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[tastor]

Hmm?  I mean it doesn't have to be 'played as an Action' or 'played as a Treasure' as different things.  It's just played, as both an Action and a Treasure, whether or not you play it in your Action phase or your Buy phase.

Hah yeah sorry I was agreeing with you. I was trying to think through the other scenarios where "you can't make an action-treasure because it would matter when you play it" actually mattered and was coming up blank. I agree that just being a treasure that you could play during your action or buy phase works fine.

[jsh357]

I think you people are going to be OK with the bidding as it is. I just have a hunch. And even if you aren't, well, not every game will have it.

[ben_king]

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Personally, I thought Donald implemented these things in a very thoughtful way.  For me, it makes Dominion more fun, rather than less.

[tastor]

The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Yeah but I highly doubt that is what it is going to be, although obviously I don't have the information. The entirety of Dominion thus far has been designed towards eliminating politics and that kind of bidding war seems like it would lead to it ("don't let Bob win that bid! he is already winning!" etc)

But even if it is it will likely only be on a few cards or events and you can always just not play with those cards. Like Donald always says (roughly) "there need to be hated cards if there are going to be loved cards"; some people may like the bidding and some may hate it but there are plenty of cards to play with if you hate it!

[Elestan]

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Like LF, I generally dislike bidding mechanics, but I have no problem with how they are used in Empires.

[Kirian]

All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...

[ObtusePunubiris]

The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

But even if it is it will likely only be on a few cards or events and you can always just not play with those cards. Like Donald always says (roughly) "there need to be hated cards if there are going to be loved cards"; some people may like the bidding and some may hate it but there are plenty of cards to play with if you hate it!

Except that I am a huge fan of full random, with all cards available kingdoms.  I would have to hate a card really bad to ban it.  In any event, I'm encouraged by some of the other comments about bidding, so open mind and all that.  Besides, even if I don't like bidding, I'm sure I'll dig everything else about this expansion, just as I have with every other one.

[xyz123]

What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.

[JW]

What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.

You can always draw 5 Golds. And think how happy you'd be, for once!

[xyz123]

What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.

You can always draw 5 Golds. And think how happy you'd be, for once!

Doh, brain not working today. When I thought about it my brain was going 5*3 is 12 for some reason.

[Witherweaver]

Hmm.. with more expensive 'buy' targets coming in through way of Events, has anyone taken to modifying the rule for when to include Platinum and Colonies? 

[GendoIkari]

What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

What's Intruigues me the most is cards with multiple types and cards that present choices when played.

[ackmondual]

Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.
- 60 VP symbols.
- 16 red hexagons.
- 10 uses of "Setup."
- 2 Duration cards.
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
- An Action-Treasure card.
- An Event costing $14.
- A way to double your money.
- A way to bid.

Oddly enough, the Duration cards still stand out more than anything else on this list!!!

PLEASE OH PLEASE let there be more Alayna Lemmer art. I love her stuff so much.

Can you list some specific cards that stand out that Alayna Lemmer did the art for?

EDIT: clarification

[ObtusePunubiris]

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/List_of_illustrators

[Donald X.]

All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...

It would certainly be great for me personally if, from this point on, people who know stuff about the unpublished unspoiled cards could manage somehow to not talk about them.

[Haddock]

I think the bidding and the doubling are probably linked:
Like, at the start of your turn, you may bid an amount. If you have (done something) at least that many times by the start of your buy phase, double your coin.

That would be OK.

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

[Awaclus]

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.

[Haddock]

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.

Derp. True. I was trying to generalise a slightly more specific idea that didnt have that issue, but had its own issues.  Anyway. Yeah. An exact bid.

[Willvon]

I think am most intrigued in the "2 ways to trash cards from the supply". That really enhances the chance of a quick 3-pile ending.

[Willvon]

Admittedly, there are plenty of ways to get to $14 on a turn, but do you think it could be possible that we will get a new treasure that gives you $6 or 7$ similar to Platinum coming out with Colonies?

[scott_pilgrim]

I'm guessing the Landmarks are the bidding thing.  Each Landmark has a unique effect like "At the start of each of your turns, +1 card".  At the start of the game, you put out n Landmarks for n players (if you draw a random Empires card from the 10 kingdom cards, like determining whether to play with Shelters or Platinum/Colonies).  Then, players bid VP on an available Landmark.  You take turns bidding (like in Evo and probably other games that use that mechanic) until one player is stuck with the last Landmark for 0 VP.  Everyone else starts the game with negative VP equal to their bid, and whatever Landmark they won.

I don't think the bidding will be for cards in the game.  Possibly for events, but I sort of doubt that too.  It would slow the game down a lot and might feel unfair if the bidding happens at the wrong time (on a bad hand or whatever).  Bidding is a totally new mechanic and Landmarks are a totally new thing, so it would make sense that they go together.

[Ankenaut]

Admittedly, there are plenty of ways to get to $14 on a turn, but do you think it could be possible that we will get a new treasure that gives you $6 or 7$ similar to Platinum coming out with Colonies?

Have a Gold and two Silvers? Just double your money. Bam $14. I hope this event is called Inflation.

[eHalcyon]

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.

Derp. True. I was trying to generalise a slightly more specific idea that didnt have that issue, but had its own issues.  Anyway. Yeah. An exact bid.

It could be something that doubles the amount you bid if you succeed.  Bid high (or all in) for high risk, high reward.

[Kirian]

All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...

It would certainly be great for me personally if, from this point on, people who know stuff about the unpublished unspoiled cards could manage somehow to not talk about them.

To be fair to all of them, the only thing they've said in this thread is "Guys, don't freak out about $mechanism.  Trust Donald."

[liopoil]

uh bidding should be interesting. I like it in other games, though I wonder how it can work in Dominion.