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Author Topic: Empires Previews #1: Debt  (Read 57451 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2016, 12:36:12 pm »
+30

Buying debt cards while possessing someoen sounds pretty good.
Oh right. I forgot to mention it, but Possession is getting errata. No joke, errata. It will now cause the possessing player to also get all tokens the other player would have gotten. This means they will also get VP tokens, which wasn't the point, but was the simplest way to make debt + Possession not suck.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2016, 12:38:46 pm »
+4

But it does seem that you can remodel a City Quarter into a Royal Blacksmith, and vice-versa, because " + 8 debt" is up to more than " + 8 debt." And when you do gain a Royal Blacksmith like this, you wouldn't take any debt tokens. Right?
Yes, you can Remodel a City Quarter into a Royal Blacksmith, and you don't get any Debt for doing that.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2016, 12:39:23 pm »
+3

Oh, Capital + Herbalist!
You mean Counterfeit.

No discard = free $12.

No, I think he means Herbalist. No discard = free $6 every turn. I'm not sure if that actually works though.

Seems clear it would work...
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2016, 12:39:36 pm »
0

What is the expansion symbol supposed to be?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 12:41:07 pm »
+1

Buying debt cards while possessing someoen sounds pretty good.
Oh right. I forgot to mention it, but Possession is getting errata. No joke, errata. It will now cause the possessing player to also get all tokens the other player would have gotten. This means they will also get VP tokens, which wasn't the point, but was the simplest way to make debt + Possession not suck.

Woah. I assume that this is just something that will be mentioned in the Empire rulebook? And maybe future printings of Alchemy rulebooks?
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 12:41:14 pm »
0

What exactly is the new version of Possession?
Do you still need to pay off the debt of the possessed player before buying anything? Does anything about adventures tokens change?

I think it was kinda cool that there where no errata. :(
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 12:42:03 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 12:42:23 pm »
+2

What is the expansion symbol supposed to be?

A laurel.
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faust

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2016, 12:44:21 pm »
+10

I always thought there would be a Capitol card - some kind of really powerful village. I guess Capital makes that unlikely.

I for one wouldn't mint if there was also a Capitol card.
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Watno

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 12:44:43 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay  off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 12:46:10 pm »
0

I just don't understand why there is a bottomless pit in the middle of the city quarter.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 12:46:50 pm »
+1

I just don't understand why there is a bottomless pit in the middle of the city quarter.

I think It's a roof
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 12:47:45 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

"While you have the tokens, you can't buy cards or Events."
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bedlam

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 12:47:48 pm »
0

I now want there to be a way to save up unused money from previous turns to pre-pay debt.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 12:47:55 pm »
0

One question, May I pay my debt when I want (after playing few market for example and just before playing a storryteller) ?

You can pay off Debt tokens in your Buy phase, before and/or after buying cards, at $1 per token.

This is why Capital's last clause is needed; it allows paying off Debt during cleanup.

Because of that clause, I suspect that there will be some card that cares directly about how much debt you have or whether you have debt. Maybe something that multiplies opponents' debt. Otherwise paying off debt early would be unnecessary, since the next time you could buy a card, you could just pay off the debt then.

(Except Black Market, but that's hardly a reason for that whole line of text.)

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2016, 12:49:14 pm »
+12

I found one of the VP symbols: it's in the City Quarter art. 59 to go.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2016, 12:50:41 pm »
+2


Because of that clause, I suspect that there will be some card that cares directly about how much debt you have or whether you have debt. Maybe something that multiplies opponents' debt. Otherwise paying off debt early would be unnecessary, since the next time you could buy a card, you could just pay off the debt then.

Well, if yu don't pay it off right then, the money will be gone.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2016, 12:51:43 pm »
0

Woah. I assume that this is just something that will be mentioned in the Empire rulebook? And maybe future printings of Alchemy rulebooks?
It's in the Empires rulebook, and yes someday I hope to have it on new printings of Possession and in that rulebook.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2016, 12:52:33 pm »
+3

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

"While you have the tokens, you can't buy cards or Events."

Right, but when you're possessing someone and buy a debt card, you get the debt. So you could possess someone, get 10 buys, buy 10 Royal Blacksmiths, and build up 80 debt for yourself.
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ben_king

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2016, 12:52:55 pm »
+2

All of this debt seems really expensive to me. I wouldn't value being able to pay later and not buying anything till then so highly intuitively.

I like to think of it this way:  We often say that one good turn is better than two mediocre turns in Dominion.  With a debt-cost card, you can buy a powerful card on two mediocre turns instead of waiting until one good turn to get it.  And if you're playing with Capital, you can use it to spike pretty much whatever you want.  To get a really good card early, I'd gladly take a not-so-good turn next time.
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2016, 12:54:49 pm »
0

Oh, Capital + Herbalist!
You mean Counterfeit.

No discard = free $12.

No, I think he means Herbalist. No discard = free $6 every turn. I'm not sure if that actually works though.

Seems clear it would work...

Right, I always forget that Herbalist isn't Scheme.
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2016, 12:54:56 pm »
+3

What exactly is the new version of Possession?
Do you still need to pay off the debt of the possessed player before buying anything? Does anything about adventures tokens change?

I think it was kinda cool that there where no errata. :(
Dude. Possession. It was bound to happen eventually. In some sense a few cards already have errata - Black Market (you can play Treasures), Pirate Ship (it doesn't mean Guilds tokens), Envoy (it's not drawing).

Nothing about the Adventures tokens changes. If I Possess you and have you buy a City Quarter, I get the Debt. If I have you play a Monument, I get the VP.
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Seprix

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2016, 12:55:52 pm »
0

Calling a Debt cost VP card.

Debt cost VP card would be  broken assuming you don't need to pay  off the debt of the player you possess. You'd just need enough buys and  could buy them all.

I guess you're right. Maybe it's $2 [4] for 3 VP then or something like that. But that's not incredibly unique. I feel like it would have to also do something extra.

I also love that Possession is getting a nerf. It's not the best card in the world to begin with, but now it's even not as good. :)
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Voltaire

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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2016, 12:56:33 pm »
+2

I think it was kinda cool that there where no errata. :(

Dominion has, for several years, had errata in all but name. This just marks the first time the word has been used (and put in a physical printed product, I assume?).

PPE: "Ninja'd" by Donald during my fourth attempt to post this.  :o
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Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2016, 12:57:56 pm »
0

Guys: be careful with Royal Blacksmith.  If your deck is mostly Coppers, it can end up decreasing your handsize.
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