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Author Topic: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles  (Read 28544 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2016, 01:43:30 pm »
0

So, buying a Rocks with Watchtower in hand can end up with two Silvers on top of the deck, right? Or not?

Right.  When you gain Rocks, it triggers the on-gain on Rocks and also the Watchtower reaction.  You decide what order to resolve them in.  No matter what, you're going to gain the Silver from Rocks.  If you also use Watchtower to trash the Rocks, it will trigger the Rocks' on-trash and gain you a second Silver on top of your deck.  You can also use Watchtower to trash either of those Silvers, but that's usually a bad idea.  You probably don't want to trash the Rocks with Watchtower either, since it's also good Catapult fodder.  If you weren't after fodder, you probably shouldn't be buying Rocks (edge cases: emptying the pile, Fairgrounds).

Oh man.  Fairgrounds gets another buff from split piles.  Did somebody mention that when the expansion was announced?  I don't remember, but this is a thing.

Anything that combos with Feodum, combos with Catapult. Trash a Silver with your Catapult, and each opponent gets to discard AND take a purple. Too bad a hand with Catapult + 4x Silver doesn't get to Province...


Well, Catapult + 4x Silver does get to Province.  Just don't play the Catapult.  Great point about Feodum; it's another great source of Catapult fodder.  Why throw rocks when you can throw an entirely piece of property?
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2016, 01:45:17 pm »
0

The Silvers from Rocks go into your hand if it's not your Buy phase.  :)
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2016, 01:51:18 pm »
+2

Quote
Each pile has 5 copies of the first (cheaper) card, then 5 copies of the second (more expensive) card. You can only buy/gain the card on top; if you want the other card, you have to dig it out. There are special randomizers for these piles, that list both cards and have art showing both things.

Sorry if I missed this, but to clarify, by "...then 5 copies," it means that when setting up, the five copies of the cheap card are always on top, and the five copies of the expensive card are always on the bottom?
Yes.
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Gubump

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2016, 01:53:21 pm »
+1

If I play a Gladiator and trash a Gladiator from the Supply, could I then react with a Market Square? My inclination is to say no, since you never gained the trashed Gladiator.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2016, 01:55:07 pm »
+2

If I play a Gladiator and trash a Gladiator from the Supply, could I then react with a Market Square? My inclination is to say no, since you never gained the trashed Gladiator.

No, because Market Square reacts to one of "your cards" being trashed. If Market Square instead said "When you trash a card", then it would work.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2016, 01:55:38 pm »
+1

The Silvers from Rocks go into your hand if it's not your Buy phase.  :)

But Watchtower means you still can end up with the 2 Silvers on your deck.  m_knox only asked if that was a possibility; of course it's not the only one.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2016, 01:56:20 pm »
+1

If I play a Gladiator and trash a Gladiator from the Supply, could I then react with a Market Square? My inclination is to say no, since you never gained the trashed Gladiator.

Correct.  Market Square says "when one of your cards is trashed" not "when you trash a card".

Ninja'd by slow f.ds load times.  :(
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2016, 01:57:33 pm »
+4

My first thought on Catapult is that it joins Swindler and Ambassador as another $3 junker.  It requires $3 fodder to do so, but is otherwise more reliable at cursing than either of them.  But the most common attack from early Catapults is going to be the discard attack, which works with Copper.  That alone will make it better than Militia a lot of the time, I think.  You make $1 less, but you get to trash a card.

You make $2 less, since you had to trash a Copper from your hand that you otherwise could have played.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2016, 01:59:03 pm »
+9

I've never been one to care about theme in Dominion or any other game; but I can say without a doubt that Catapult + Rocks is by far my favorite card in terms of theme.
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2016, 01:59:21 pm »
+5

What happens if you buy all of the Gladiators, buy a Fortune, Ambassador back Gladiators, and then Ambassador back a Fortune? Do you put the Fortune on top, or do you put it below the Gladiators?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2016, 02:02:56 pm »
+5

What happens if you buy all of the Gladiators, buy a Fortune, Ambassador back Gladiators, and then Ambassador back a Fortune? Do you put the Fortune on top, or do you put it below the Gladiators?

You put the Fortune on top.
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2016, 02:05:25 pm »
+3

Just throwing this out there (sorry if this is playtester bias in advance): In spite of art, potential balance curveballs, cost, and everything, Fortune is probably my favorite card in this set and my favorite Treasure in the game. I love the "simple but nuts" appeal of simply doubling one's money. It's great stuff.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2016, 02:10:49 pm »
0

Just throwing this out there (sorry if this is playtester bias in advance): In spite of art, potential balance curveballs, cost, and everything, Fortune is probably my favorite card in this set and my favorite Treasure in the game. I love the "simple but nuts" appeal of simply doubling one's money. It's great stuff.

I think the Gladiator art is fine.  Probably Stakenas' best.  Fortune is okay.  Maybe not exactly what you might think of when you think of a FORTUNE (Scrooge McDuck vault or something), but I think it fits for what a Gladiator would consider a Fortune.
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2016, 02:19:05 pm »
0

Oh man.  Fairgrounds gets another buff from split piles.  Did somebody mention that when the expansion was announced?  I don't remember, but this is a thing.

I played a lot of Empires + Cornucopia during playtesting for just this reason - that set loves split piles (more variety).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:44:32 pm by Voltaire »
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2016, 02:19:48 pm »
+1

Just throwing this out there (sorry if this is playtester bias in advance): In spite of art, potential balance curveballs, cost, and everything, Fortune is probably my favorite card in this set and my favorite Treasure in the game. I love the "simple but nuts" appeal of simply doubling one's money. It's great stuff.

Oh, and it's also totally hilarious when you draw fortune on a hand with barely any money.
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2016, 02:20:05 pm »
0

I think the Gladiator art is fine.

lol. Sorry, wero

Watno

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2016, 02:21:28 pm »
+10

"Hey, can you show a Trusty Steed as well? I don't think you can"
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2016, 02:24:29 pm »
0

My first thought on Catapult is that it joins Swindler and Ambassador as another $3 junker.  It requires $3 fodder to do so, but is otherwise more reliable at cursing than either of them.  But the most common attack from early Catapults is going to be the discard attack, which works with Copper.  That alone will make it better than Militia a lot of the time, I think.  You make $1 less, but you get to trash a card.

You make $2 less, since you had to trash a Copper from your hand that you otherwise could have played.

Yeah, I knew that and wasn't sure whether to mention it, but I usually don't think of trashing Copper in terms of "-$X" so I left it out. :)
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trivialknot

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2016, 02:28:00 pm »
+7

Previously, we figured out how to get infinite money with Villa.  Now we can get twice that with Fortune!
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2016, 02:37:38 pm »
+14

Just throwing this out there (sorry if this is playtester bias in advance): In spite of art, potential balance curveballs, cost, and everything, Fortune is probably my favorite card in this set and my favorite Treasure in the game. I love the "simple but nuts" appeal of simply doubling one's money. It's great stuff.

I think the Gladiator art is fine.  Probably Stakenas' best.  Fortune is okay.  Maybe not exactly what you might think of when you think of a FORTUNE (Scrooge McDuck vault or something), but I think it fits for what a Gladiator would consider a Fortune.

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Willvon

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2016, 02:52:37 pm »
+4

Anybody else hate the gladiator/fortune art?

Well, "Still life with coins and feet" is not exactly what I was expecting.

I don't like the style and the colors, but I could get over it.

It looks like Fortune is a continuation of the Gladiator picture. The fortune that he won is at his feet.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2016, 03:05:54 pm »
+2

The split-pile mechanic is great, especially on a pile that otherwise was never going to be in danger of running out anyway. Why not make the bottom  half something that synergizes well with the top half? I want to try a variant where you make split piles out of existing cards.
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2016, 04:29:43 pm »
0

Did the split pile mechanic contribute to Inheritance taking an actual copy of the card from the pile rather than putting a token on the pile like the other stuff from Adventures?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2016, 04:35:45 pm »
+6

Did the split pile mechanic contribute to Inheritance taking an actual copy of the card from the pile rather than putting a token on the pile like the other stuff from Adventures?

Inheritance had to be that way for Knights and Ruins.
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Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2016, 04:46:03 pm »
0

Thanks, I am only 90% convinced though. It was surely an option to just have Inheritance not be usable on action card piles that hold multiple different cards. But the more such piles that exist or will exist, the less appealing that resolution becomes. So I'm still wondering if their future existence was an influence.
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