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Author Topic: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown  (Read 34283 times)

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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2016, 02:05:47 pm »
+2

Interesting fact:  Unlike any other Throne Room variant (including Counterfeit), Crown-in-buy-phase gives the exact same effect whether you Crown a Crown or play two Crowns separately.
Not true.

Crown on Crown then Bank and Bank gives you $2 more to spend than Crown on Bank then Crown on Bank.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2016, 02:07:09 pm »
0

There are more kingdom actions than treasures.  Yeah there will be times when you really want to double a treasure, but I still think doubling actions will be the priority most often.
More Actions than Treasures in the game doesn't mean more Actions than Treasures in the kingdom you're playing, which in turn doesn't mean more Actions than Treasures in your deck.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2016, 02:08:53 pm »
+6

Here's an interesting question, if you Crown a treasure, can you call back Royal Carriage to play the Crown again and double another treasure?  My hunch is that you should be able to.

You can.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2016, 02:50:08 pm »
0

There are more kingdom actions than treasures.  Yeah there will be times when you really want to double a treasure, but I still think doubling actions will be the priority most often.
More Actions than Treasures in the game doesn't mean more Actions than Treasures in the kingdom you're playing, which in turn doesn't mean more Actions than Treasures in your deck.

That's why I've said "usually" and "more often".
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Davio

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2016, 02:56:48 pm »
+4

I love the art on this one, the lighting on the velvet pillow is very well done.

I also like the concept; you know all those times when you drew a Throne Room dead?
Well, no more of that! As long as you have some stray Treasures.

And obviously, it's better if you have valuable Treasures so it isn't just an extra Copper but a Silver+.

It somehow seems good for hybrid strategies and I like hybrid strategies that aren't clear cut engines nor clear cut money games.
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King Leon

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2016, 04:48:02 pm »
0

Crown works well in Terminal Draw Big Money. It can crown your Wharf/Envoy/Council Room. But when you draw Crown without any action card or by the effect of a terminal action card, you can still use it as a cheap Gold or an expensive Silver.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2016, 04:59:30 pm »
+7

Yeah, I don't want to be in a game with this and Black Market.

I sure as hell don't want to be the guy programming the edge cases.  And yet I suspect Stef and SCSN already have it done.

My secret sources tell me they do, along with Villa.

I really want to beta test their program.

Join the club.
He wants to, didn't he just say that?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2016, 11:30:44 am »
+2

Hey ADK, post something in this thread so I can give you a +1!
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Elanchana

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2016, 01:01:28 pm »
0

Clarification question. When you play Crown in your action phase, does it still count as a treasure that can be topdecked with Mandarin?
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Elestan

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2016, 01:06:23 pm »
+3

Clarification question. When you play Crown in your action phase, does it still count as a treasure that can be topdecked with Mandarin?

Yes.
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jonts26

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2016, 01:07:15 pm »
+2

Clarification question. When you play Crown in your action phase, does it still count as a treasure that can be topdecked with Mandarin?

It's still a treasure, regardless of how you put it in play. So yes.
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dane-m

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2016, 01:08:28 pm »
+7

Clarification question. When you play Crown in your action phase, does it still count as a treasure that can be topdecked with Mandarin?
Yes.  This question cropped up somewhere else (can't remember where).  The important thing to remember is that Crown is always an Action and a Treasure as far as card types are concerned.  Its effect changes depending on the phase it's played in, but its type does not (though I think a lot of players are going to make the error of thinking in terms of playing it 'as a Treasure' or 'as an Action').

OK, so two people have beaten me to the answer, but only because I went for a longer explanation!
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jonts26

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2016, 01:11:27 pm »
+9

OK, so two people have beaten me to the answer, but only because I went for a longer explanation!

Brevity is the soul of not getting ninja'd on an Internet forum.
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Elestan

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2016, 01:12:24 pm »
+1

OK, so two people have beaten me to the answer, but only because I went for a longer explanation!

Brevity is the soul of not getting ninja'd on an Internet forum.

Indeed.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2016, 01:26:26 pm »
+14

Hey ADK, post something in this thread so I can give you a +1!

Dominion? Isn't that just a boring version of Ascension?
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2016, 02:07:55 pm »
+8

The game i fell in love with is gone...

Oh no, what happened to your cards? Did someone steal them?
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Asper

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2016, 05:26:47 pm »
+2

The game i fell in love with is gone...

Oh no, what happened to your cards? Did someone steal them?

I'll explain it, and you may think of it as a joke, making it funnier. Of all the previews, Landmarks, Enchantress and Events were the only ones i like. This is not the game i fell in love with anymore. Apparently we reached the point where rules confusion has been accepted as a necessity, and even though Donald more or less insists on it, i simply think that's not the case. I made a pseudo-Treasure-Action years ago, and still think it's the better solution to use the Reaction type over Treasure. And could he really not make Debt without introducing a third currency? Seriously? This is the man who made Treasury, Stash, and many other cards that found clever solutions to avoid unnecessary complexity. Now i feel he doesn't bother anymore, and Dominion approaches becoming one of those boardgames that simply hardcode stuff because it's to weird to get right on your own. I'm very disappointed. And i'm fine if you disagree with me, but if nothing unexpected happens, Empires will be the first Dominion set i skip.

Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2016, 05:32:36 pm »
+3

The game i fell in love with is gone...

Oh no, what happened to your cards? Did someone steal them?

I'll explain it, and you may think of it as a joke, making it funnier. Of all the previews, Landmarks, Enchantress and Events were the only ones i like. This is not the game i fell in love with anymore. Apparently we reached the point where rules confusion has been accepted as a necessity, and even though Donald more or less insists on it, i simply think that's not the case. I made a pseudo-Treasure-Action years ago, and still think it's the better solution to use the Reaction type over Treasure. And could he really not make Debt without introducing a third currency? Seriously? This is the man who made Treasury, Stash, and many other cards that found clever solutions to avoid unnecessary complexity. Now i feel he doesn't bother anymore, and Dominion approaches becoming one of those boardgames that simply hardcode stuff because it's to weird to get right on your own. I'm very disappointed. And i'm fine if you disagree with me, but if nothing unexpected happens, Empires will be the first Dominion set i skip.

Seems a little arbitrary where the 'unnecessarily complex' line is drawn.  I guess I can see where you're coming from, though.  Back when I played Magic in high school, I got a little sick of a new mechanic being introduced every expansion, and I stopped playing around Alliances/Mirage/Visions.

I think a lot of these new cards in Empires look really creative, though.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2016, 05:37:34 pm »
+6

Dominion has evolved. That's for sure. Is it a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.

As for the complexity of Crown, with the exception of edge cases, the card is straightforward. I think most new players would get it right away.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 05:39:02 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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flaquito

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2016, 05:48:22 pm »
+1

The game i fell in love with is gone...

Oh no, what happened to your cards? Did someone steal them?

I'll explain it, and you may think of it as a joke, making it funnier. Of all the previews, Landmarks, Enchantress and Events were the only ones i like. This is not the game i fell in love with anymore. Apparently we reached the point where rules confusion has been accepted as a necessity, and even though Donald more or less insists on it, i simply think that's not the case. I made a pseudo-Treasure-Action years ago, and still think it's the better solution to use the Reaction type over Treasure. And could he really not make Debt without introducing a third currency? Seriously? This is the man who made Treasury, Stash, and many other cards that found clever solutions to avoid unnecessary complexity. Now i feel he doesn't bother anymore, and Dominion approaches becoming one of those boardgames that simply hardcode stuff because it's to weird to get right on your own. I'm very disappointed. And i'm fine if you disagree with me, but if nothing unexpected happens, Empires will be the first Dominion set i skip.

Obviously we'll see what Donald says in the rules, but so far it's easiest for me to not think of debt as a new "currency." However, for the purposes of cards-that-care-about-card-cost, it needs a way to be handled. And the way that makes the most sense is debt=debt, and not debt=coins.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2016, 05:56:47 pm »
+3

And could he really not make Debt without introducing a third currency?

I don't want to get into too much Secret History stuff, but Debt went through a lot of different versions and this was in fact the one that worked the best.
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Moneymodel

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2016, 06:02:05 pm »
+3

Guys.

Crowning Capital is a thing.

It's a really good thing.
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crj

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2016, 06:31:00 pm »
0

Seems a little arbitrary where the 'unnecessarily complex' line is drawn.
It's all subjective, sure.

This expansion has a lot of awesome stuff in it, but it's also the first (I arrived around the same time as Hinterlands) new thing I've encountered where some bits have made me go "hmm...".

I'll try all of Empires - those bits might turn out to be awesome as well - but I sense we're in danger of reaching a point where Dominion is turning into Magic: The Gathering. For now, I very much like the fact it isn't M:tG.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2016, 06:39:03 pm »
0

Sometimes, I feel like Dominion has become as complex as Magic.
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