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Author Topic: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market  (Read 19827 times)

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amoffett11

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2016, 08:55:19 pm »
+3

I was going to chime in on the format of this teaser also, but I guess that's been done.  I also prefer the strategy to come out of the discussion, and not this large infodump.  Maybe a hint or two here or there, but not quite this.  Let people have a chance to play with the cards before telling them how to play them.  And ya, you can just not read it, but I guess you don't know to not read it until you've read it, and you can't read what's not written (and in this case I think it's a bit much). 
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Nflickner

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2016, 09:12:56 pm »
+1

I was going to chime in on the format of this teaser also, but I guess that's been done.  I also prefer the strategy to come out of the discussion, and not this large infodump.  Maybe a hint or two here or there, but not quite this.  Let people have a chance to play with the cards before telling them how to play them.  And ya, you can just not read it, but I guess you don't know to not read it until you've read it, and you can't read what's not written (and in this case I think it's a bit much).
I disagree--I like the poster having a long monologue about what he thinks of the card. 
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pacovf

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2016, 09:16:58 pm »
+3

Gotta say I dislike putting long strategy articles into previews. Leave that stuff for us to figure out in our own time, man. (Yeah, yeah, Adam won't read this, but I'm too lazy to make a reddit account just to tell him.)

He'll still read this, he just won't post here out of protest / a weird sense of pride about the whole drama explosion. In this case, with it being an official preview or whatever, it's more annoying than anything else.

Hey, if I'm wrong, he'll never read this comment, right?

But if you are right you are basically trolling him, and that's not very nice.

I hope the secret histories will go into those other versions, and why you settled on 5!

Now you are just teasing Awaclus.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2016, 09:19:05 pm »
0

I hope the secret histories will go into those other versions, and why you settled on 5!

Now you are just teasing Awaclus.

Can you explain this joke?  I'm seriously blanking right now...
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pacovf

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2016, 09:22:45 pm »
+9

...120 plays was rejected quickly after everybody started calling Farmer's Market "the snitch".
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2016, 02:20:19 am »
+6

I also like the more in-depth strategic advice by the previewer. It's refreshing to see actual interesting strategy advice since we usually just talk about weird edge cases that only Stef has to worry about while implementing and otherwise never matters.
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Titandrake

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 02:36:58 am »
+13

I also like the more in-depth strategic advice by the previewer. It's refreshing to see actual interesting strategy advice since we usually just talk about weird edge cases that only Stef has to worry about while implementing and otherwise never matters.

Let me briefly explain why I don't.

Cards can only be new once. Part of the fun with Preview threads is that we have no clue how good or bad the revealed cards are. Go back to the Cornucopia previews from the main blog, it's really funny to read people's first reactions. It doesn't matter how good you are, it's very hard to hit the power level correctly until you play with it for real.

Except, by "we" I mean the people who haven't gotten to playtest Empires. When a playtester is giving strategy advice on a card, they're probably saying something correct because they got to play with the cards already. That ruins the fun. There's no surprise. I thought one of the revealed cards was going to be pretty good, then I read a Reddit comment from a playtester that said "no this card is pretty bad", and now I'm sad because I didn't get to discover that for myself.

If you want accurate strategic advice, it's best to wait until the set gets released. Preview threads are for wild speculation, rules questions, etc.

(If you're going to say I don't have to read it, I actually didn't read it, but now I'm have to avoid the top half of the first page because it's an information hazard.)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 02:49:15 am by Titandrake »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2016, 02:58:39 am »
+5

Even if a play tester believes a card is weak that doesn't always make them right. There are many cases where cards are later on discovered to be stronger than believed at first. I'm finding the more I play with Adventures, the harder it really is to gauge the true power level of the card until you've played with it A LOT.

But, anyway, I do see your point. It's nice to work things out on your own. But, even reading this site and reading play testers comments has not taken away my enjoyment from Adventures. I am still very much buying the cards and making "bad decisions" just to find out if it really is a "bad decisions" and if the card really does work the way I think it works. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised and learn something new about the card, and other times my rating tanks because I'm doing silly things.

So, even reading play tester comments, I know for a fact that I will explore Empires cards on my own and try to work them out for myself. I will though keep in mind what other people say, but their beliefs will not be what ultimately formulates my opinion about said cards.
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xyz123

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2016, 03:06:14 am »
0

The thing that sticks out to me is that it says 4 or more VP on the Farmer's Market pile, yet the card itself does not provide a way of having more than 4 VP on it. Does this mean there is a card or event that allows you to put tokens on other cards, or is it just Donald future-proofing the card and not closing off this design space for future expansions?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2016, 03:21:28 am »
0

...120 plays was rejected quickly after everybody started calling Farmer's Market "the snitch".

Well I get this one, but I still don't see how it was teasing Awaclus...  :-\

(Edit: Wait, I got it.  That gets me every time.)

The thing that sticks out to me is that it says 4 or more VP on the Farmer's Market pile, yet the card itself does not provide a way of having more than 4 VP on it. Does this mean there is a card or event that allows you to put tokens on other cards, or is it just Donald future-proofing the card and not closing off this design space for future expansions?

Future-proofing, or maybe it's something else in Empires.  Adam actually mentions it in his write-up, saying that for now he doesn't know of a way to do it, but maybe he's not counting anything that hasn't been revealed.  It was also answered twice on page 1 of this thread. :P
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 03:39:12 am by eHalcyon »
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2016, 03:23:42 am »
0

I agree with Beyond Awesome, this strategy advice is beyond awesome.

It was from Adam, right? Man, I miss that guy. :(
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2016, 04:05:12 am »
0

I agree with Beyond Awesome, this strategy advice is beyond awesome.

It was from Adam, right? Man, I miss that guy. :(
Really good advice about it- I think it's interesting, and not necessarily spoiler-y, since lots of people would make the connection to e.g. Monument pretty quickly.
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Davio

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 04:27:28 am »
0

Just KC Farmer's Market and then call 2 Royal Carriages on it. :)
Which gives you $10 + 4VP + 5 Buys

Doing the same with Monument gives you $10 + 5 VP + 0 Buys


So you get 1 less VP and a lot of Buys with so many plays overall.
The good thing is that you can get away with just playing it once or twice for bigger bonuses if you time it right.
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pst

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 05:13:07 am »
0

Does this mean there is a card or event that allows you to put tokens on other cards, or is it just Donald future-proofing the card and not closing off this design space for future expansions?

Not necessarily, but there should be some reason there is a card type Gathering. That could be a card putting VP tokens on or taking VP tokens from any such card.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 05:14:24 am by pst »
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Awaclus

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 06:38:55 am »
+2

I doubt there will be a card that interacts with Gatherings unless that card somehow makes sure that there is a Gathering available in the game. There are so many cards in the game at this point, it wouldn't really be very useful to have cards explicitly interact with a card type that's introduced now and isn't probably even that common in Empires. My guess is that a card specifically avoids interacting with Gatherings instead.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 07:30:47 am »
+8

I'm not judging types of previews one way or another, but I went with a Donald x style preview because the audience for these also includes casual players who don't care about strategy that much, and as titan implied, the community will figure the cards out anyway. The response here indicates that readers are divided on this, so clearly there is room for both types of preview.
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markusin

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 08:06:45 am »
+1

The best compromise would be for the previewer to put their detailed thoughts on the strategic considerations of a new card in spoiler blocks. Using the actual spoiler tags would be overkill and inelegant in my opinion, but a simple warning should suffice.

In my mind, Adam is likely just scratching the surface with these thoughts. I didn't find his thoughts be too long. Even if it was his intention to be thorough, the perspective of one person can only understand so much. If he really did cover almost everything, then there just wasn't much to talk about in the first place with the card and the massive depth of exploration space on this card was illusory.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:08:21 am by markusin »
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Watno

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2016, 08:11:53 am »
+1

I doubt there will be a card that interacts with Gatherings unless that card somehow makes sure that there is a Gathering available in the game. There are so many cards in the game at this point, it wouldn't really be very useful to have cards explicitly interact with a card type that's introduced now and isn't probably even that common in Empires. My guess is that a card specifically avoids interacting with Gatherings instead.

I guess it might put VP tokens on non-gatehring piles somehow.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2016, 09:10:09 am »
+1

My main objection to this preview is that it's, well... not as entertaining or interesting as the others.

Whether that's through the inclusion of reams of dry (and, at first glance, meandering rather than incisive) strategy analysis, or some other reason... dunno.
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wachsmuth

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2016, 09:14:51 am »
+2

My main objection to this preview is that it's, well... not as entertaining or interesting as the others.

Whether that's through the inclusion of reams of dry (and, at first glance, meandering rather than incisive) strategy analysis, or some other reason... dunno.

I think one factor is that the card just isn't that exciting. It is pretty unique, but even in the uniqueness, it's *just* a Woodcutter/Monument mashup with some weird player interaction. I am personally far more excited by getting to play with Enchantress, Catapult and Chariot Race, and well, honestly all the other previewed cards than this one.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2016, 09:23:32 am »
0

I think one factor is that the card just isn't that exciting.
At first glance, I'd tend to agree. I'll have to try it, but right now I'm not "getting" the Gathering mechanic.

But at least one playtester must have had some enthusiasm for this card or it wouldn't have made the set, let alone the previews. If that's not Adam Horton, couldn't we have had a preview by them instead?
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Elestan

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2016, 09:34:31 am »
0

I'll have to try it, but right now I'm not "getting" the Gathering mechanic.

Temple has this weird word "Gathering" on the bottom, I should say something there. Well uh. It groups together a few cards that put VP on their piles, and lets another card refer to them (in a "let's not mess this up" way).

It's probably safe to infer from this that the purpose of "Gathering" is probably not going to be evident until we see the "another card" DXV refers to.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2016, 09:39:13 am »
+2

The best thing about this card is that it continues the trend of Ryan Laukat illustrating something from every single Dominion product.
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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2016, 09:56:22 am »
+2

I just don't read long walls of text. I need more pictures

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #3: Farmers' Market
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2016, 09:58:45 am »
0

The art for this features a disappointing lack of waxed mustaches and NPR totebags.

Also, what's in the foreground?  Is that white thing cauliflower?
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