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Author Topic: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress  (Read 28114 times)

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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 09:13:22 am »
+3

This can also let you get one-shots in play for HoP.

Polk5440

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 09:15:39 am »
+2

Durations really were the untapped potential of Dominion cards. The new Durations from Adventures and what we've seen in Empires really add a lot to the game without adding too much extra complexity.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2016, 09:19:26 am »
+7

Wow! This is easily the most intriguing card in the set so far for me: a genuinely novel yet simple attack I'm having to think about quite carefully.

Is this the first attack Moat can counter better if you don't React? (-8
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2016, 09:22:29 am »
0

Wow! This is easily the most intriguing card in the set so far for me: a genuinely novel yet simple attack I'm having to think about quite carefully.

Is this the first attack Moat can counter better if you don't React? (-8
Minion, if you want to get rid of your hand, then not reacting is better.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2016, 09:27:44 am »
+1

Minion, if you want to get rid of your hand, then not reacting is better.
Well, yes. Or any discard attack if you've got dross + draw_to_N.

But there are very few circumstances in which it's right to react to Enchantress with a Moat. Village, Moat and no other actions is the first that comes to mind.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2016, 09:34:02 am »
0

The funny thing about Enchantress is that it counters itself.  It also makes you think "I need to overbuy on everything, because one of my Actions in hand isn't going to be doing anything."
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 09:34:26 am »
+1

Ooooh this is super cool. I take it this doesn't affect duration effects from cards played on previous turns, but it would affect anything Princed?

Correct. It affects the first Action card you play in a turn, one way or the other. If you played no cards in your Action phase, it could even affect a Crown played in your Buy phase, come to think of it.

If you started with the Crown in your hand, then it's always better to play it in your action phase. Edge case that.

Of course it can happen if you hit it with Venture.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2016, 09:45:19 am »
0

Gosh. A reason to play Venture before your basic treasures, rather than as an afterthought. You don't want to draw Crown dead.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2016, 09:59:24 am »
0

Gosh. A reason to play Venture before your basic treasures, rather than as an afterthought. You don't want to draw Crown dead.
Simmilar thing with counterfiet,  if you want to double a treasure.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2016, 10:00:10 am »
+16

Funny interactions with Ruins. 
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2016, 10:04:26 am »
+3

Enchantress!

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:11:44 pm by E.Honda »
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2016, 10:04:31 am »
0

Gosh. A reason to play Venture before your basic treasures, rather than as an afterthought.
Counterfeit already gave you that reason.

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 10:12:47 am »
0

Ooooh this is super cool. I take it this doesn't affect duration effects from cards played on previous turns, but it would affect anything Princed?

Correct. It affects the first Action card you play in a turn, one way or the other. If you played no cards in your Action phase, it could even affect a Crown played in your Buy phase, come to think of it.

If you started with the Crown in your hand, then it's always better to play it in your action phase. Edge case that.

Of course it can happen if you hit it with Venture.

I don't know, I think I'd be more likely to crown a Gold than a Chapel or Remake.

So Enchantress, I really like the theme relation to Circe. And maybe the Thor comic series?

The effect seems pretty devastating early on. I feel it's presence makes it more enticing to open double Steward or double Swindler in cases where I might otherwise only open with one, rather than trying to resist the effect by say getting more Silver. It's so important to play key cards that you should be overbuying them against Enchantress rather than getting your only copy of your power card countered.

I feel like Adventures provides good ways to get high action density early to protect against this (plus the events and tokens are unaffected). Stonemason is a great defense too. Looking at Empires, Enchantress seems very powerful against debt cards. Suddenly that early Royal Blacksmith which led to having $8 in debt doesn't sound so good when it can get enchanted on the next shuffle.
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 10:15:56 am »
+1

Ooooh this is super cool. I take it this doesn't affect duration effects from cards played on previous turns, but it would affect anything Princed?

Correct. It affects the first Action card you play in a turn, one way or the other. If you played no cards in your Action phase, it could even affect a Crown played in your Buy phase, come to think of it.

If you started with the Crown in your hand, then it's always better to play it in your action phase. Edge case that.

Of course it can happen if you hit it with Venture.

Just edge cased it myself. If you play it in your buy phase and buy a Villa, then it didn't use an action, so you can play more action cards later in that turn.
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ConMan

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 10:16:55 am »
0

A preview posted before I woke up!?  Land sakes!
In my case, it was posted before I went to bed, so that worked out well for me too!
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faust

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 10:19:39 am »
0

Many cheaper attacks are either pretty weak (Fortune Teller, Spy) or really strong (Ambassador, Swindler). I think Enchantress finds a very good balance here; it will be pretty strong on some boards, but ignorable on others.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 10:22:55 am »
0

Gosh. A reason to play Venture before your basic treasures, rather than as an afterthought.
Counterfeit already gave you that reason.
Read the post 3 posts before this.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2016, 10:29:20 am »
+2

Gosh. A reason to play Venture before your basic treasures, rather than as an afterthought.
Counterfeit already gave you that reason.
Read the post 3 posts before this.
You know, the weirdest thing happened. You'd never be able to imagine it. It was a cross-post!

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2016, 10:34:42 am »
0

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?
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polot38

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2016, 10:38:10 am »
0

I feel like one of the biggest impacts of this is against big money decks, which usually rely on one or two strong actions in their deck to really boost them. All of a sudden, with an engine playing an enchantress every turn, the big money player has to collide 2 actions to do anything, which can be really difficult.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2016, 10:39:51 am »
0

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

Huh, I'm not sure. I guess it only matters if you want to play Band of Misfits as a card that has Adventures tokens on its pile.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2016, 10:41:42 am »
+2

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

My guess would be that you play the thing you select with BoM, and then that Action's text gets replaced by +1 Action, +1 Card.  That's going by the 'you never played BoM, you played that other thing instead' explanation of how BoM works.

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

Huh, I'm not sure. I guess it only matters if you want to play Band of Misfits as a card that has Adventures tokens on its pile.

Matters for below-the-line stuff.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2016, 10:46:40 am »
0

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

Huh, I'm not sure. I guess it only matters if you want to play Band of Misfits as a card that has Adventures tokens on its pile.

Matters for below-the-line stuff.

Right, of course. Good call.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2016, 10:47:06 am »
+2

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

Huh, I'm not sure. I guess it only matters if you want to play Band of Misfits as a card that has Adventures tokens on its pile.

So here is another bizarre ruling interaction question.

I think there was a semi-recent ruling that says Conspirator would count both BoM and the Action it became as played. Following from that, if you get to pick to resolve BoM's on play effect first, then choose a card, it would no longer be your first action played when you get to resolving the card you picked.

That however seems totally contrary to how you would expect things to work, so I assume that will not be the ruling.

It seems to me that Enchantress is higher priority here. It says that you get +1 card/action instead of what is on the card, and the stuff on the card is what lets BoM do its thing.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 11:28:00 am by Deadlock39 »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2016, 10:47:22 am »
+3

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?

My guess would be that you play the thing you select with BoM, and then that Action's text gets replaced by +1 Action, +1 Card.  That's going by the 'you never played BoM, you played that other thing instead' explanation of how BoM works.

The "you never played BoM" rule has been changed as a result of rules questions around getting token bonuses. The current rule is that you DID play BoM, as well as the card that it plays... so it counts for 2 cards played for Conspirator.
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