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Author Topic: Teasers!  (Read 38942 times)

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pacovf

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2016, 11:20:06 am »
+5

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GendoIkari

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2016, 11:24:23 am »
+4

Sometimes I think that Donald bases his ideas specifically off the things that people talk about and say "you can't do that, such a thing can't work in Dominion". First it was a card costing $7. Then it was a card costing $1, and Graverobber with gaining things from the trash. Then Ratcatcher with a cheap cantrip trasher. Now an Action-Treasure. Pretty sure Duration-attacks are in there too.
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werothegreat

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2016, 11:26:04 am »
+23

I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."
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Witherweaver

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2016, 11:29:47 am »
+2

I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

They wanted to be able to Expand, but not Remodel, a Colony into the Event.
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Watno

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2016, 11:38:38 am »
0

There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)


There's also the piles that contain 2 types of cards, so I don't think we can draw any conlcusions without knowing how many of these there are.
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werothegreat

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2016, 11:40:08 am »
0

There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

Where did you get 296 from?  Has Donald said there are 4 blank cards?
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tastor

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2016, 11:47:00 am »
+1


- 60 VP symbols.

Only 16 cards don't have VP symbols ;D. I'm assuming bishop would be counted as 2, so it's more likely only about 30 of the cards have VP symbols.

I was thinking he is being clever and there are 6 kingdom cards with VP symbols on them, 10 cards in each pile for a total of 60. Or yeah, there are a lot of cards with double (maybe even triple?) VP symbols on them. Maybe a Victory card that also gives you VP tokens? And then don't forget the new events, those could have ways to directly buy VP tokens from the pile.

Jeez 60 is still a ton though if we're talking about symbols on unique cards.

Quote
- 2 Duration cards.

Yes! I was scared adventures would be the last of them. Probably they refer to new tokens, or they would have been in adventures.

I was thinking one of these has to be VP token based. Maybe like a reverse Swamp Hag? While it's out and people buy stuff, you get a VP token per card bought.

Man I love VP tokens though, really looking forward to the previews next week.
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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2016, 11:48:39 am »
+1

$14 Event!

Man, that's expensive.

I'm curious how this bidding card works.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2016, 11:53:32 am »
0

Maybe it is an event that lets you choose a card to bid for, and players bid in order how many debt tokens they will take to buy it.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2016, 11:55:10 am »
+3

$14 Event!

Man, that's expensive.

I'm curious how this bidding card works.

I'll give you $10 for it.
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amoffett11

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2016, 12:02:25 pm »
+6

I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

My guess is the $14 cost is because it's $3 more than Colony, which is $3 more than Province, which is $3 more than Duchy and so on.  So the Event is probably a source of VP, perhaps as simple as $14-> Take X VP chips, where X is some number.  My guess is that the tough decision wasn't what the Event the should cost, but rather what number of VP was a fair number, keeping in mind that a deck that reliably hits $14 every turn could add points indefinitely without bring the game to an end. 

Actually, this can't quite be it.  You could have two opponents just going back and forth buying the event, with the game never coming to a conclusion.  Maybe it's $14 -> Take X VP, trash a Victory Card from the supply, where the Victory card is either something you choose, or something predetermined like Province.  So you're adding some number of VP (is 6 too few?  is 10 too many?), a Province is removed, bringing the game closer to its end, but now you don't have a Province cluttering up your deck.  This is my guess. 
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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2016, 12:08:14 pm »
+1

I'm guessing that the red hexagons are the landmarks.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2016, 12:32:04 pm »
+1

I bet Donald is enjoying himself, hearing everyone come up with crazy theories and ideas.
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Hibernator

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2016, 12:36:22 pm »
+2

I bet Donald is enjoying himself, hearing everyone come up with crazy theories and ideas.

Here's another one for the 14 coins event: gain two provinces, putting them on top of your deck.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2016, 12:37:35 pm »
0

There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

That's definitely a lot of artwork. If a pile has "two different cards" then you might get 3 different pieces of art - one for each of the two cards and one for the randomizer, sort of like how the Knights randomizer has unique art. Still, that would be a lot of piles with more than one card or lots more events/landmarks than Adventures had.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2016, 12:39:27 pm »
+1

23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2016, 12:40:11 pm »
+5

The trick is that all but 1 card just have a blank white space instead of art, while that 1 card has a mosaic.
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Kirian

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2016, 12:48:05 pm »
+3

There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

15 Landmarks, 60 Events, and one Action-Treasure pile with 221 cards in it.
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Elanchana

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2016, 01:18:35 pm »
+2

PLEASE OH PLEASE let there be more Alayna Lemmer art. I love her stuff so much.

The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them. But enough on that.

Moar.
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crj

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2016, 01:40:27 pm »
0

I'm guessing the action-treasure involves a choice, like it's either $2 used as a treasure or $3 used as an action.
Given the well-understood issues with making an Action-Treasure (particularly, in your Buy phase, being able to tell whether it was played as an Action or as a Treasure) I strongly suspect it won't stay in play when played as an Action. It probably self-trashes, or returns to the supply, or turns into something else, or whatever.

e.g.

Weasel (Action Treasure, cost $4)
    Played as Treasure: $2
    Played as an Action: Trash this card. Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2016, 01:43:36 pm »
+3

I'm guessing the action-treasure involves a choice, like it's either $2 used as a treasure or $3 used as an action.
Given the well-understood issues with making an Action-Treasure (particularly, in your Buy phase, being able to tell whether it was played as an Action or as a Treasure) I strongly suspect it won't stay in play when played as an Action. It probably self-trashes, or returns to the supply, or turns into something else, or whatever.

e.g.

Weasel (Action Treasure, cost $4)
    Played as Treasure: $2
    Played as an Action: Trash this card. Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.

Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.
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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2016, 01:48:03 pm »
0

I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

My guess is the $14 cost is because it's $3 more than Colony, which is $3 more than Province, which is $3 more than Duchy and so on.  So the Event is probably a source of VP, perhaps as simple as $14-> Take X VP chips, where X is some number.  My guess is that the tough decision wasn't what the Event the should cost, but rather what number of VP was a fair number, keeping in mind that a deck that reliably hits $14 every turn could add points indefinitely without bring the game to an end. 

Actually, this can't quite be it.  You could have two opponents just going back and forth buying the event, with the game never coming to a conclusion.  Maybe it's $14 -> Take X VP, trash a Victory Card from the supply, where the Victory card is either something you choose, or something predetermined like Province.  So you're adding some number of VP (is 6 too few?  is 10 too many?), a Province is removed, bringing the game closer to its end, but now you don't have a Province cluttering up your deck.  This is my guess.

My guess this is the way to extend the game for an engine that is running out of time.  Maybe a one-time event:  Add 6 Provinces to the Province pile.  Gain a Province.  Remove this event from the game.
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tastor

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2016, 01:50:01 pm »
0

Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.

Yeah I'm not sure I get it either. It is obviously an issue for things like Tactician but in that case you can't play anything after Tac hits the table since you have to discard your remaining hand. I can't think of another card where it would matter what order you played it, something like Conspirator is already checking the order and the effect happens at that point, Bank likewise worries about the order you play treasures but, again, not in a way where "do you remember if you played this as a treasure or an action?" would matter. There are plenty of decision cards like Pawn and Nobles where you have to track the choice you've made and those aren't a huge problem either.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2016, 01:54:37 pm »
+2

Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.

Yeah I'm not sure I get it either. It is obviously an issue for things like Tactician but in that case you can't play anything after Tac hits the table since you have to discard your remaining hand. I can't think of another card where it would matter what order you played it, something like Conspirator is already checking the order and the effect happens at that point, Bank likewise worries about the order you play treasures but, again, not in a way where "do you remember if you played this as a treasure or an action?" would matter. There are plenty of decision cards like Pawn and Nobles where you have to track the choice you've made and those aren't a huge problem either.

Hmm?  I mean it doesn't have to be 'played as an Action' or 'played as a Treasure' as different things.  It's just played, as both an Action and a Treasure, whether or not you play it in your Action phase or your Buy phase. 
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Teasers!
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2016, 02:09:21 pm »
0

The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.
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