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Author Topic: Empires Previews #1: Debt  (Read 170702 times)

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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #200 on: May 10, 2016, 04:47:27 am »
0

The main reason why I think Capital is definitely going to get purchased a lot more often than Contraband or Cache is that it's insane on your last turn. Insane enough that I bet it will get bought the turn before a lot of the time.

Also, the potential synergies are much stronger than anything Contraband/Cache have going for themselves. And it definitely has megaturn potential that is a bit weaker than HoP (because one of them doesn't net you a Province), but still something to look out for.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #201 on: May 10, 2016, 06:09:18 am »
+1

Just create a Golden Colony deck with:

2 Princed Herbalists + 2 Capitals.

Capital should help to buy those Princes.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #202 on: May 10, 2016, 07:48:40 am »
0

(Or you cannot play copper this turn)
Creates rules issues with Venture.
Hence the ( )
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #203 on: May 10, 2016, 07:51:53 am »
0

The main reason why I think Capital is definitely going to get purchased a lot more often than Contraband or Cache is that it's insane on your last turn. Insane enough that I bet it will get bought the turn before a lot of the time.
I'm agreeing that it will make it above the other lame $5 treasures. You don't need to prove it's better than Cache, I believe you. But I just don't think it will end up as a power house on most boards, but it will be insane w/ herbalist and counterfeit.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #204 on: May 10, 2016, 08:10:14 am »
0

The main reason why I think Capital is definitely going to get purchased a lot more often than Contraband or Cache is that it's insane on your last turn. Insane enough that I bet it will get bought the turn before a lot of the time.
I'm agreeing that it will make it above the other lame $5 treasures. You don't need to prove it's better than Cache, I believe you. But I just don't think it will end up as a power house on most boards, but it will be insane w/ herbalist and counterfeit.

I don't think it's that much better with Counterfeit than it is without it. Counterfeit+Capital is decent value in terms of economy in the mid game where you have already trashed your junk Treasures but can't pull off a megaturn yet (they're essentially two $5 Treasures that give you +$4 and +1 buy each, since you get $13 and +3 buys total and you need to spend $5 and 1 buy to buy another Capital to replace the one you just trashed), but that's not amazing, that's just okay. It's better than "just okay" when you already have the Counterfeit (which is pretty often), but it's still not insane. It's insane on your last turn, because then you don't care about replacing the Capitals and so your Counterfeits will pretty much just act as extra Capitals but slightly better. But then you might as well have had more Capitals instead if Counterfeit wasn't present.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #205 on: May 10, 2016, 08:44:41 am »
0

This has probably been answered, but the thread is so long already.  ::)

The "cost" is like a 3rd resource (other than Coins and Potions) and should be treated as such.
But this still means we can Remodel a City Quarter into Royal Blacksmith, right?

Essentially, you can read them both as costing $0 P0 D8.
Also, a CQ can only be Swindled into a CQ or RB.

I sort of like how they're immune to shenanigans like Quarry/Bridge, etc.

Yes, you're right. This was my first thought and question within the first few replies.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #206 on: May 10, 2016, 10:07:51 am »
0

Because of that clause, I suspect that there will be some card that cares directly about how much debt you have or whether you have debt. Maybe something that multiplies opponents' debt. Otherwise paying off debt early would be unnecessary, since the next time you could buy a card, you could just pay off the debt then.

(Except Black Market, but that's hardly a reason for that whole line of text.)

I thought that at first, but the clause is also helpful if you don't need the full $6 from Capital.  As a simple case, suppose you only want to buy 2 Curses this turn for some reason.  You play Capital for the +Buy and don't need the $6 at all.  Without that clause, you are $6 in debt next turn.  The clause lets you pay off the debt immediately instead.  (I see Watno said this more succinctly than I did.)

I got it now! I had figured you could pay off the debt after your buy anyway. But you don't actually have the debt to pay off until you discard Capital, at which point you are done buying.

I still don't get it. Can't you just pay off your deck next turn before buying any cards? You can pay off debt both before and after buying cards, right?

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase? Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #207 on: May 10, 2016, 10:10:38 am »
+3

I still don't get it. Can't you just pay off your deck next turn before buying any cards? You can pay off debt both before and after buying cards, right?

Yes, but it matters for, for instance, Black Market, or any hypothetical card that cares about how much Debt you have.  Also, you might want to use up any extra you have from this turn to start paying off debt now - I mean, what else are you going to do with it?
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #208 on: May 10, 2016, 10:22:22 am »
+6


I still don't get it. Can't you just pay off your deck next turn before buying any cards? You can pay off debt both before and after buying cards, right?


Next turn you won't have whatever money you have sitting around this turn.... Let's say you have no money at all, and go to your buy phase. You play Capital. Now you have $6. You buy a Smithy. Now you have $2. When you discard Capital from play, you take 6 debt. You immediately pay off 2 of it with your leftover money. Now you have 4 debt.

Without that clause, you would start your next turn with 6 debt instead of 4, and you would have wasted $2 of the $6 that Capital gave you. Basically, the clause allows you to borrow any amount up to $6; without the clause you would have to borrow exactly $6.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #209 on: May 10, 2016, 10:43:44 am »
+4

Well, this is awkward. With the introduction of Debt, we will have to drop the tried-and-true complex number representation of costs and introduce SO(3) instead. I hope you've all been revising your Group Theory notebooks.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #210 on: May 10, 2016, 10:44:32 am »
+2

Well, this is awkward. With the introduction of Debt, we will have to drop the tried-and-true complex number representation of costs and introduce SO(3) instead. I hope you've all been revising your Group Theory notebooks.

Can't we just use quaternions?
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #211 on: May 10, 2016, 10:52:56 am »
0

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #212 on: May 10, 2016, 10:55:15 am »
+1

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

Poke at GendoIkari enough and he'll update his f.ds extension.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #213 on: May 10, 2016, 11:01:02 am »
0

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

It's too bad because

Code: [Select]
[b][color=red][ # ][/color][/b]
is a lot of code to type.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #214 on: May 10, 2016, 11:03:51 am »
0

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

Poke at GendoIkari enough and he'll update his f.ds extension.

His f.ds extension does not work for Firefox, and I don't like using Google Chrome anymore because it's so bloated.

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

It's too bad because

Code: [Select]
[b][color=red][ # ][/color][/b]
is a lot of code to type.

#MillennialWoes
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #215 on: May 10, 2016, 11:09:07 am »
+3


 ___
/ 8 \
\___/


That's not too much code, right?

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #216 on: May 10, 2016, 11:11:09 am »
0

His f.ds extension does not work for Firefox, and I don't like using Google Chrome anymore because it's so bloated.

Those aren't the only two options, you know. Opera is way better, and Chrome extensions work on it.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #217 on: May 10, 2016, 11:22:55 am »
0

Well, this is awkward. With the introduction of Debt, we will have to drop the tried-and-true complex number representation of costs and introduce SO(3) instead. I hope you've all been revising your Group Theory notebooks.

Can't we just use quaternions?

That's one dimension too many. Unless you just accidentally revealed that you are privy to inside info on a future expansion...?
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #218 on: May 10, 2016, 11:23:43 am »
0

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

Poke at GendoIkari enough and he'll update his f.ds extension.

I was just about to make a post in my extension thread about this; but figured I'd wait until I had more news. Anyway, I see the Wiki already has the images I need for 8-debt cost, thanks! The sad news is that at the moment, my hard-drive is sitting around existing as an image in a friend's data center; waiting until I get it cloned onto my new drive. Hopefully that will be very soon, and I'll be updating the extension as soon as I have those files again.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #219 on: May 10, 2016, 11:24:51 am »
0

I just use [ # ] for debt. I don't think that's too bad, is it?

Poke at GendoIkari enough and he'll update his f.ds extension.

His f.ds extension does not work for Firefox, and I don't like using Google Chrome anymore because it's so bloated.


I really want to get a Firefox version out there; but I haven't been able to find anyone who can help me port it; and my own attempts were not successful. But I'll keep trying (as soon as I get my computer back).
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #220 on: May 10, 2016, 11:28:15 am »
+1

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase?

Yes.

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #221 on: May 10, 2016, 11:32:17 am »
0

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase?

Yes.

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).


Why is this? I was just about to post on the Wiki thread because the Wiki already says this, even though Donald didn't mention it in his OP.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 11:52:44 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #222 on: May 10, 2016, 11:40:42 am »
0

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase?

Yes.

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).
Why is this? I was just about to post on the Wiki thread because the Wiki already says this, even though Donald didn't mention it in his OP.
Your quote is broken.  :)
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #223 on: May 10, 2016, 11:42:06 am »
0

And a question for Donald: Can you pay off debt at any time in-between buying cards in your Buy phase?

Yes.

Can you also pay off debt before/in-between playing Treasures, or just after you're done playing Treasures?

No, just after playing Treasures. Once you buy a card, buy an Event, or pay off debt, you cannot play any more Treasures this turn (barring Villa shenanigans).

Why is this? I was just about to post on the Wiki thread because the Wiki already says this, even though Donald didn't mention it in his OP.

Why is it, from a game-design perspective? Not sure off the top of my head, and I'm too hungry to really give it much thought.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #224 on: May 10, 2016, 11:46:44 am »
0

Donald has mentioned it in a few other posts scattered about.  Not the reasoning behind it, just the ruling.
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