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Author Topic: Empires Previews #1: Debt  (Read 147280 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #225 on: May 10, 2016, 12:41:01 pm »
+4

Because of that clause, I suspect that there will be some card that cares directly about how much debt you have or whether you have debt. Maybe something that multiplies opponents' debt. Otherwise paying off debt early would be unnecessary, since the next time you could buy a card, you could just pay off the debt then.

(Except Black Market, but that's hardly a reason for that whole line of text.)

I thought that at first, but the clause is also helpful if you don't need the full $6 from Capital.  As a simple case, suppose you only want to buy 2 Curses this turn for some reason.  You play Capital for the +Buy and don't need the $6 at all.  Without that clause, you are $6 in debt next turn.  The clause lets you pay off the debt immediately instead.  (I see Watno said this more succinctly than I did.)

I got it now! I had figured you could pay off the debt after your buy anyway. But you don't actually have the debt to pay off until you discard Capital, at which point you are done buying.

I still don't get it. Can't you just pay off your deck next turn before buying any cards? You can pay off debt both before and after buying cards, right?

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase? Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

I thought my example was clear.  It's why I posted it even though Watno already answered.  I deleted most of my other replies while reading through all the comments if others had already said the same thing, but left that one because the example was new. >_>



Re: how to represent debt, I'd like to suggest using angle brackets.  They approximate a hex shape, with the top and bottom implied.  <8>
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #226 on: May 10, 2016, 12:49:52 pm »
+4

I use parentheses to represent debt. (8)

Crap that doesn't work here.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #227 on: May 10, 2016, 12:55:26 pm »
+3

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase?

Yes.

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).


Why is this? I was just about to post on the Wiki thread because the Wiki already says this, even though Donald didn't mention it in his OP.
There were early cards along the lines of Grand Market and Mint, that made it matter whether or not you could play Treasures after buying cards. I don't really remember the details but as you can see decided that you couldn't.

Then with coin tokens and Debt, I just wanted rules that slotted in easily into the existing framework.
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #228 on: May 10, 2016, 12:56:52 pm »
+2

I use parentheses to represent debt. (8)

Crap that doesn't work here.

It can, just disable smilies in your reply (under "Attachments and other options")

(8)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #229 on: May 10, 2016, 01:15:05 pm »
0

I use parentheses to represent debt. (8)

Crap that doesn't work here.

It can, just disable smilies in your reply (under "Attachments and other options")

(8)

Thanks!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #230 on: May 10, 2016, 01:26:07 pm »
+3

I use parentheses to represent debt. (8)

Crap that doesn't work here.

It can, just disable smilies in your reply (under "Attachments and other options")

(8)

(8) 8)

I think I prefer angle brackets though.  I don't want to disable emoticons or input the extra code.  I'll switch if the community decides on parentheses as the standard though.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 01:27:40 pm by eHalcyon »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #231 on: May 10, 2016, 01:32:57 pm »
+1

How about a D

D8
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #232 on: May 10, 2016, 03:56:57 pm »
+1

Square brackets are classy.

[8] looks much better than (8) or D8.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #233 on: May 10, 2016, 03:59:07 pm »
0

Or you could just, you know, do

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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #234 on: May 10, 2016, 04:00:54 pm »
0

Or you could just, you know, do



Yes, I could copy the image link, paste it into the forum reply, surround that image link with an img code, surround all of that with sub code, and then submit that cluttered mess when everyone already knows what I mean by using square brackets in the first place.

<8> could also potentially work, but again, I like the square brackets a whole lot more.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #235 on: May 10, 2016, 05:18:04 pm »
+3

<8> could also potentially work, but again, I like the square brackets a whole lot more.

I'd rather reserve square brackets for the next expansion, which will feature blue squares.
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #236 on: May 11, 2016, 12:25:38 pm »
0

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).

Why is this? I was just about to post on the Wiki thread because the Wiki already says this, even though Donald didn't mention it in his OP.

Why is it, from a game-design perspective? Not sure off the top of my head, and I'm too hungry to really give it much thought.
I'm struggling to think of any circumstance in which it would make any difference whether you paid off debt between playing two Treasures, or played all the Treasures you wanted to then paid off the debt.

(You can still gain while in debt, so you don't need to pay it off before playing Horn of Plenty, for example.)
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pacovf

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #237 on: May 11, 2016, 09:36:42 pm »
+3

I am thinking that you will often pay more than the printed cost to get one of these. If, for example, you pay 4$ on the turn you get Royal Blacksmith, and then you get 5$ or 6$ on the next turn, then you will only be left with 1$ or 2$ after paying the remaining debt, which you will be unlikely to use to buy anything*. The end result will be that you spent 9$ or 10$ (and, in a sense, two buys) to get that Blacksmith.

Of course, you still have the option to wait until you actually get 8$ in a given turn, but, you know, something to keep in mind.

*Or you could BUY ANOTHER BLACKSMITH OH YEAH FINANCE YOUR DEBT WITH MORE DEBT BABY
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #238 on: May 11, 2016, 10:25:00 pm »
+1

A neat trick is to spend all your money on non-debt cards and then use an extra buy to get a debt card.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #239 on: May 12, 2016, 08:23:12 pm »
+1

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

liopoil

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #240 on: May 12, 2016, 08:26:18 pm »
0

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?
I would be shocked if the answer is yes. I believe it's "cost in coins".
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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #241 on: May 12, 2016, 08:27:01 pm »
+2

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?
I would be shocked if the answer is yes. I believe it's "cost in coins".

But you can overpay for Stonemason with Potion.

werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #242 on: May 12, 2016, 08:28:05 pm »
+1

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?
I would be shocked if the answer is yes. I believe it's "cost in coins".

But you can overpay for Stonemason with Potion.

But you're not really paying in Debt.  You're taking a card for free, essentially, and taking on Debt.  It may as well have cost and had "when you buy this, take so much Debt".

Also, if what you're proposing were allowed, it would lead to weird cases where you could overpay in Debt, but not actually get anything.  You could potentially overpay by infinite Debt if you wanted to.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:29:34 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #243 on: May 12, 2016, 08:29:11 pm »
0

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

The wording seems to indicate that you can:
Quote
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, gain 2 Actions each costing the amount you overpaid.

LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #244 on: May 12, 2016, 08:29:39 pm »
+3

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

Yes, this is legal.

Haha, turns out I am a total liar. Gotcha!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 09:20:52 pm by LastFootnote »
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singletee

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #245 on: May 12, 2016, 08:30:12 pm »
+1

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?
I would be shocked if the answer is yes. I believe it's "cost in coins".

But you can overpay for Stonemason with Potion.

But you're not really paying in Debt.  You're taking a card for free, essentially, and taking on Debt.  It may as well have cost and had "when you buy this, take so much Debt".

Also, if what you're proposing were allowed, it would lead to weird cases where you could overpay in Debt, but not actually get anything.  You could potentially overpay by infinite Debt if you wanted to.

So I suppose the question is not really "How does Stonemason work?" but "Can you overpay Debt?"

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #246 on: May 12, 2016, 08:31:08 pm »
0

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

Yes, this is legal.

But you don't buy the cards there, why do you have debt?
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #247 on: May 12, 2016, 08:31:29 pm »
+1

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

Yes, this is legal.

What, seriously?  Again, based on the wording of Overpay cards, you could overpay by an infinite amount of Debt.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #248 on: May 12, 2016, 08:31:43 pm »
0

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

Yes, this is legal.

But you don't buy the cards there, why do you have debt?

I don't understand your question.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #249 on: May 12, 2016, 08:32:44 pm »
+4

Maybe someone has already asked this, but can you overpay for Stonemason with Debt? Like I can get a Stonemason, a City Quarter, and a Royal Blacksmith for $2 now and $8 later?

Yes, this is legal.

What, seriously?  Again, based on the wording of Overpay cards, you could overpay by an infinite amount of Debt.

Correct. In the case you overpay by e.g. 1000 debt, I recommend using grains of rice for substitute debt tokens.
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