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Author Topic: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles  (Read 33949 times)

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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2016, 04:54:12 pm »
+4

Fun fact: with enough Ambassadors and patience, you can reorder split piles any way you like.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2016, 05:00:53 pm »
+3

Thanks, I am only 90% convinced though. It was surely an option to just have Inheritance not be usable on action card piles that hold multiple different cards. But the more such piles that exist or will exist, the less appealing that resolution becomes. So I'm still wondering if their future existence was an influence.

Well then it sounds to me like you are fishing for information that belongs in the Secret History. Nice try, bucko! I'm on to you!
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2016, 05:08:36 pm »
+5

Thanks, I am only 90% convinced though. It was surely an option to just have Inheritance not be usable on action card piles that hold multiple different cards. But the more such piles that exist or will exist, the less appealing that resolution becomes. So I'm still wondering if their future existence was an influence.
LF playtested both sets; in fact he's credited as head playtester in the Empires rulebook. If you're only giving him 90% credibility, I guess you are just a 90% credibility kind of guy.
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cactus

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2016, 05:22:43 pm »
+2

Anybody else hate the gladiator/fortune art?
Well ... they can't all be the best card art ...

*ducks*

eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2016, 05:23:09 pm »
+7

I kind of wish Fortune said "2" instead of "x2".
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Ankenaut

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2016, 05:37:18 pm »
+3

Is it just me, or is the text on these cards impeccably centered?
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SevenSpirits

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2016, 05:37:41 pm »
0

LF playtested both sets; in fact he's credited as head playtester in the Empires rulebook. If you're only giving him 90% credibility, I guess you are just a 90% credibility kind of guy.

I thought I gave him quite a lot of credibility given that he didn't directly answer my question, the sly bastard. But you're on to me, I am a 90% credibility kind of guy.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 11:59:59 am by SevenSpirits »
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markusin

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2016, 05:42:32 pm »
0

What I like about the split pile cards here is that the bottom card has synergy with the top cards in their respective piles. If that wasn't the case, you would have situations like with Cities and Knights where the players are hoping someone else helps empty the pile(s) for you.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2016, 07:27:39 am »
0

Training lets you put your +$1 token on the Catapult/Rocks pile (and then both cards give +$1), and so on.

Am I right assuming that you can only do this if the top card of the pile is Catapult?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2016, 09:59:14 am »
+1

Training lets you put your +$1 token on the Catapult/Rocks pile (and then both cards give +$1), and so on.

Am I right assuming that you can only do this if the top card of the pile is Catapult?

No, even after Rocks is uncovered, it's still an Action pile (and not a Treasure pile), so you can still put your tokens on it. And you can also do so once the pile is empty, of course.
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AJD

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2016, 10:33:00 am »
+4

I kind of wish Fortune said "2" instead of "x2".

Curse already says "-1" instead of "1", so it's kind of a lost cause.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2016, 10:35:34 am »
+3

I remember predicting there would be something which gave +3 actions. My first post on these forums, actually.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 11:48:16 am by McGarnacle »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2016, 11:27:05 am »
0

I kind of wish Fortune said "2" instead of "x2".

Curse already says "-1" instead of "1", so it's kind of a lost cause.

Just when we were giving all this font praise.

What a jip; I'm not even going to buy the set now.
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Joseph2302

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2016, 11:41:26 am »
0

I remember predicting their there would be something which gave +3 actions. My first post on these forums, actually.
FTFY
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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2016, 11:43:46 am »
+15

Fortune may be the new best thing to gain with a Hero.

McGarnacle

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2016, 11:51:24 am »
0

I remember predicting their there would be something which gave +3 actions. My first post on these forums, actually.
FTFY

Thanks, fixed  :-[.
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ced

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2016, 12:02:35 pm »
0

First thing that jumps out with split piles is that each individual card will usually be unevenly split between the two players. Losing a split 3-2 is not commonly going to be a big deal, most likely - but may be significant for pile control if a particular split-pile card is the only +buy on the board.

Gladiator is simple at a glance. I think I guessed in the teasers thread that supply trashing might turn a terminal silver into a terminal gold, but I wouldn't have seen the player interaction aspect coming. Seems a little difficult to get this off early, especially with the terminal-ness making it hard to reveal other actions. I suspect that you usually only want the one of these, maybe getting a second if you need the Fortune and your opponent ignores it. Gladiator BM might be reasonable on Shelter boards, if that ever comes up.
Fortune seems absurd. $16 is a massive price, of course, but you can buy it from having just $8. Assuming you have the one Gladiator and are drawing your deck, this takes your money payload from $8 to $14 to $22 over a couple of turns. Amazing if the tools to control your deck are there. I imagine there's going to be some gameplay with Gladiator reveals in order to get the first Fortune buy. Perhaps you intentionally don't reveal a card you have so as to mill down to one Gladiator left, for example. Hey, it has +buy too. Perhaps you just get three Fortunes to their two to maintain pile control. Would be an amusing game that comes down to that.

Settlers is a Peddler variant. Always a cantrip, sometimes it hits a copper and you're happier. Kind of sucks that it has a 7/12 chance of whiffing on the first shuffle - you have to let your deck grow a little more for it to be good. Sort of Counting House with less opportunity cost, but going to be nice in bigger decks.
Bustling Village is potentially a lot of value. It can be +2 cards, +3 actions, +$1. This is one where I think you want the 3-2 Settler split to go your way - it's difficult to connect even the first Bustling with only two Settlers. On its own it is a double Village, which is probably valued in the awkward $4.5 spot. You could always force the issue on both cards with some sifting - Sage is particularly cool.

Catapult will slow games to a crawl. It's a slow trasher to begin with (terminal, one card at a time, very little economic benefit to you), then on top of that it offers a two-pronged attack while also discouraging trashing your real junk i.e. curses and estates. Catapult games might start similarly to Ambassador games - you throw stuff at each other while struggling to find the time to build. Two is a nice number of these to have, but you can always chuck the third catapult at the other guy for the curse. Silvers are obviously the best fuel for this card, and it works great with anything that can continually supply them.
Rocks, fortunately, are filled with Silver. One Rock is three doubly-activated Catapults, and that's a big deal. Not to mention trashing the Rock is an immediate economic boost. It may be hard to find the time to buy the third Catapult and uncover the Rocks, perhaps when you're sure the other guy can't hit 4 next turn.

I like these cards a lot more than yesterday's previews. Those debt cards were mostly self-explanatory, while these cards are interesting, offering decisions and interaction.
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2016, 12:36:23 pm »
0

I kind of wish Fortune said "2" instead of "x2".
Curse already says "-1" instead of "1", so it's kind of a lost cause.
Argh!

I was going to say that, for some reason the /x bugged me more, but I went and looked at a Curse to check.

Now that bugs me, too. )-8

On the other hand we're not supposed to like Curses. Treasure is one of the finest cards in the game.
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2016, 12:39:46 pm »
+1

Do NOT Google "busty villager" when image searching to make a FYP "bustier/busier" joke
I went there.

Surprisingly, the images are mainly OK; it's the textual hits that are appalling.

I've never encountered that phenomenon before. Clearly, you should win some sort of prize. Just not a very nice one...
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Pastey17

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2016, 01:08:19 pm »
0

How does Fortune work with coin tokens?  Do you have to pay all the coin tokens you want to use that turn before you put Fortune down to double them?  Can you play any coin tokens after playing Fortune (not that you'd want to, but you never know)?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2016, 01:16:36 pm »
+3

How does Fortune work with coin tokens?  Do you have to pay all the coin tokens you want to use that turn before you put Fortune down to double them?  Can you play any coin tokens after playing Fortune (not that you'd want to, but you never know)?

You can spend coin tokens for in your buy phase any time before you buy a card. So you could spend coin tokens for before playing Fortune, in which case that would be doubled. If you don't spend the coin tokens before playing Fortune, then there's no interaction there, you just won't double that because you don't have it. And then you could pay coin tokens after that for non-doubled .
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2016, 01:34:46 pm »
+5

How does Fortune work with coin tokens?  Do you have to pay all the coin tokens you want to use that turn before you put Fortune down to double them?  Can you play any coin tokens after playing Fortune (not that you'd want to, but you never know)?

You can spend coin tokens for in your buy phase any time before you buy a card. So you could spend coin tokens for before playing Fortune, in which case that would be doubled. If you don't spend the coin tokens before playing Fortune, then there's no interaction there, you just won't double that because you don't have it. And then you could pay coin tokens after that for non-doubled .

This may actually matter if you're going to buy a Villa and then play a Storyteller.  That extra $1 from doubling the coin token value could trigger an unwanted reshuffle!  Edgiest of cases.
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markusin

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2016, 01:53:33 pm »
0

I like how the bottom cards synergize with the top cards, even though the synergy between Gladiator and Fortune feels a bit heavy-handed. This helps avoid the scenario with City and Knights where you want other players to empty the piles. That dynamic is kinda cool, but City and Knights providing that fix is enough for me.
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King Leon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2016, 04:15:28 pm »
0

I wonder why Gladiator is so cheap for a terminal Gold variant. It is true, that Gladiator is much worse than Adventurer, but I think it is also very similar to Harvest.

Let's assume, that the odds that Harvest provides $1/$2/$3/$4 are ~ 2%/23%/55%/20% this is an average of 2.93$, practically a terminal Gold. Now let us estimate that Gladiator gives $2/$3 in 35%/65% of all cases, this is an average of 2.65$. We see, that Gladiator is only slightly weaker than Harvest.

Keeping its secondary effect in mind, I think, this card should cost $4, but maybe Donald had his reasons for the $3.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 04:33:04 pm by King Leon »
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Elestan

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2016, 04:29:03 pm »
+1

I wonder why Gladiator is so cheap for a terminal Gold variant. It is true, that Gladiator is much worse than Adventurer, but I assume that its strength is very similar to Harvest. Keeping its secondary effect in mind, I think, this card should cost $4, but maybe Donald had his reasons for the $3.

I don't know for certain, but I would guess that it's because early in the game it's quite likely to be a terminal Silver, not a Gold, and the early game is when the difference matters most.
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