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Author Topic: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress  (Read 34647 times)

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Watno

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #150 on: May 15, 2016, 11:26:17 am »
+1

Maybe I'm crazy but does anyone else think that ruins might be a counter for enchantress?

Marauder and Cultist will be a lot worse if you also have Enchantress, but I doubt you'll want to actually get Ruins yourself against Enchantress. You can usually get another cheap action thats better if it doesn't meet Enchantress instead.
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Davio

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #151 on: May 15, 2016, 12:07:50 pm »
+1

Maybe I'm crazy but does anyone else think that ruins might be a counter for enchantress?
Well, I wouldn't voluntarily gain Ruinses to counter Enchantress; most of the time you have a dud hand and no Enchantress is played. That sucks.
It is fun though to actually have a Ruins in hand when Enchantress is played.

And man, it just keeps getting better for Scout! Enchantress makes your Scout even better!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 12:08:51 pm by Davio »
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Jeebus

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #152 on: May 15, 2016, 12:45:37 pm »
0

Fortunately, multiple Enchantress attacks do not stack.

I guess you're responding to me. Saying that it doesn't "stack" is very different from saying that it gives a huge benefit to the other players. I just read that as "it has no further effect".

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #153 on: May 15, 2016, 12:51:49 pm »
0

I don't think this has been mentioned. If you Throne Enchantress, it seems to give the other players +2 cards +2 actions for their first action card! Then you draw 4 cards.

Surely you know, deep within your heart, that if you are instructed to do X instead of Y, and you weren't doing Y anyway because something else replaced it already, you don't do X.

EDIT: I see now. Yeah, you're correct, it doesn't stack at all.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 12:57:03 pm by singletee »
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2016, 01:07:43 pm »
+6

Throne / Enchantress does not give other players +2 Cards +2 Actions for their first Action played.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #155 on: May 15, 2016, 02:05:59 pm »
+1

Fortunately, multiple Enchantress attacks do not stack.

I guess you're responding to me. Saying that it doesn't "stack" is very different from saying that it gives a huge benefit to the other players. I just read that as "it has no further effect".

Throned Enchantress sets up two future effects that will each modify what resolving the first action card per turn (by an affected player) will actually do.  When a player plays his first action, both future effects simultaneously try to make that modification.  They are applied one after the other (you can pick an order, but it doesn't matter).  The first one changes the resolution to "+1 Card, +1 Action"; the second one changes it to that again.
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Watno

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #156 on: May 15, 2016, 02:11:58 pm »
+2

Throned Enchantress sets up two future effects that will each modify what resolving the first action card per turn (by an affected player) will actually do.  When a player plays his first action, both future effects simultaneously try to make that modification.  They are applied one after the other (you can pick an order, but it doesn't matter).  The first one changes the resolution to "+1 Card, +1 Action"; the second one changes it to that again.

Warning: The following is completely irrelevant discussion of technicalities:
I don't think the effect is changed twice. Enchantress says you get +card/+1 action instead of following the instructions. Since you wouldn't follow the instructions due to the first Enchantress,
the second Enchantress' effect whiffs.
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Jeebus

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #157 on: May 15, 2016, 02:43:14 pm »
0

Yeah, Watno is correct. I knew it didn't change the ability, but rather told you to do something else and not do the ability. But I didn't think about the significance of "instead" meaning that you can't do something else unless you were already doing the first thing. (I mean, given "do as much as you can" it's not entirely clear without a ruling. I assume it's mentioned in the rulebook.)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 02:47:01 pm by Jeebus »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #158 on: May 15, 2016, 04:54:08 pm »
+4

It's like revealing a Trader multiple times for the same gain and expecting to gain all the Silvers.
Kind of.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #159 on: June 07, 2016, 04:03:01 pm »
0

Forget if this has been asked yet - does the Enchantress effect apply to extra turns other players take, such as via Outpost? Or just to the very first Action they play after you play Enchantress?
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #160 on: June 07, 2016, 04:21:01 pm »
+1

Forget if this has been asked yet - does the Enchantress effect apply to extra turns other players take, such as via Outpost? Or just to the very first Action they play after you play Enchantress?

Extra turns are also "their turns", so it applies. (I think it has been asked here.)

dbclick

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #161 on: June 07, 2016, 04:36:19 pm »
+4

Forget if this has been asked yet - does the Enchantress effect apply to extra turns other players take, such as via Outpost? Or just to the very first Action they play after you play Enchantress?

Extra turns are also "their turns", so it applies. (I think it has been asked here.)

I'm guessing Enchantress affects the first Action opponents play on each of their turns?  So if they take extra turns, the first Action they play on each of them becomes a cantrip?

Correct.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #162 on: June 07, 2016, 07:58:45 pm »
0

Forget if this has been asked yet - does the Enchantress effect apply to extra turns other players take, such as via Outpost? Or just to the very first Action they play after you play Enchantress?

Extra turns are also "their turns", so it applies. (I think it has been asked here.)

I'm guessing Enchantress affects the first Action opponents play on each of their turns?  So if they take extra turns, the first Action they play on each of them becomes a cantrip?

Correct.

Wow, I'm absent-minded.
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AJD

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #163 on: June 15, 2016, 02:54:52 am »
+1

So, Enchantress looks like a sui-generis attack with a really oddball effect, but I just realized it's really just part of the Spy/Rabble family: it makes you miss using one of your good cards this shuffle.

I feel like the White Witch when she realized Aslan was really just a big cat under all that hair.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #164 on: June 15, 2016, 03:16:19 am »
+2

So, Enchantress looks like a sui-generis attack with a really oddball effect, but I just realized it's really just part of the Spy/Rabble family: it makes you miss using one of your good cards this shuffle.

I feel like the White Witch when she realized Aslan was really just a big cat under all that hair.

I think it would be better compared to a discard attack, since it neutralizes a card in hand rather than from the top of the deck.  In many ways, the attack is effectively: "Each other player discards an action card from their hand, then draws 1 card".  Of course there are some differences, e.g. Enchantress isn't stackable, the "discarded" card also can't be drawn again, accountability is built in without anybody revealing their hands.
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AJD

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #165 on: June 18, 2016, 12:52:13 am »
0

So, which Actions are totally immune to Enchantress? Highway, Groundskeeper, Great Hall—any I'm missing?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #166 on: June 18, 2016, 12:56:15 am »
+1

So, which Actions are totally immune to Enchantress? Highway, Groundskeeper, Great Hall—any I'm missing?

Page.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #167 on: June 18, 2016, 02:58:47 am »
+1

So, which Actions are totally immune to Enchantress? Highway, Groundskeeper, Great Hall—any I'm missing?

Page.

Conspirator -- not immune, but in general I think Enchantress would help a deck with Conspirator more than it would hurt.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #168 on: June 18, 2016, 10:13:17 am »
0

So, which Actions are totally immune to Enchantress? Highway, Groundskeeper, Great Hall—any I'm missing?

Page.

Conspirator -- not immune, but in general I think Enchantress would help a deck with Conspirator more than it would hurt.

There are a few that don't really mind too much, either: Goons, Peasant, Princess, Haggler, Merchant Guild, Bridge Troll.  It can also be pretty nice to hold on to your Encampment if you don't have a Gold/Plunder in hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #169 on: June 18, 2016, 11:12:32 am »
+4

So, which Actions are totally immune to Enchantress? Highway, Groundskeeper, Great Hall—any I'm missing?

Ruined Library and Ruined Village. Unless you're getting into the extreme edge cases where an extra card or an extra action can hurt.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #170 on: June 18, 2016, 11:30:37 am »
+2

Moat is totally immune to Enchantress, not only in trivial the sense that it confers immunity, but that if you have a Moat in hand you want to be Enchanted, because that gives you the choice between +2 Cards and +1 Card, +1 Action.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #171 on: June 18, 2016, 10:32:24 pm »
0

Moat is totally immune to Enchantress, not only in trivial the sense that it confers immunity, but that if you have a Moat in hand you want to be Enchanted, because that gives you the choice between +2 Cards and +1 Card, +1 Action.

Not necessarily. If your hand is Village and Moat, then without enchantress, you could have a Laboratory if you want.
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #172 on: June 18, 2016, 10:33:29 pm »
0

Enchantress makes Rebuild slightly worse.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #173 on: June 19, 2016, 12:06:58 am »
+2

Moat is totally immune to Enchantress, not only in trivial the sense that it confers immunity, but that if you have a Moat in hand you want to be Enchanted, because that gives you the choice between +2 Cards and +1 Card, +1 Action.

Not necessarily. If your hand is Village and Moat, then without enchantress, you could have a Laboratory if you want.

I think he is just saying that your opponent playing Enchantress improves your position if you have Moat in hand because you can chose to reveal or not based on your hand.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 10:37:11 am by Deadlock39 »
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #4: Enchantress
« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2016, 06:56:15 am »
0

Enchantress makes Rebuild slightly worse.

Whaaat? If the Engine plays Enchantress every turn, Rebuild is slightly worse than ultimate bm!
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