Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16  All

Author Topic: Empires Previews #1: Debt  (Read 68278 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2933
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2441
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2016, 01:29:25 pm »
0

And, wow, Royal Blacksmith seems strong, especially after you've started trashing down.

I've already seen the other two cards. Capital interests me the most, but if you're deck is not very action-dense, it's not as good as it seems at first glance.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5586
  • Respect: +3593
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2016, 01:29:32 pm »
0

Nobody is asking the important questions yet.

How are we going to include these in the Qvist community card rankings?

Easy. Just as there are separate rankings for the Ruins, and there are separate rankings for Potion cards, there will be separate rankings for Debt cards.
Logged
3/4ths retired

crlundy

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 248
  • Shuffle iT Username: crlundy
  • Respect: +291
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2016, 01:29:49 pm »
0

I'm going to say that there is probably 7 Debt cards.
Not to mention debt Events.

Also, are the debt tokens cardboard chits, or part of the 96 metal tokens?
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11162
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11832
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2016, 01:30:03 pm »
0

Anyway, ugh, Possession is already a messed up card. And, now the VP thing. Well, I guess you should never buy Bishop if Possession is on the board. Banning the card might not be such a bad idea.

Buying trash-for-benefit was always a pretty bad idea with Possession.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2016, 01:32:20 pm »
+10

Not to be the one coming with negative comments in such a jolly occasion, but I really wish the artists could find something a bit more original than "Still Life with Coins on Table #6" for Treasure cards.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7891
  • Respect: +8713
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2016, 01:34:29 pm »
+1

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay  off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

I guess you're right. Maybe it's $2 [4] for 3 VP then or something like that. But that's not incredibly unique. I feel like it would have to also do something extra.

I also love that Possession is getting a nerf. It's not the best card in the world to begin with, but now it's even not as good. :)

Um, this is a buff, not a nerf. Previously, Possession couldn't steal a person's VP when Monument, etc was played on the possessed turn. Now it can.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7891
  • Respect: +8713
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2016, 01:35:30 pm »
0

Guys: be careful with Royal Blacksmith.  If your deck is mostly Coppers, it can end up decreasing your handsize.

I don't think you need to "be careful" with that... Warehouse and Cellar also decrease your handsize, but that's ok because you replace those discarded Coppers with better cards. Granted, you don't want to open Royal Blacksmith and play it on turn 3....
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5586
  • Respect: +3593
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2016, 01:37:13 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay  off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

I guess you're right. Maybe it's $2 [4] for 3 VP then or something like that. But that's not incredibly unique. I feel like it would have to also do something extra.

I also love that Possession is getting a nerf. It's not the best card in the world to begin with, but now it's even not as good. :)

Um, this is a buff, not a nerf. Previously, Possession couldn't steal a person's VP when Monument, etc was played on the possessed turn. Now it can.

I read the post wrong. The possessed and the possessor previously were the possessor and the possessed, but now they are the possessed and the possessor. Reading all of that dialogue is complicated.
Logged
3/4ths retired

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7891
  • Respect: +8713
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2016, 01:40:10 pm »
+2

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2016, 01:40:40 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay  off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

I guess you're right. Maybe it's $2 [4] for 3 VP then or something like that. But that's not incredibly unique. I feel like it would have to also do something extra.

I also love that Possession is getting a nerf. It's not the best card in the world to begin with, but now it's even not as good. :)

Um, this is a buff, not a nerf. Previously, Possession couldn't steal a person's VP when Monument, etc was played on the possessed turn. Now it can.

I read the post wrong. The possessed and the possessor previously were the possessor and the possessed, but now they are the possessed and the possessor. Reading all of that dialogue is complicated.

Yeah, I also got confused earlier in the thread. Debt cards are clearly too wonky, they mess up Possession.  :P ::)
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2016, 01:43:05 pm »
0

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.

Possession-in-a-vacuum got more powerful, but the card mix may get, relatively speaking, many more hard-ish counters than what it had before. (vp tokens and forced Action players)
Logged

buckyball

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • Respect: +4
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2016, 01:44:58 pm »
0

So, I assume Debt, VP and Coin Tokens work this way, then. What about Pirate Ship tokens?
Yes, you also get those tokens.

I assume the gained Coin tokens go to the Possessor's pool immediately. This means Possessor can't use Coin tokens from Bakers played that turn; he/she can still use the Coin tokens the Possessed has accumulated up until the previous turn. Is this correct?
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1526
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1462
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2016, 01:45:46 pm »
+1

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.

No, but the way Debt interacts with Possession is a counter to Possession. Buying a debt card before my opponent possesses me looks pretty strong.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7065
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9768
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2016, 01:47:20 pm »
+8

Not to be the one coming with negative comments in such a jolly occasion, but I really wish the artists could find something a bit more original than "Still Life with Coins on Table #6" for Treasure cards.

Donald specifically asks for "no people" on notes to artists for Treasure cards. Personally I really like Loan et al., but he prefers just seeing whatever the Treasure object is.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11162
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11832
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2016, 01:47:41 pm »
+1

So I can use their Pirate Ships to thin my deck and mine as payload? Miser is so 2015, guys.

I don't think you want to use Mine as a payload very often if you're using their Pirate Ships to thin your deck.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Willvon

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 181
  • Respect: +129
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2016, 01:49:41 pm »
0

Admittedly, there are plenty of ways to get to $14 on a turn, but do you think it could be possible that we will get a new treasure that gives you $6 or 7$ similar to Platinum coming out with Colonies?

Well, I was thinking of the possibility of a new basic treasure card that would give more money than Platinum, but at least I was right about having a treasure that gives you $6. I wouldn't be surprised to see another card that gives $6. After all, this is Empires. We've gone from Properity to Extravagance, and of course, with Extravagance comes Debt.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2016, 01:50:23 pm »
0

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.

No, but the way Debt interacts with Possession is a counter to Possession. Buying a debt card before my opponent possesses me looks pretty strong.

But buying Debt cards while you Possess somebody is even stronger. In both cases the possessee is left deep in debt, but in the second case the possessor gained a card.
The net result would be very heavily pro-possession. (it's essentially a coin-production pin)
Logged

ced

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect: +98
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2016, 01:51:22 pm »
+10

Not to be the one coming with negative comments in such a jolly occasion, but I really wish the artists could find something a bit more original than "Still Life with Coins on Table #6" for Treasure cards.

Like this?

Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1224
  • Respect: +1308
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #93 on: May 09, 2016, 01:53:04 pm »
+3

Is it my imagination (I'm no Dominion guru) or might Mandarin+Capital be a candidate for the combo which gives the largest possible advantage to players that get a 5/2 split?

Buy Mandarin, topdeck $5. Buy Capital. Then, when the Capital comes around again, every turn buy Mandarin + as many Capital as you can afford until all the Capital is gone. At that point, buy Mandarins and Duchies to pile out quickly.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2016, 01:54:00 pm »
+9

Not to be the one coming with negative comments in such a jolly occasion, but I really wish the artists could find something a bit more original than "Still Life with Coins on Table #6" for Treasure cards.

Like this?



I love coins on tables. More please.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1526
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1462
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2016, 01:54:56 pm »
0

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.

No, but the way Debt interacts with Possession is a counter to Possession. Buying a debt card before my opponent possesses me looks pretty strong.

But buying Debt cards while you Possess somebody is even stronger. In both cases the possessee is left deep in debt, but in the second case the possessor gained a card.
The net result would be very heavily pro-possession. (it's essentially a coin-production pin)

I think you missed Donalds post on Page 2. If you buy a card on a Possession turn, you get the debt.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1776
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2016, 02:00:39 pm »
0

How can you all already determine whether it is a buff or nerf for Possession? So far, we have three cards that generate VP. Maybe this set has twelve debt cards, then it's clearly a nerf. Probably it doesn't have that much, and it maybe has some other VP generating cards which would buff Possession but it's definitely too early to determine the new strength of possession.

I don't think you can call it a nerf when it never existed that you could use Possession + Debt that way (except maybe in early playtesting). It's only a nerf versus a theoretical interaction that doesn't and never has existed. That's like saying that Smithy being +3 cards is a nerf vs if Smithy were +4 cards.

No, but the way Debt interacts with Possession is a counter to Possession. Buying a debt card before my opponent possesses me looks pretty strong.

But buying Debt cards while you Possess somebody is even stronger. In both cases the possessee is left deep in debt, but in the second case the possessor gained a card.
The net result would be very heavily pro-possession. (it's essentially a coin-production pin)

I think you missed Donalds post on Page 2. If you buy a card on a Possession turn, you get the debt.

I thought you were still talking to Possession-as-is rather than Possession-as-it-will-be. They should get different names or something.

Speaking of which, Donald, when will the change take effect? Immediately, as soon as MF implements it (few months), 2017...?

Also, while I'm Possessing, does my opponent use my token like their own in full (under my direction) or do they spend theirs and whatever they gain goes to me?
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1526
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1462
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2016, 02:06:37 pm »
0


I thought you were still talking to Possession-as-is rather than Possession-as-it-will-be. They should get different names or something.

Speaking of which, Donald, when will the change take effect? Immediately, as soon as MF implements it (few months), 2017...?

Also, while I'm Possessing, does my opponent use my token like their own in full (under my direction) or do they spend theirs and whatever they gain goes to me?

I'm pretty sure everything stays the same, except that the VP/Coin tokens go to the other play. So you can use their token, but can't generat new ones with Baker for them, as you'll receive them instead.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3325
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2016, 02:07:40 pm »
+2

I wonder if there will be online only headaches in there to implement just to make it harder for Stef and Philip. >:(
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

faust

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2504
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3476
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2016, 02:11:10 pm »
+2

Speaking of which, Donald, when will the change take effect? Immediately, as soon as MF implements it (few months), 2017...?

What is the purpose of this question? I mean, if you want to use the new rules for Possession IRL, go ahead and do it. I doubt Donald will come out and say "Don't you dare use the errata IRL before MF implemented them!"

And "as soon as MF implements it" probably equals never.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16  All
 

Page created in 0.154 seconds with 20 queries.