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Author Topic: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens  (Read 34621 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2016, 04:02:22 pm »
+3

If the Temple pile is empty, you still continue adding VP tokens to it, right?  But there's no way to get those tokens without Ambassador shenanigans (or something unrevealed)?
Yes.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2016, 04:05:03 pm »
+4

I was under the impression that the art was made on demand; in some cases artists already have a piece that fits?
I'm under the impression that it's all on-demand, but if an artist used an old piece I wouldn't necessarily know.

Some artists do not care much about anachronisms, and I don't always manage to get them fixed, but in the past players have never cared at all. They care way more about how much they like the art style.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2016, 04:05:51 pm »
+3

I was under the impression that the art was made on demand; in some cases artists already have a piece that fits?
I'm under the impression that it's all on-demand, but if an artist used an old piece I wouldn't necessarily know.

Some artists do not care much about anachronisms, and I don't always manage to get them fixed, but in the past players have never cared at all. They care way more about how much they like the art style.

I like this style.  If it was an Empire of t-shirts, so be it.
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pacovf

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2016, 04:29:53 pm »
0

Groundskeeper is to Goons what Highway is to Bridge: easier to add to your deck, but harder to exploit. Goons giving an extra buy and working on 0$ cards is huge.

Up until now, Bustling Village is my favourite revealed card.
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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2016, 04:31:27 pm »
0

Man, Scrying Pool/Chariot Race seems crazy strong. You can put a Copper on top of your opponent's deck, draw all your Chariot Races, and get lots of VP. Just take care not to draw your deck.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2016, 04:43:51 pm »
0

Finally! More cards that use VP tokens! Not just slightly more, but WAY more: at least 9, not counting Events and Landmarks that may involve them. Loving it. <3

Groundskeeper is interesting: if it's weak, it's horrible, but if it's strong, it's insane. Kind of a do-or-die card. Looks especially ridiculous in megaturn engines; get 5 of them in play, buy all the leftover Provinces (like 4) and an Estate or something, and get 25 VP tokens on top of everything.

Temple is very cool as well. It's another way to just straight-up gain those VP tokens, but you have to trash at least one card. It looks good as an early-game trasher too, on par with Steward and Amulet, but sometimes you need to be careful with it because your opponent might grab a pile of VP tokens from the supply. Of course, you can trash Temple to Temple, which kinda solves the collision issues...

Chariot Race kind of reminds me of Baron from Love Letter (not Baron from Dominion) with a touch of Tournament. Otherwise, it's a pretty nice cantrip, one of the better cheap cantrips. Almost makes Great Hall obsolete.
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2016, 05:08:51 pm »
0

Yes, he's wearing glasses. Are glasses a Roman thing?
No, but Wikipedia says 1286. So it's fine for the mediaeval theme. Or would be if those weren't modern frames...
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2016, 05:12:14 pm »
0

Chariot Race kind of reminds me of Baron from Love Letter
Baron. That's... um... Duck of Doom, right? :-p

(I prefer Munchkin Loot Letter - far less soppy and heteronormative.)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2016, 05:17:27 pm »
0

Yes, he's wearing glasses. Are glasses a Roman thing?
No, but Wikipedia says 1286. So it's fine for the mediaeval theme. Or would be if those weren't modern frames...

Another Temporum crossover! Alayna is killing it! :))
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2016, 05:29:37 pm »
+1

Hmm. I remember thinking the clothing and make-up on the Duchess looked a little more modern-Renaissance-fair than authentic. Seems that's also by her!
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buckyball

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2016, 05:31:54 pm »
+1

If the Temple pile is empty, you still continue adding VP tokens to it, right?  But there's no way to get those tokens without Ambassador shenanigans (or something unrevealed)?

How about Graverobber and Rogue? Ambassador Temple would be in favor of your left-hand-side opponent.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2016, 05:36:08 pm »
0

If the Temple pile is empty, you still continue adding VP tokens to it, right?  But there's no way to get those tokens without Ambassador shenanigans (or something unrevealed)?

How about Graverobber and Rogue? Ambassador Temple would be in favor of your left-hand-side opponent.

You are right, gaining from the trash still works for this.  And yeah, Amb-Temple isn't necessarily a good idea, but I was just thinking about ways to access those VP. :P
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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2016, 05:44:32 pm »
0

I feel like I'm going to really like Temple. It's got everything I remember liking about Bishop from my early days of Dominion (trashing while building up VP) without the downside of letting other people trash. Of course it does have the thing of building up the jackpot, but that's just another element to add to the game.

jsh357

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2016, 05:47:21 pm »
0

I am so happy Temple made it in the final set. Originally, it was looking like it might get cut for being too automatic, but then Donald added the Gathering mechanic, which helped balance things out. It's a really fun trasher to play with, both for mind games and general trashing needs.
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pacovf

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2016, 05:49:56 pm »
+1

I have a feeling the bidding is going to be related to a gathering card.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2016, 05:57:31 pm »
0

I have a feeling the bidding is going to be related to a gathering card.

Oh, that's a good idea.

Landmark-Gathering, at the start of each turn you either add a VP tokn to the Landmark or you take all the VP tokens plus twice as many debt tokens.  It's a game of chicken since the debt doesn't hurt if you take it on the last turn.

There's no way this idea is balanced as it is, but I'm posting it in case the real thing is similar. :P
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2016, 06:01:44 pm »
+2

With Temple, you're going to wish you drew all three of the Shelters with it.
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math

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2016, 06:04:48 pm »
+2

With Temple, you're going to wish you drew all three of the Shelters with it.

I would rather draw it with only two the first time, so I can trash three cards now and two later, similar to how you return Coppers with Ambassador when you have one Estate in hand.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2016, 06:29:20 pm »
0

If the Temple pile is empty, you still continue adding VP tokens to it, right?  But there's no way to get those tokens without Ambassador shenanigans (or something unrevealed)?

How about Graverobber and Rogue? Ambassador Temple would be in favor of your left-hand-side opponent.

You are right, gaining from the trash still works for this.  And yeah, Amb-Temple isn't necessarily a good idea, but I was just thinking about ways to access those VP. :P

If you get Temple from the Black Market, is there still a Temple pile to put tokens onto (so you can later grab them by trashing Temple and gaining it with a Graverobber)? I remember the "Travellers" didn't have a pile to return to if they came out of the Black Market, so I'm guessing Black Market Gatherings don't work very well either.
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2016, 06:33:16 pm »
0

If you get Temple from the Black Market, is there still a Temple pile to put tokens onto (so you can later grab them by trashing Temple and gaining it with a Graverobber)? I remember the "Travellers" didn't have a pile to return to if they came out of the Black Market, so I'm guessing Black Market Gatherings don't work very well either.

No. But you do get trashing and +1 VP still.

The trashing isn't optional, so you won't be able to play Temple forever either.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2016, 06:44:40 pm »
0

If you get Temple from the Black Market, is there still a Temple pile to put tokens onto (so you can later grab them by trashing Temple and gaining it with a Graverobber)? I remember the "Travellers" didn't have a pile to return to if they came out of the Black Market, so I'm guessing Black Market Gatherings don't work very well either.

No. But you do get trashing and +1 VP still.

The trashing isn't optional, so you won't be able to play Temple forever either.

The +1 VP isn't conditional on the trashing, so you can.
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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2016, 06:48:41 pm »
0

I find it somewhat strange that Gathering cards have their own type (I don't feel like they really need to), while split piles don't have their own type and it seems as though they would benefit much more from this (because you could have a single setup rule instead of having it on each randomizer). Is there any particular reasoning behind this?
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Watno

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2016, 06:52:35 pm »
+1

Donald said there is another card referencing Gatherings
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2016, 06:53:07 pm »
+1

I find it somewhat strange that Gathering cards have their own type (I don't feel like they really need to), while split piles don't have their own type and it seems as though they would benefit much more from this (because you could have a single setup rule instead of having it on each randomizer). Is there any particular reasoning behind this?

Temple has this weird word "Gathering" on the bottom, I should say something there. Well uh. It groups together a few cards that put VP on their piles, and lets another card refer to them (in a "let's not mess this up" way). So that's that.
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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2016, 06:56:40 pm »
+1

Reading preview text is far more skippable than people think.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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