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Author Topic: Introducing a new rules document  (Read 11633 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2016, 11:19:38 am »
+1

Thanks for your feedback! I've adopted most of your suggestions (for the next version obviously, I assume whenever a new expansion arrives unless substantial changes are made to second edition versions of cards in the meantime).

Some grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:
1) pg. 2, paragraph 1, grammar: "To start playing, you should read chapter I, and the paragraphs..." The comma after the word "and" is unnecessary and ultimately interrupts the flow of the sentence
The reason for the comma was actually to create a pause, to separate  "chapter I" and "the paragraphs in chapter II marked with a golden shield", so that it's clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II". Do you still think it's clearer to just drop the comma?

7) pg. 2, when describing expansion symbols, "expansion" should probably be used instead of "set."
The thing is that it also includes the symbol for the base game, which is not an expansion.

10) pg. 3, paragraph 4, formatting: you forgot to color an instance of the word "deck" in the last sentence.
It's intentional. The deck is defined as the draw pile (as in all actual card texts). In that sentence ("let you trash cards from your deck"), the meaning is rather "all your cards", not just your draw pile. Maybe rephrasing it would be better...
The fact is that "deck" is used in Dominion with both meanings. Even in the new rules. From the Overview section: (meaning 1 = draw pile; meaning 2 = all your cards)
Dominion is a game of building a deck (2) of cards.  Each player has their own deck (1) , their own discard pile, their own hand of cards and play area. ...and then buy one card to add to your deck (2)
On cards, "deck" is used with meaning 1 (I think without exception).

11) pg. 3, paragraph 5, formatting: the word "Supply" should be purple, as it has a definition according to the rules of dominion
I have chosen to not color the words that already have an initial capital letter in card texts and rulebooks. Maybe I should have. I would have to color Action, Action phase, Bane, Buy, Buy phase, Clean-up phase, Coin, Coin token, Debt, Kingdom card, Randomizer, Supply, Victory point, Victory point token; and maybe Journey token and Tavern mat. (Names and types would obviously be left as-is.) I'll consider this for the next version.

12) pg. 3, paragraph 6, clarification: you should specify that the shuffled cards are added to the bottom of your deck
That's specified in the relevant rules sections. This is just an overview.

13)pg. 3, paragraph 6, formatting: the following words should be purple in the last sentence: deck, opponent (actually unsure about this one), turn, deck (again)
Deck: same as above. Again, I'm not sure if rephrasing it would be better. I have chosen not to define opponent or turn, as it's the same as in every game.

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2016, 04:44:06 pm »
+2

Thanks for your feedback! I've adopted most of your suggestions (for the next version obviously, I assume whenever a new expansion arrives unless substantial changes are made to second edition versions of cards in the meantime).

Some grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:
1) pg. 2, paragraph 1, grammar: "To start playing, you should read chapter I, and the paragraphs..." The comma after the word "and" is unnecessary and ultimately interrupts the flow of the sentence
The reason for the comma was actually to create a pause, to separate  "chapter I" and "the paragraphs in chapter II marked with a golden shield", so that it's clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II". Do you still think it's clearer to just drop the comma?

7) pg. 2, when describing expansion symbols, "expansion" should probably be used instead of "set."
The thing is that it also includes the symbol for the base game, which is not an expansion.

10) pg. 3, paragraph 4, formatting: you forgot to color an instance of the word "deck" in the last sentence.
It's intentional. The deck is defined as the draw pile (as in all actual card texts). In that sentence ("let you trash cards from your deck"), the meaning is rather "all your cards", not just your draw pile. Maybe rephrasing it would be better...
The fact is that "deck" is used in Dominion with both meanings. Even in the new rules. From the Overview section: (meaning 1 = draw pile; meaning 2 = all your cards)
Dominion is a game of building a deck (2) of cards.  Each player has their own deck (1) , their own discard pile, their own hand of cards and play area. ...and then buy one card to add to your deck (2)
On cards, "deck" is used with meaning 1 (I think without exception).

11) pg. 3, paragraph 5, formatting: the word "Supply" should be purple, as it has a definition according to the rules of dominion
I have chosen to not color the words that already have an initial capital letter in card texts and rulebooks. Maybe I should have. I would have to color Action, Action phase, Bane, Buy, Buy phase, Clean-up phase, Coin, Coin token, Debt, Kingdom card, Randomizer, Supply, Victory point, Victory point token; and maybe Journey token and Tavern mat. (Names and types would obviously be left as-is.) I'll consider this for the next version.

12) pg. 3, paragraph 6, clarification: you should specify that the shuffled cards are added to the bottom of your deck
That's specified in the relevant rules sections. This is just an overview.

13)pg. 3, paragraph 6, formatting: the following words should be purple in the last sentence: deck, opponent (actually unsure about this one), turn, deck (again)
Deck: same as above. Again, I'm not sure if rephrasing it would be better. I have chosen not to define opponent or turn, as it's the same as in every game.

Ok, the deck thing makes sense. I see your reasoning behind the comma, although I still think it would be clearer without, as it interrupts the flow of yhe sentence. The capitalized thing makes sense, surprised that I missed it on the others.

More feedback forthcoming!
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dane-m

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2016, 03:24:35 am »
+1

Some grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:
1) pg. 2, paragraph 1, grammar: "To start playing, you should read chapter I, and the paragraphs..." The comma after the word "and" is unnecessary and ultimately interrupts the flow of the sentence
The reason for the comma was actually to create a pause, to separate  "chapter I" and "the paragraphs in chapter II marked with a golden shield", so that it's clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II". Do you still think it's clearer to just drop the comma?
There are some possibilities for getting rid of the comma while still making it clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II", but all are a bit more verbose, e.g.

"To start playing, you should read both chapter I and the paragraphs..."

"To start playing, you should read not only chapter I but also the paragraphs..."

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2016, 06:06:54 pm »
+1

More grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:

Note: most word choice suggestions listed are simply for professionalism, and can be ignored at the author's discretion

1) pg. 3, Base cards, paragraph 4, grammar and word choice: In Dark Ages, there are Ruins cards, which can be seen as base cards, too, and Shelters cards, which do not belong to any pile.

2) pg. 3, Base cards, indented text, grammar: The Base game and Intrugue (1st ed.) each contains...
2.1) also, each card name should be pluralized.

3) pg. 3, Kingdom cards, word choice: There are 275 different Kingdom card piles available in total, (countingincluding the 12 that were in the first editions...

4) pg. 4, Non-Kingdom cards, word choice: replace each instance of "in" with "from"

5) pg. 4, Common tokens, Coin tokens, paragraph 3: Even though it is stated in paragraph 4 of this section, I would still include that Pirate Ship tokens cannot be spent like tokens handed out by guilds cards here.

6) pg. 4, Common tokens, Victory point tokens, grammar/word choice: When you take a token, take it from the token supply unless otherwise specified where to take it from
6.1) They have values of 1, 2, and 5...

7) pg. 5, Debt tokens, grammar/word choice: see 6)

8 ) pg. 5, Player tokens, paragraph 1, word choice: In each player color (6) there are 8 round tokens and 2 rectangular tokens in each of the 6 player colors

9) pg. 5, Player tokens, paragraph 2,grammar(ish): repeating "your" in the list of tokens is unnecessary after the first instance of the word. Space will be saved, and the sentence will remain grammatically correct.

10) pg. 6, Ruins and Shelters: I would note that these types also allow them to be referred to by other cards (e.g. Vagrant)

11) pg. 6, Travellers: I would note the arrow present in the text boxes of all traveller cards

12) pg 6. Types, indented small print, grammar/missing info: The exceptions are Action-Victory, Action-Shelter, and Action Treasure...

More feedback forthcoming!
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Jeebus

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2016, 11:01:33 am »
0

More grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:

1, 3, 4, 10) I decided it's fine the way it is. (All card types can be referred to by other cards...)
2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".
5) Ok, I made a note of it under the section for Coin tokens in the actual rules.
6, 7, 8, 9) Ok, changed
11) This is already noted under the section for Travellers in the actual rules.
12) Grammatical mistake and missing info indeed, thanks!

Polk5440

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2016, 03:35:14 pm »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2016, 03:57:18 pm »
+2

Some grammar, formatting, and other suggestions:
1) pg. 2, paragraph 1, grammar: "To start playing, you should read chapter I, and the paragraphs..." The comma after the word "and" is unnecessary and ultimately interrupts the flow of the sentence
The reason for the comma was actually to create a pause, to separate  "chapter I" and "the paragraphs in chapter II marked with a golden shield", so that it's clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II". Do you still think it's clearer to just drop the comma?
There are some possibilities for getting rid of the comma while still making it clear that "marked with a golden shield" only applies to "the paragraphs in chapter II", but all are a bit more verbose, e.g.

"To start playing, you should read both chapter I and the paragraphs..."

"To start playing, you should read not only chapter I but also the paragraphs..."

I would say the comma in:

Quote
To start playing, you should read chapter I, and the paragraphs in chapter II marked with a golden shield.

is simply incorrect.  I know the comma is there to denote a pause/separation as if you were reading aloud, but this isn't really done in technical writing.  It reads very clearly without the comma.  The comma here strongly suggests that 'and' is being used as a conjunction between two independent clauses, and this is not the case here.  This makes the latter part of the sentence feel like a fragment.   In case there is any fear of a lack of clarity, you can simply say:

Quote
To start playing, you should read chapter I and the paragraphs in chapter II that are marked with a golden shield.

The 'that are' is implied in the original wording (without the comma), and adding it in shows there's no danger of thinking the golden shields are associated with chapter I.

For what it's worth, I worked as a technical writer for three years, and spent a lot of time editing and writing papers (mostly mathematical), as well as different types of user guides/user documentation.  Of course, this type of document is not the same, though I would tend to follow technical writing guidelines for something like this, since it is a kind of manual.

I'd also capitalize things like 'Chapter I', etc. (basically, any enumerated header), but that's a style choice.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2016, 06:57:52 pm »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.

It was actually pluralized in the rules document. The strikethrough on the letter "s" wasn't obvious, and easily mistaken for bold, causing the miscommunication.
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Jeebus

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2016, 09:13:38 pm »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.

It was actually pluralized in the rules document. The strikethrough on the letter "s" wasn't obvious, and easily mistaken for bold, causing the miscommunication.

I'm confused. In the document it says: "The Base game and Intrigue each contains..."
"contains" is singular. Are you saying that's correct or not?

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2016, 01:27:28 am »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.

It was actually pluralized in the rules document. The strikethrough on the letter "s" wasn't obvious, and easily mistaken for bold, causing the miscommunication.

I'm confused. In the document it says: "The Base game and Intrigue each contains..."
"contains" is singular. Are you saying that's correct or not?

I will admit that I managed to confuse myself...and honestly, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure. On the one hand, "the Base game and Intrigue" is plural, and on the other, each is not...Ithink that when I posted the suggestion originally, I was thinking from the point of view of "the Base game and Intrigue" rather than "each," and now I'm not sure.
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navical

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2016, 04:24:06 am »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.

It was actually pluralized in the rules document. The strikethrough on the letter "s" wasn't obvious, and easily mistaken for bold, causing the miscommunication.

I'm confused. In the document it says: "The Base game and Intrigue each contains..."
"contains" is singular. Are you saying that's correct or not?

To my ear that is wrong, it should be "each contain".
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2016, 09:22:43 am »
+1

I'm pretty sure that you shouldn't be using singular/plural verbs based on the word "each", but based on whatever happens to be the subject of the sentence. In many cases, the "each" is a part of the subject (such as "Each expansion contains..."), but here, the subject is "The Base game and Intrigue", which is a plural subject, so it should be correct to use the plural verb too.
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2016, 09:26:04 am »
0

2) I'm pretty sure it's grammatically (and logically) correct to use singular with "each".

Yep. "Each" is singular.

It was actually pluralized in the rules document. The strikethrough on the letter "s" wasn't obvious, and easily mistaken for bold, causing the miscommunication.

I'm confused. In the document it says: "The Base game and Intrigue each contains..."
"contains" is singular. Are you saying that's correct or not?

To my ear that is wrong, it should be "each contain".

Yes, plural is proper agreement here. Either the subject is "Base and Intrigue" or the subject is "Each", both of which are plural subjects in this sentence. "Each of Base and Intrigue contains" would be correct though I think?
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2016, 09:40:57 am »
0

I think 'both' is actually better.  "Both the Base game and Intrigue contain..."
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Polk5440

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2016, 10:12:57 am »
+2

"Each" is always singular when it is a subject. I try never to use "each" in apposition in a sentence of technical writing where the subject is plural because it can be confusing. Though, there is no rule on this.

I prefer these formulations:

"The Base game and Intrigue contain..."
"Each of the Base game and Intrigue contains..."
"Both the base game and Intrigue contain..."
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2016, 12:21:41 pm »
0

Yeah my mistake - if each is a subject it is singular. In the example sentence I think it is a preposition though. "Each of X and Y are ...", the subject is "X and Y", or plural.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2016, 12:50:55 pm »
0

"Each" is always singular when it is a subject. I try never to use "each" in apposition in a sentence of technical writing where the subject is plural because it can be confusing. Though, there is no rule on this.

I prefer these formulations:

"The Base game and Intrigue contain..."
"Each of the Base game and Intrigue contains..."
"Both the base game and Intrigue contain..."

These answers each are correct.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2016, 06:03:51 pm »
+1

"Each" is always singular when it is a subject. I try never to use "each" in apposition in a sentence of technical writing where the subject is plural because it can be confusing. Though, there is no rule on this.

I prefer these formulations:

"The Base game and Intrigue contain..."
"Each of the Base game and Intrigue contains..."
"Both the base game and Intrigue contain..."

These answers each are correct.

Uh, I think you meant to say, "Each of this answers are correctly."
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2016, 05:04:31 pm »
0

I found several explanations of the rules on this, and they were all pretty convoluted compared to this simple one that nevertheless seems to be correct: http://www.really-learn-english.com/each-singular-or-plural.html

In my case rule number 2 applies. (The pronoun "each" acts in apposition to a plural subject.) So what I wrote was incorrect. It should be: "The Base game and Intrigue each contain..."

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2016, 05:56:24 pm »
+1

I found several explanations of the rules on this, and they were all pretty convoluted compared to this simple one that nevertheless seems to be correct: http://www.really-learn-english.com/each-singular-or-plural.html

In my case rule number 2 applies. (The pronoun "each" acts in apposition to a plural subject.) So what I wrote was incorrect. It should be: "The Base game and Intrigue each contain..."

The bigger point is that the wording itself is slightly awkward.  I think moving 'each' to the beginning (or, better yet, using 'both'; any of Polk's suggestions really) makes the sentence more direct to read.

The general principle of expository writing is you want to minimize the number of times a reader can get caught up on your wording and get confused, think there's a mistake, or simply wonder why it's written a certain way.  If you have to put in a lot of effort to figure out how this word is being used, or what part of speech it is, or whether or not it's even grammatically correct, then that's a good indication that a reader may get stopped here and that a simpler construction may be better.
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Jeebus

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2016, 06:16:18 pm »
0

The bigger point is that the wording itself is slightly awkward.  I think moving 'each' to the beginning (or, better yet, using 'both'; any of Polk's suggestions really) makes the sentence more direct to read.

I'm not sure all his suggestions are better.

1) "The Base game and Intrigue contain..."
2) "Each of the Base game and Intrigue contains..."
3) "Both the base game and Intrigue contain..."

1) This one is definitely misleading, because it seems like it could refer to the contents for both sets collectively.
2) What I wrote seems to me to flow better. But this suggestion takes a singular verb according to the grammatical rule, so I guess that makes it clearer.
3) I'm not convinced that using "both" rather than "each" doesn't reduce clarity, since "both" might be understood as "in sum".

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2016, 06:38:48 pm »
+1

The bigger point is that the wording itself is slightly awkward.  I think moving 'each' to the beginning (or, better yet, using 'both'; any of Polk's suggestions really) makes the sentence more direct to read.

I'm not sure all his suggestions are better.

1) "The Base game and Intrigue contain..."
2) "Each of the Base game and Intrigue contains..."
3) "Both the base game and Intrigue contain..."

1) This one is definitely misleading, because it seems like it could refer to the contents for both sets collectively.
2) What I wrote seems to me to flow better. But this suggestion takes a singular verb according to the grammatical rule, so I guess that makes it clearer.
3) I'm not convinced that using "both" rather than "each" doesn't reduce clarity, since "both" might be understood as "in sum".

I understand that the alternate interpretation for (1) is there; I just don't think anyone would ever interpret it that way.  And, technically, or formally, or whateverly, the alternate interpretation isn't really right: 'and' is like an intersection, so both the things contain the following thing.

I would say that 'both' means precisely 'each' when the number of things in the set is two.  Well, I believe you could construct a sentence where there is ambiguity, but I don't think this is one of them.

I think that (2) flows better because you don't have to wonder what the subject is. 

Of course, a big part of these things is just personal preference.
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2017, 06:58:41 pm »
+1

Version 3.1 is now up. Most of the changes have to do with the second edition of the cards.

Complete Rules for Dominion and All Its Expansions

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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2017, 05:03:06 pm »
+2

I have actually read the whole thing this time, and after an extensive review, this is what I have for you:
Missing Info:
Page 3, indented text: Events and landmarks are not considered cards...

Formatting:
Page 46, Governor reference: In option three, both instances of "remodel" should be green.

Word Choice:
Page 11, Indented Text: ...the Traveler Upgrades...
Page 42, Doctor: ...cards that have the chosen name...
Page 44, Farming Village: there is an instance of "this" that should not be in the erratum paragraph: "See this Your -1 Card token."

As an additional note, you keep using Feast as an example for BoM leaving play, when Feast is not in the 2nd editions. I would try to find a different example for newer players who don't have access to that card anymore.
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Re: Introducing a new rules document
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2017, 06:43:33 pm »
+1

I have actually read the whole thing this time, and after an extensive review, this is what I have for you:
Missing Info:
Page 3, indented text: Events and landmarks are not considered cards...

Here I thought it was only necessary to specify Events, since you can actually buy those. There are effects that refer to buying cards and costs of cards. I don't think there's any text in the game where you could be confused by not realizing a Landmark is not a card.

As an additional note, you keep using Feast as an example for BoM leaving play, when Feast is not in the 2nd editions. I would try to find a different example for newer players who don't have access to that card anymore.

This was something I was too lazy to do, I guess, since I referenced Feast a lot. I already fixed some references to old cards, like Secret Chamber and Chancellor. But okay, I went though and fixed everything now, using Embargo instead of Feast, and also references to Saboteur and Spy.

Thanks again!

New version will be uploaded upon publication of the next expansion, or the next major overhaul of old cards, whichever comes first. :)
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