Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11  All

Author Topic: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown  (Read 37523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5262
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #200 on: May 17, 2016, 02:19:22 pm »
0

Herbalist becomes a Scheme!

Due to the difference in Herbalist's and Scheme's wording, Herbalist can topdeck a Crown doubling a Duration, whereas a Scheme cannot.
Luckily we already accepted that a Duration could still be doubled without the doubled card having to be attached to it.

In fact, I think it would have probably been easier from the get-go to just use little tokens to remind you that you TR-ed or KC-ed a Duration instead of leaving them attached.

Well, one could probably argue that discarding the TR would be inconsistent with the general rule that a card stays in play until the last turn it does something.

JW

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1347
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #201 on: May 17, 2016, 02:21:46 pm »
0

  • Mint can copy it!

Hero can also gain it!

A negative interaction is that you can hit it with Loan instead of trashing a Copper.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 05:54:28 pm by JW »
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7069
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9780
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #202 on: May 17, 2016, 02:25:35 pm »
0

A negative interaction is that you can flip it with Loan.

Well you can flip Throne Room with Loan too, for what that's worth. :P But yeah, Loan would stop on Crown, whereas it bypasses Throne Room.
Logged

J Reggie

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1121
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #203 on: May 17, 2016, 02:25:48 pm »
+7

Probably someone's mentioned this, but it also affects Alms.

chipperMDW

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 290
  • Respect: +629
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #204 on: May 17, 2016, 02:42:05 pm »
+2

Herbalist becomes a Scheme!

Due to the difference in Herbalist's and Scheme's wording, Herbalist can topdeck a Crown doubling a Duration, whereas a Scheme cannot.
Luckily we already accepted that a Duration could still be doubled without the doubled card having to be attached to it.

In fact, I think it would have probably been easier from the get-go to just use little tokens to remind you that you TR-ed or KC-ed a Duration instead of leaving them attached.

Well, one could probably argue that discarding the TR would be inconsistent with the general rule that a card stays in play until the last turn it does something.

That rule is specific to durations, though. That's why Possession doesn't stay out.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5262
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #205 on: May 17, 2016, 03:00:18 pm »
0

Herbalist becomes a Scheme!

Due to the difference in Herbalist's and Scheme's wording, Herbalist can topdeck a Crown doubling a Duration, whereas a Scheme cannot.
Luckily we already accepted that a Duration could still be doubled without the doubled card having to be attached to it.

In fact, I think it would have probably been easier from the get-go to just use little tokens to remind you that you TR-ed or KC-ed a Duration instead of leaving them attached.

Well, one could probably argue that discarding the TR would be inconsistent with the general rule that a card stays in play until the last turn it does something.

That rule is specific to durations, though. That's why Possession doesn't stay out.

Um. Yeah. I remember making the same point before, and someone else mentioning Possession to disprove me. I remember it... Now.

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1234
  • Respect: +1321
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #206 on: May 17, 2016, 05:34:25 pm »
0

In fact, I think it would have probably been easier from the get-go to just use little tokens to remind you that you TR-ed or KC-ed a Duration instead of leaving them attached.
I idly pondered that a few years ago.

In certain restricted senses, the really correct thing to do would be to have a non-supply pile of "Duration Effect" cards corresponding to each Duration. So Wharf says "Now and at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards, +1 Buy. Take a Wharf Duration Effect card to remind you."If you Throne it, you take two Duration Effect cards; in any case, the Wharf itself gets cleaned up along with everything else. That's completely immune to confusions even in corner cases like the Wharf getting trashed from play.

But that's verbose, and involves moving more cardboard around, and printing extra cards, and the behaviour isn't backwards-compatible with what we have now, and... and...
Logged

Infthitbox

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
  • Respect: +439
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #207 on: May 17, 2016, 05:42:31 pm »
+1

In fact, I think it would have probably been easier from the get-go to just use little tokens to remind you that you TR-ed or KC-ed a Duration instead of leaving them attached.
I idly pondered that a few years ago.

In certain restricted senses, the really correct thing to do would be to have a non-supply pile of "Duration Effect" cards corresponding to each Duration. So Wharf says "Now and at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards, +1 Buy. Take a Wharf Duration Effect card to remind you."If you Throne it, you take two Duration Effect cards; in any case, the Wharf itself gets cleaned up along with everything else. That's completely immune to confusions even in corner cases like the Wharf getting trashed from play.

But that's verbose, and involves moving more cardboard around, and printing extra cards, and the behaviour isn't backwards-compatible with what we have now, and... and...

Wharf certainly doesn't need this buff. The fact that Durations miss shuffles controls their power level to some extent. Some of them would be insane if this is how they worked.
Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1234
  • Respect: +1321
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #208 on: May 17, 2016, 07:18:43 pm »
0

the behaviour isn't backwards-compatible with what we have now
I said that.

If Durations worked that way, they'd have to have different abilities and/or prices. You couldn't just proxy up some "Duration Effect" cards and play that way, expecting it to be balanced.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3325
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #209 on: May 18, 2016, 03:37:07 am »
0

I might make a house rule for this, just use VP tokens or Coin tokens or Trade Route tokens or Embargo tokens to denote the number of times you played your Durations.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

dane-m

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
  • Shuffle iT Username: dane-m
  • Respect: +140
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #210 on: May 18, 2016, 04:01:58 am »
0

I might make a house rule for this, just use VP tokens or Coin tokens or Trade Route tokens or Embargo tokens to denote the number of times you played your Durations.
This would of course have a small effect on the power of TR, KC, etc by releasing them in to the discard pile more rapidly when used with a Duration card.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3325
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #211 on: May 18, 2016, 05:21:32 am »
0

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it effects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Haddock

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Shuffle iT Username: Haddock
  • Doc Cod
  • Respect: +553
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #212 on: May 18, 2016, 06:42:03 am »
+1

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3325
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #213 on: May 18, 2016, 06:47:34 am »
+7

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

junkers

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 99
  • Respect: +98
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #214 on: May 18, 2016, 07:08:35 am »
0

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!
Quite right - Provinces don't try half as much.
Logged

clb

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 424
  • Respect: +182
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #215 on: May 18, 2016, 02:54:43 pm »
0

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!

Your probably write mower often then many native speakers.

That sentence hurt just writing it!
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5590
  • Respect: +3603
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #216 on: May 18, 2016, 03:44:45 pm »
+1

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!

How much VP are Americans worth?
Logged
3/4ths retired

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1526
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1462
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #217 on: May 18, 2016, 04:13:08 pm »
+10

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!

How much VP are Americans worth?

A Brazilian
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 884
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1250
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #218 on: May 18, 2016, 04:53:26 pm »
0

is this card better or worse if the action and treasure effects are reversed
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
6-9
he/him
beloved my john, i'll carry on

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7069
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9780
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #219 on: May 18, 2016, 04:56:21 pm »
0

is this card better or worse if the action and treasure effects are reversed

Much worse, from both a design standpoint and a power standpoint.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8001
  • Respect: +8795
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #220 on: May 18, 2016, 05:44:18 pm »
0

is this card better or worse if the action and treasure effects are reversed

Much worse, from both a design standpoint and a power standpoint.

Definitely. From a power standpoint... playing your treasures in the action phase instead of the buy phase is a little strong; but only when you have a way to take advantage of it (Tactician and Library mostly). Playing your actions in the buy phase though is way weaker, because additional action granted by non-terminals are wasted; and the cards you draw from drawers will go to waste if they are actions.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
  • Respect: +1094
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #221 on: May 19, 2016, 05:52:57 pm »
+8

(I mean, just Villa is incredibly intense)

As someone who really prioritizes accessibility, I intentionally played a game using Villa with someone new to Dominion. No issues. If you don't have 5+ years of being trained to think "Dominion works this way" only to then have that broken, it's very easy to learn these new "complex" things from scratch.
Logged

Haddock

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Shuffle iT Username: Haddock
  • Doc Cod
  • Respect: +553
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #222 on: May 20, 2016, 06:41:54 am »
+1

Yes, I know, but the beauty of Dominion is that it affects each player equally.
So we all get to benefit from our overpowered TRs/KCs!
Ftfy
Not a native speaker, but we try, us Duchies!
Sorry, I only just saw this.
Yeah, I think I did know that.  I'm just an asshat.  Sorry. :(  <hangs head in shame>
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Willvon

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 181
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #223 on: May 20, 2016, 10:21:29 am »
+16

I hadn't checked these threads for a couple of days. So I missed some of the controversy, but I just want to add my enthusiastic support for previews. Probably my favorite thing about a new expansion is the Previews. Obviously I look forward to playing with the cards. However, Previews generate that excitement I feel when I have an unexpected present that I now get to unwrap and reveal.

I can't really explain why, but last week, I was checking every chance I got on either my phone or tablet to see the new cards and comments about them.  I was reading each preview to my wife with a big smile on my face and both of us laughing over Donald X's comments about the cards.  She kept shaking her head at this little boy I had become who was so excited to be opening a new present every day. As far as I am concerned, I would be content to see every card previewed so that the excitement would last longer and we could get specific information about each card from the designer or those he has permitted to represent him in the previews. (I realize this is way too much work, but please don't kill a man for dreaming.). By the way, after the first day of previews, she asked me why I hadn't ordered it yet, which I have since remedied.

If there are any future Dominion expansions as has been suggested, then please give us the previews, Donald. It will be one of the highlights of my year anytime it happens.

Logged

Eran of Arcadia

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
  • Respect: +488
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #224 on: May 20, 2016, 01:35:18 pm »
+2

As someone who really prioritizes accessibility, I intentionally played a game using Villa with someone new to Dominion. No issues. If you don't have 5+ years of being trained to think "Dominion works this way" only to then have that broken, it's very easy to learn these new "complex" things from scratch.

I've been thinking about that - Villa seems crazy to me, but would it to someone who hasn't been thinking "ABC" for years? Is it any more complicated than some of the cards were when I played Glory to Rome for the first time a few weeks ago?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11  All
 

Page created in 0.088 seconds with 26 queries.