30 pm »
+9

One dull old Dominion puzzle has got a lot more interesting. What's the lowest possible winning score in a Dominion game?
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 01:03:32 pm »
0

So I am guessing that the "When scoring" clause will prevent any point tracking system from adding the number of points from these landmarks to your total until at the end of the game?

I don't see how.... the 6 VP from Province is also given "when scoring"... since the only things that care about your score at any time other than the end of the game are unofficial point counters, it seems reasonable that such point counters would track if you have 10 Coppers just like they would track how many Silvers you have for the purpose of Feodum.

I think that is a reasonable interpretation, but I can see it going either way.

Feodum says nothing about "when scoring"

Quote
Worth 1 VP for every 3 Silvers in your deck (rounded down)

So I can see the interpretation for Feodum meaning that it is constantly refreshed, but that for Landmarks it is a one time scoring moment (at the end of the game).
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 01:03:35 pm »
+6

I got to play Kingdom Builder last week, and man, this sure feels like Kingdom Builder. In a good way.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 01:04:54 pm »
+1

The design space of persistent global effects was open all this time. Now it's a reality. I'm happy with the variety we are seeing here. Of these Landmarks some want you to meet a condition at the end of the game, and within those there are some that care about the other players and others which do not. Then there are Landmarks that benefit you for actions taken in-game.

I'm starting to get overwhelmed here. So many different themes to juggle. I think an Empires-heavy kingdom will be all kinds of crazy.

Edit: Also wow 21 Landmarks! That's a lot!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:07:36 pm by markusin »
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 01:05:00 pm »
+2

Swindler and Wolf's den make for hilariously low scoring games.
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