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Author Topic: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens  (Read 25328 times)

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Donald X.

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Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« on: May 11, 2016, 12:24:11 pm »
+35

One major theme of Empires is VP tokens and well here is some of that. VP tokens appeared in Prosperity, originally just on Monument, but on Bishop and Goons too by the time the set was released. They haven't been used since because well you have to include the tokens. But we included the tokens so we were set. In fact there are three denominations of tokens this time: 1 VP, 2 VP, and 5 VP. The 2 VP ones are the same size as 1 VP but a different color; the 5 VP ones are bigger. That was what we could manage so that's what we did.



Groundskeeper is pretty basic; all VP cards you gain under her watch come with extra VP. That applies to both bought and otherwise gained cards, which can sometimes be exciting. They're cumulative; you can play a line of four Groundskeepers, buy an Estate and get +4 VP.

Temple is more exotic. The basic function of the card both gives you VP and puts VP on the pile - sitting right there on the Temples. And then someone buying a Temple takes that VP. So playing Temple is a VP now for you, and a VP later for someone, could be you or someone else. Temple has this weird word "Gathering" on the bottom, I should say something there. Well uh. It groups together a few cards that put VP on their piles, and lets another card refer to them (in a "let's not mess this up" way). So that's that.

Chariot Race is a funny one. You get a card (the one you reveal) and an Action no matter what; you also get +$1 and +1 VP if your card is costlier than theirs. Their card is the same all turn usually, so after the first Chariot Race you will know what your other Chariot Races are up against.

There was a lot you could do with VP tokens, and I did a lot with them. Nine of the kingdom card piles use them, and then there are all those Landmarks and Events. But those stories are for another day. Well more specifically, tomorrow and the next day, and then later when the Secret History goes up.
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LaLight

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 12:27:04 pm »
+11

Play sea hag
Play chariot race x times
???
PROFIT

Edit: Spy gets much more better
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 12:28:42 pm by LaLight »
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Wins: M87, M85, M92, M99, M107, RMM37, RMM39, RMM44, RMM45, BM24, M86, M94, M95, M100, ZM24
Losses: M88, M90, RMM38, NM8, NM9, M97, M106, RMM46, RMM48, ZM23, NM10, M115, RMM49, M108
Draws: RMM40
MVPs: RMM39, RMM44
Mod/Co-mod: RMM37, M89, M93, M91, M96, RMM41, M98, M101, M102, M104, M105, M109

tastor

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 12:28:26 pm »
+2

There was a lot you could do with VP tokens, and I did a lot with them. Nine of the kingdom card piles use them, and then there are all those Landmarks and Events.

Holy smokes that is a ton of VP tokens!  :o
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LaLight

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 12:31:25 pm »
0

There was a lot you could do with VP tokens, and I did a lot with them. Nine of the kingdom card piles use them, and then there are all those Landmarks and Events.

Holy smokes that is a ton of VP tokens!  :o

On these three cards we see only 5 vp symbols. We were promised 60. So there's really soooo much more
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Wins: M87, M85, M92, M99, M107, RMM37, RMM39, RMM44, RMM45, BM24, M86, M94, M95, M100, ZM24
Losses: M88, M90, RMM38, NM8, NM9, M97, M106, RMM46, RMM48, ZM23, NM10, M115, RMM49, M108
Draws: RMM40
MVPs: RMM39, RMM44
Mod/Co-mod: RMM37, M89, M93, M91, M96, RMM41, M98, M101, M102, M104, M105, M109

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 12:31:37 pm »
+2

Wow, Groundskeeper is a good card. Yes, it's expensive, and you don't want it early, but it's a fantastic card in engines, and can help you win in pileouts involving Estates!

Temple has some interesting mind games going on, but is not a very good card to pursue by itself, only a complimentary engine piece I would think.

Chariot Race is like Tribute, swingy, but should be better since it won't kill your turn like Tribute does, not to mention it's cheaper.
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timchen

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 12:34:37 pm »
0

Groundskeeper is sort of the most exciting alt-vp card in a while! The other 2 card seems marginal on their own, but with some enablers they can be quite interesting.
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 12:35:50 pm »
+5

The art has really improved so far :) That's the most important observation, right?

tastor

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 12:37:47 pm »
0

On these three cards we see only 5 vp symbols. We were promised 60. So there's really soooo much more

Yeah, presumably each "Gathering" card has 3-ish symbols (one for any VP it might gain itself, one referring to where it places VP tokens and another to clarify that you gain the VP tokens when buying that pile). And then the events and landmarks. So yeah 55 more symbols, that's...wow.
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 12:40:10 pm »
+1

Is it just me, or is Temple slightly darker in color than normal Actions?
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 12:40:22 pm »
0

Temple is nearly as good as Chapel, the VP thing is just a bonus.

Is the marginally different background color on Temple intended?
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LaLight

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 12:40:49 pm »
+2

Chariot Race is my favourite preview card so far. It reminds me of Menagerie (my favourite Dominion card). It can be cantrip, but when it's not, it's SO WOW
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Wins: M87, M85, M92, M99, M107, RMM37, RMM39, RMM44, RMM45, BM24, M86, M94, M95, M100, ZM24
Losses: M88, M90, RMM38, NM8, NM9, M97, M106, RMM46, RMM48, ZM23, NM10, M115, RMM49, M108
Draws: RMM40
MVPs: RMM39, RMM44
Mod/Co-mod: RMM37, M89, M93, M91, M96, RMM41, M98, M101, M102, M104, M105, M109

Ankenaut

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 12:41:08 pm »
0

Can you say how many of each VP token denomination come with Empires?
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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 12:41:48 pm »
0

I wonder if there will be Gathering cards that use Debt tokens. Nope, read it wrong.

Groundskeeper seems kind of weak. Chariot Race has a fun interaction with Spy, not so much Scrying Pool.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 02:35:28 pm by J Reggie »
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timchen

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 12:45:49 pm »
+2

Temple is nearly as good as Chapel, the VP thing is just a bonus.

Is the marginally different background color on Temple intended?
I think it is quite a bit weaker. It can at most trash 1 estate and 1 copper, and the other card you bought in case they collide.
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 12:47:27 pm »
+1

Play sea hag
Play chariot race x times
???
PROFIT

Edit: Spy gets much more better

You'll still need to trash your Coppers if you want this to be good. :)
You lose in case of ties.

Groundskeeper seems kind of weak.

Quite the opposite to me, actually. Being "Goons - revised edition" doesn't mean it's not bonkers.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2016, 12:48:01 pm »
0

Temple is nearly as good as Chapel, the VP thing is just a bonus.

Is the marginally different background color on Temple intended?

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zporiri

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2016, 12:50:27 pm »
0

Temple is nearly as good as Chapel, the VP thing is just a bonus.

I disagree. The power of chapel comes from trashing 4 cards in turn 3 or 4. Even when you hit chapel on turn 5 it can be devasting, that's how strong the power of trashing 4 cards on turn 3 or 4 can be. With Temple, best case you can trash 2 cards on turn 3 or 4, which is a huge difference. Not saying it's a bad card, but it's strength will certainly be different than chapel's IMO.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2016, 12:57:02 pm »
0

Temple is nearly as good as Chapel, the VP thing is just a bonus.

I disagree. The power of chapel comes from trashing 4 cards in turn 3 or 4. Even when you hit chapel on turn 5 it can be devasting, that's how strong the power of trashing 4 cards on turn 3 or 4 can be. With Temple, best case you can trash 2 cards on turn 3 or 4, which is a huge difference. Not saying it's a bad card, but it's strength will certainly be different than chapel's IMO.

Is this why 'differently named' was introduced, to prevent it from being more powerful?  Or do we have to wait for a Secret History for this type of question?
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2016, 01:01:34 pm »
+11

All it takes is one teeny weeny cost reduction and you can use Inheritance on Groundskeeper.

That would be absurd.
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2016, 01:01:55 pm »
0

Chariot Race is my favourite preview card so far. It reminds me of Menagerie (my favourite Dominion card). It can be cantrip, but when it's not, it's SO WOW

I was thinking that $3 was too cheap but this way, when it hits another Chariot Race, you don't win as often as you would if it cost $4 or $5.  Nice card.
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2016, 01:04:17 pm »
0

In fact there are three denominations of tokens this time: 1 VP, 2 VP, and 5 VP. The 2 VP ones are the same size as 1 VP but a different color; the 5 VP ones are bigger. That was what we could manage so that's what we did.
How do the sizes and colours compare with Prosperity?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2016, 01:04:32 pm »
0

All it takes is one teeny weeny cost reduction and you can use Inheritance on Groundskeeper.

That would be absurd.

And the Groundskeepers of the Estates rose up to overthrow an Empire.
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Sniffnoy

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2016, 01:06:10 pm »
+10

That groundskeeper is, uh, surprisingly modern-looking...
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2016, 01:06:40 pm »
+2

The art has really improved so far :) That's the most important observation, right?
Yes, this is nice artwork!

It's bugging me a little that the Groundskeeper's t-shirt looks anachronistic, though.
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Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2016, 01:07:54 pm »
+1

My initial thought on Groundskeeper is that this is a mega-turn/engine card. $5 is a lot to spend on a card that is a cantrip if you don't buy a victory. If you can get an engine where you play 5 of these a turn, buy a victory card get 5 vp tokens. Then next turn draw your deck again and trash that vp card and buy another for 5 more VP tokens. You don't even need a lot of money in your deck. A small deck with a lot of groundskeepers, a silver and a trasher can get lots of victory points every turn.
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