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Author Topic: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?  (Read 9019 times)

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Kirian

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Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« on: May 04, 2016, 03:08:47 pm »
+3

I feel some of the best parts about playing online are that during big enginey turns, it (1) remembers decisions you made (e.g. Pawn), (2) keeps track of crazy stuff (Procession-Procession-Bandit Camp-...), and (3) enforces weird rules (or at least tries to), so that you don't have to keep track of such things as carefully as you would IRL.  As such, would an online-only promo utilize decisions, crazy stuff, and weird rules (more so than typical cards, at least)?
No, it would have to be something that could not be done in the physical version - not just something that would suck in the physical version due to memory issues etc.

My previous example was a card that modified itself each time you played it... and then I made that in the physical version.

But uh let's not try to figure this out here dude, there's a forum for homemade cards.


OK, so let's have a thread to propose cards that would have to be online-only.  What will it take?  RNG outside the deck could work, but why do it when we already have RNG that uses the deck (Harverst, Tribute).  As noted above, something that modifies itself as you play it doesn't work either, that can be done in cards (Travellers).  So what else?

My first thought is Nerubian Prophet (from Hearthstone); it's cost decreases every turn it's in your hand.  Well, thing don't stay in your hand in Dominion, but we can use drawing instead.  So how about this:

Dread Gazebo
$2 - Action

Choose X:  +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, +1 Buy.  Your choices may be the same or different.

--------

When you buy this, X is 0.  Each time you draw this card, X increases by 1.

Each of your Dread Gazebos can have a different X, and which one is which is all but impossible to track by hand.

But can it be done?  Do we have to go farther out?  What do you all think?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 03:31:46 pm »
+3

When I was trying to come up with the simplest possible such card, I had:

???: Treasure, $?
Worth $1 per time you've played this (counting this one).
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 03:36:02 pm »
0

These remind me of Miser.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 03:47:10 pm »
+2

A card could access hidden information (like the number of a certain type of card in your deck) and produce a resource based on that. For example:

Collectible
Treasure - $7
Worth $1 per Collectible you have.

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 05:12:32 pm »
0

Changing cards to a more individual level than what Travellers do would also be cool.

Chimera - Action 5c
Trash two Action cards from your hand.
This card's text and type are replaced by the union of the types and texts of those cards.

Maybe add a clause against Chimerizing Chimeras, or maybe not.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 05:40:54 pm »
0

Cards that operate differently based on your deck size or how many of X you have at any given moment are boons.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 06:01:48 pm »
+8

It's not that hard to think of effects.

You could have effects on decks.
Like the attack Delayer: "Name a card. Each such card in opponents' decks that has a card with another name under it is swapped with that other card." (So it takes longer times for opponents to get the card you mentioned.)

You could have cards with mandatory negative reactions. Like a good action card but with the drawback that if someone plays an Attack / gains a Duchy / plays that very card / or something else... you have to discard it (or gain a Ruins, or ...)
Or other cards with forced actions that don't have to have a different backside because of it. Like an Action card that you have to play at the first opportunity.

You could have the game disclose some information that isn't normally available. Like an enhanced Mystic where you get to know the cost of your top card before trying to name it. Or a Spy that only tells you the cost of the spied cards. (Is that $8 card a Province or a Peddler?)

Or just actions that do different things depending on circumstances that don't have to be disclosed to opponents. (Something similar to Hunting Party or Menagerie without disclosing your hand.) It could be something that isn't disclosed to you either. Something Tribute-like that does things depending on the top card of opponent's deck without showing it. Maybe you don't even get to know what it did. You get a copy of the lowest card costing $3 to $6 in your left opponent's deck put at the bottom of your own deck. It could take a while until you see what it was. (This should be a new copy made, not taken from a pile.)

Cards that change other cards. The Silverizer that converts your topmost Copper in your deck (if there are any) into a Silver. Or the Enabler that changes all your Foos into Bars.

Etc. etc.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 08:17:57 pm »
+5

How about a pile with infinite depth? It never runs out. Maybe the abilities and/or cost change as more cards are gained.

I proposed piles like that here but was thinking of a necessarily finite pile: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15195.0
Surely you could make something that could scale arbitrarily high.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 08:23:01 pm »
+3

Or, how about a card/event that gave a stash-like ability to another card - it could change its back color or something.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 09:27:05 pm »
+16

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 11:42:46 pm »
+1

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.

 Very easy to pile out if you're more than 10 points ahead! Sounds fun. 

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 12:43:39 am »
+3

It may be fun to try to figure out how to implement these IRL.  Some of these implementations may still suck, but Donald said that just being bad IRL isn't enough reason to make it as an online-only card (here).

When I was trying to come up with the simplest possible such card, I had:

???: Treasure, $?
Worth $1 per time you've played this (counting this one).

Each card in the pile has an identifier (A-J or 1-10).  The card text says to increment the corresponding counter when you play it.  The counter could be done with tokens, or just tally on paper or something.

A card could access hidden information (like the number of a certain type of card in your deck) and produce a resource based on that. For example:

Collectible
Treasure - $7
Worth $1 per Collectible you have.

That information isn't hidden except with Masquerade.  Again, a simple counter is enough.  Add to the counter whenever you gain a Collectible, remove whenever you lose one.  Masquerade is a potential hitch, but only with 3+ players.  That's pretty easy to rule over though, either not affecting your Collectible counter or requiring you to disclose it.  People would rarely be passing that card anyway.

Changing cards to a more individual level than what Travellers do would also be cool.

Chimera - Action 5c
Trash two Action cards from your hand.
This card's text and type are replaced by the union of the types and texts of those cards.

Maybe add a clause against Chimerizing Chimeras, or maybe not.

So it's supposed to permanently change Chimera?  Again, individually label the Chimera cards.  Have a token for each one.  When you trigger the "merging" of the cards, set them aside together instead of trashing them and put the corresponding token on those cards.

Cards that operate differently based on your deck size or how many of X you have at any given moment are boons.

Those don't require a computer to track though.

It's not that hard to think of effects.

You could have effects on decks.
Like the attack Delayer: "Name a card. Each such card in opponents' decks that has a card with another name under it is swapped with that other card." (So it takes longer times for opponents to get the card you mentioned.)

You could have cards with mandatory negative reactions. Like a good action card but with the drawback that if someone plays an Attack / gains a Duchy / plays that very card / or something else... you have to discard it (or gain a Ruins, or ...)
Or other cards with forced actions that don't have to have a different backside because of it. Like an Action card that you have to play at the first opportunity.

You could have the game disclose some information that isn't normally available. Like an enhanced Mystic where you get to know the cost of your top card before trying to name it. Or a Spy that only tells you the cost of the spied cards. (Is that $8 card a Province or a Peddler?)

Or just actions that do different things depending on circumstances that don't have to be disclosed to opponents. (Something similar to Hunting Party or Menagerie without disclosing your hand.) It could be something that isn't disclosed to you either. Something Tribute-like that does things depending on the top card of opponent's deck without showing it. Maybe you don't even get to know what it did. You get a copy of the lowest card costing $3 to $6 in your left opponent's deck put at the bottom of your own deck. It could take a while until you see what it was. (This should be a new copy made, not taken from a pile.)

Cards that change other cards. The Silverizer that converts your topmost Copper in your deck (if there are any) into a Silver. Or the Enabler that changes all your Foos into Bars.

Etc. etc.

The conditions on Delayer are difficult enough that I don't think there's a way to do it IRL without being totally unreasonable, as opposed to just being somewhat unreasonable. :P

Mandatory negatives is good.

The partial knowledge thing like enhanced Mystic or nerfed Spy could sort of be done IRL if other players can be trusted to disclose that information honestly, but this is my favourite concept for this so far.

The undisclosed info stuff works well.

Silverizer can be implemented IRL.  Play Silverizer, get a Silverizer token.  Whenever you draw or reveal a Copper, you must return a Silverizer token if you have one to swap it for a Silver.  This is not entirely enforceable, but trying to get around it means hiding a Copper in your hand instead of playing it that turn, lest your deception be revealed.

Enabler can be done similarly.  However, this general idea can work if you make changes that aren't just card replacements, e.g. a Teacher that teaches a specific copy of a card.

How about a pile with infinite depth? It never runs out. Maybe the abilities and/or cost change as more cards are gained.

I proposed piles like that here but was thinking of a necessarily finite pile: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15195.0
Surely you could make something that could scale arbitrarily high.

Infinite depth alone isn't enough -- note that treasure piles were originally meant to be infinite, but were made finite because reality.  So the IRL implementation would just give the pile ~40 copies and just deal with those rare times when the pile runs out.

But having copies of the card slowly change and scale infinitely as you go deeper into the pile, that works well.

Or, how about a card/event that gave a stash-like ability to another card - it could change its back color or something.

Have a bunch of attachable "tokens".  To Stash-ify a card, attach a token to it.  You'd need a good token design, of course.  An actual clip would work, but it risks damaging the cards.  Maybe a coloured card sleeve.

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.

Indeed!



Edit: forgot to address the Dread Gazebo from the OP, but it's another one where you just need labelled cards and corresponding counters.  It's obnoxious to handle IRL, but not impossible.  Granted, Dread Gazebo does get a boost in that the actual choices you make on-play are extra annoying to track as X gets higher.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 01:08:35 am by eHalcyon »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 12:59:05 am »
+2

Here's my idea:

Quote
Watchmaker
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For the next 5 seconds, when you play an Action card, +1 Action.

Could possibly be implemented with 10 small hourglasses or other timers, but it would be stupidly fiddly to set up and hard to track, especially if you stack multiples.
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trivialknot

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 02:25:51 am »
+2

How about a BoM variant?

Jazz Band of Misfits - $6 Action
Play this as if it were an Action card in the Supply costing less than it that you choose.  This is that card.  Forever.

Honestly I have trouble thinking of an online only effect that is actually worth doing.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 09:57:55 am »
+7

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain a random card.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 11:40:09 am by LostPhoenix »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2016, 10:26:14 am »
0

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2016, 10:43:00 am »
0

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.

I originally thought the card gained could be anything, including prizes in non-Tournament games, basic cards, cards you do not own, colonies, and platinum. Perhaps the card should be the equivalent of shuffling the randomizer deck and gaining the top card.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2016, 10:53:01 am »
+1

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.

I think a lot of people would expect that card to give you any Kingdom card regardless of whether or not it is being used in the game and whether or not you own it.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2016, 11:27:32 am »
+6

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)


I like it, it enables all sort of powerful combos like Queen of Hearts - NATO - Vomitorium - Sheep.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 11:28:33 am by Accatitippi »
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Kirian

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 12:06:04 pm »
+2

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)


I like it, it enables all sort of powerful combos like Queen of Hearts - NATO - Vomitorium - Sheep.

Maybe but then you have to get all four of those from Unstable Portals, talk about extreme luck.

Oh, and hope you don't draw New Earth, or power plant 21, or an Epidemic, because then your combo is screwed.
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Kirian

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 12:08:14 pm »
+1

Somewhere there is a game to be made out of combining these cards and figuring out how they work together.  That game is probably a very long Nomic.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2016, 12:41:32 pm »
+1

To get a random card, just make something like a Black Market deck. Shuffle it, put it face down, and gain the top card.

The first fan card I ever made (but haven't posted here - just with my IRL group) was a card that let you gain a random card from a pile like that that was half good cards and half junk. We played lots of games with it, including variations with a second pile of even better cards (including Tournament prizes) and a small number of made-up really really nasty cards, but the only way to get a card from that pile was to get a Golden Ticket from the first pile. It was lots of fun, but obviously super swingy, so most people here wouldn't like it.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2016, 01:07:59 pm »
+3

Gemini
$7 - Event
Once per shuffle: Name a non-Victory Action card.  During your next shuffle, your deck has twice as many copies of that card.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2016, 02:13:55 pm »
+7

I feel some of the best parts about playing online are that during big enginey turns, it (1) remembers decisions you made (e.g. Pawn), (2) keeps track of crazy stuff (Procession-Procession-Bandit Camp-...), and (3) enforces weird rules (or at least tries to), so that you don't have to keep track of such things as carefully as you would IRL.  As such, would an online-only promo utilize decisions, crazy stuff, and weird rules (more so than typical cards, at least)?
No, it would have to be something that could not be done in the physical version - not just something that would suck in the physical version due to memory issues etc.

My previous example was a card that modified itself each time you played it... and then I made that in the physical version.

But uh let's not try to figure this out here dude, there's a forum for homemade cards.

Dread Gazebo
$2 - Action

Choose X:  +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, +1 Buy.  Your choices may be the same or different.
Nah.  All you have to do is name each one differently, and have a mat with Pirate Ship tokens for each one.  The game would be a moderate deal more tedious than a game without it, but still manageable by hand.

On the other hand I've got a card idea that I'm pretty sure in a multiplayer game with enough engine pieces, no one would dare use unless they were playing online, check it out.

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2016, 02:37:12 pm »
0

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.

That's literally Scrying Pool.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2016, 02:43:06 pm »
+12

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.

That's literally Scrying Pool.

That's the joke.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2016, 03:03:18 pm »
0

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.

That's literally Scrying Pool.

That's the joke.

I was explaining the joke.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2016, 04:23:22 pm »
+3

Something that references something that's not related to the Kingdom or in-game stuff:

Handicap
$3 - Treasure
Worth ⌊$100/((your Iso-rating) - (lowest Iso-rating))⌋

Insomniac
$5 - Victory
Worth (number of games you've won in the past 24 hours) - (number of games you've lost in the past 24 hours) VP, but not less than 0.

Moneyspender
$7 - Action
+1 Action per set you own
+1 Card per Promo you own

etc.

Oh and there's also Seasons, which would be a real pain to have to keep track of IRL, although not impossible.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 04:31:56 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2016, 04:39:47 pm »
+16

Noble Intentions
$4 - Event
Take another turn after this one, in which Lord Bottington makes all of your decisions.
(Lord Bottington will never buy this Event.)

Regent
$5 - Action-Attack
+$3
Each other player immediately takes an extra turn, in which Lord Bottington makes all of that player's decisions.

Setup: Add the Rats pile to the Supply.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2016, 05:02:39 pm »
+5

One of the simpler changes is that players don't need to reveal their hands. The online system will enforce the rules without the players needing to show their honesty.

The draw deck seems to be a potential area for new cards. You could have a venture that takes the top treasure card from the draw deck without changing the rest of the draw deck. You could have a counting house that takes all the copper from the draw deck instead of the discard pile. You could have a pearl diver that lets you look at the bottom card of the deck and then choose to reverse the ordering of the entire draw deck.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2016, 05:11:58 pm »
+9

Noble Intentions
$4 - Event
Take another turn after this one, in which Lord Bottington makes all of your decisions.
(Lord Bottington will never buy this Event.)

This one. Make it a promo, make it optional, make it happen only on April 1st, but please make it happen.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2016, 05:22:26 pm »
0

One of the simpler changes is that players don't need to reveal their hands. The online system will enforce the rules without the players needing to show their honesty.

The draw deck seems to be a potential area for new cards. You could have a venture that takes the top treasure card from the draw deck without changing the rest of the draw deck. You could have a counting house that takes all the copper from the draw deck instead of the discard pile. You could have a pearl diver that lets you look at the bottom card of the deck and then choose to reverse the ordering of the entire draw deck.

The only thing is that outside the Venture, all of those aren't very good at all. And that Venture idea will have to cost $6.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2016, 06:32:46 pm »
+1

Noble Intentions
$4 - Event
Take another turn after this one, in which Lord Bottington makes all of your decisions.
(Lord Bottington will never buy this Event.)

This one. Make it a promo, make it optional, make it happen only on April 1st, but please make it happen.

It sounds like a RBCI, but I really think it could work.  If you can trust that Lord Bottington won't totally destroy your deck, it can work out by providing additional cycling and an extra gain (that is hopefully useful).  With some simple decks, you could expect it to be even better.  Note that you can buy multiples and have all of them take effect, even if you've had multiple turns already (e.g. you can get the Bottington turn even after Mission/Outpost).

I wonder if Lord Bottington will be in the new implementation.  This Event would be much less fun if the AI becomes too competent.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 06:34:00 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2016, 08:50:59 pm »
+1

Moneyspender
$7 - Action
+1 Action per set you own
+1 Card per Promo you own.

Or you could have a card that you actually pay to make it better for yourself. Or one that's really good but you have to pay MF (or Shuffle iT) $1 whenever you play it.

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2016, 10:21:24 pm »
0

Noble Intentions
$4 - Event
Take another turn after this one, in which Lord Bottington makes all of your decisions.
(Lord Bottington will never buy this Event.)

This one. Make it a promo, make it optional, make it happen only on April 1st, but please make it happen.

Note that you can buy multiples and have all of them take effect, even if you've had multiple turns already (e.g. you can get the Bottington turn even after Mission/Outpost).

This would probably need to have a "once per turn" clause.  It'd be a bit too easy to get $16 and four buys and just buy this four times.  I'm guessing Lord Bottington won't pass up Provinces.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2016, 12:19:42 am »
+2

Noble Intentions
$4 - Event
Take another turn after this one, in which Lord Bottington makes all of your decisions.
(Lord Bottington will never buy this Event.)

This one. Make it a promo, make it optional, make it happen only on April 1st, but please make it happen.

Note that you can buy multiples and have all of them take effect, even if you've had multiple turns already (e.g. you can get the Bottington turn even after Mission/Outpost).

This would probably need to have a "once per turn" clause.  It'd be a bit too easy to get $16 and four buys and just buy this four times.  I'm guessing Lord Bottington won't pass up Provinces.

You still need to make a deck where Lord Bottington is able to reach Province.  Note that if you have $16 and 4 buys, you could have just reliably bought 2 Provinces yourself.  If you have a deck strong enough and simple enough for Bottington to reach $8 on each of his four turns, I think you deserve your 2 extra Provinces.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2016, 02:27:00 pm »
+2

This is the one I came up with a while back. It let's you to know if you're winning or not if you're bad at counting cards like I am.

Quote
Canary
Action -
+2 Action
If the game were to end immediately...
If any opponent has more victory points than you, +1 Card and you may trash one card
If all opponents have more victory points than you, +1 Card and you may trash one card
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2016, 03:38:37 pm »
+1

A good online only card would be that one with a highly difficult cheatcheck that people told me I couldn't make.  It had the downside that if you discarded it from your hand without playing it, something bad would happen, so IRL you could just tuck it under an Estate and discard it at the end of your turn.

I had a funner balanced design I can't remember, but a rough example would be

3$ Jungle Miner
+1 Buy
If you discard this during Cleanup, gain a Curse.
_______________________________________
When you buy this, gain two Golds.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2016, 03:54:53 pm »
0

This is the one I came up with a while back. It let's you to know if you're winning or not if you're bad at counting cards like I am.

Quote
Canary
Action -
+2 Action
If the game were to end immediately...
If any opponent has more victory points than you, +1 Card and you may trash one card
If all opponents have more victory points than you, +1 Card and you may trash one card

In some cases, that would reward players that are thin and winning.  So like say I Remake my Estates early, and my opponent has to Remake Coppers.  I am ahead, and this card will make me ahead by even more.  And I don't like that mechanic.  Of course, there would be cases when you're behind and then it helps you, which is what it seems like you're intending it to do.  But only sometimes.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2016, 04:42:15 pm »
0

Irongamer
Action - Attack -$4

+1 action

If you run Online Dominion on...

...OS X, +1$
...Linux, all Action cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0
...iOS, your opponent chooses a pile from the supply. You may not buy cards from that pile this turn
...Android, +1 card

Each player who runs Online Dominion on Windows gains a Curse.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2016, 06:13:43 pm »
+4

Matthew Fisher (Caltech/Stanford/Hertz fellowship) built an AI that evaluates new cards on the fly.

If you haven't seen it, check it out here:
https://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/DominionAI.html#EvaluatingNewCards
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2016, 06:50:40 pm »
+1

Matthew Fisher (Caltech/Stanford/Hertz fellowship) built an AI that evaluates new cards on the fly.

If you haven't seen it, check it out here:
https://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/DominionAI.html#EvaluatingNewCards

Extremely cool.
It looks terrible at tactics, though. I suspect simple three-piling and penultimate-provincing are not even considered in the code.
And vp-tokens, by the look of its dominant strategy for the Goons board.
It also doesn't react at all to its opponent.

The approach is very promising, though.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2016, 08:07:52 am »
0

Something bad:

Lemmings, $4, Victory
Worth 5 VP if you own more Lemmings than any other player at the end of the game.
(This pile has infinite cards)

One of the simpler changes is that players don't need to reveal their hands. The online system will enforce the rules without the players needing to show their honesty.

The draw deck seems to be a potential area for new cards. You could have a venture that takes the top treasure card from the draw deck without changing the rest of the draw deck. You could have a counting house that takes all the copper from the draw deck instead of the discard pile. You could have a pearl diver that lets you look at the bottom card of the deck and then choose to reverse the ordering of the entire draw deck.

The only thing is that outside the Venture, all of those aren't very good at all. And that Venture idea will have to cost $6.

Why should it cost more than original Venture when it's worse usually? Taking a certain kind of card from your draw deck without cycling or reordering is weaker than with one of those. The fact you can only use such an effect once per shuffle can balance it nicely.

Edit: It might be applicable for VP cards, though:
Boy Scout, $4, Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Put the upmost Victory card from your deck in your discard pile.

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2016, 02:11:20 pm »
+3

Philosopher's Stone.  ::)
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2016, 03:34:25 pm »
+1

Ooh, a "choose now for next time" Pawn. First time you play it, it's a market and you choose 2 of the bonuses. Each time you play it after that you get to bonus chosen last time, and choose new bonuses.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2016, 06:36:17 pm »
+2

One thing that could kinda work could be cards that let you get more than 10 copies of a specific Action card.

A really cool one could be adding "status effects" to cards, like poisoning, freezing or whatever:

Poisoner - Action Attack - 5c
+1 coin
+1 Buy
Every other player reveals cards from their Deck until they reveal an Action or Treasure card. That card gets the Poisoned type.
Discard all the revealed cards.
(when you play a poisoned card, you first gain a Curse)

Ice queen - Action - 4c
You may choose an Action card from your hand. Play it three times, and then it gets the Frozen type.
(cards with the frozen type won't have any effect the next time they are played, and then they lose the Frozen type)

Entropy Knight - Action Attack - 4c
Every other player reveals the top two cards of their deck, chooses a revealed Action card to gain the Whatever type, and then discards all the revealed cards.
(When you play cards with the Whatever type, there is a 50% chance of their effect being "+1 Card +1 Action" instead of their expected effect.)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:08:30 am by Accatitippi »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2016, 06:47:16 pm »
0

Why did you post that like 5 times?
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2016, 07:39:59 am »
+7

Why did you post that like 5 times?

I posted it in while f.ds was going down. I could read threads, but when I tried to post this the page would freeze (and the post would not appear on reloading). So I did the only logical thing I could do and tried 4 more times.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2016, 10:51:19 am »
0

Repository - Victory - $5
Worth 1VP for every $20 of the total cost of all the cards in your deck.
(round down)

Kind of bad wording, and not really online-only, but would be a real pain to count irl.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2016, 04:55:55 am »
0

It might be fun to have a card that can enlarge other piles, so you could have the power to make the game last longer. Some ideas:

Investment (Event)
Choose an Action supply pile. Add as many of these cards to that pile as you did during Setup.

New Territory (Action)
+2 Cards. Gain a Duchy. Add a Duchy to its pile.

School (Action)
Gain a Laboratory from outside the supply (there are infinite Laboratories outside the supply).



Edit: Oh, thats what Accatitippi said.
One thing that could kinda work could be cards that let you get more than 10 copies of a specific Action card.
But anyways it could be fun I think.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 05:12:22 am by market squire »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2016, 10:21:21 pm »
0

New Territory (Action)
+2 Cards. Gain a Duchy. Add a Duchy to its pile.

School (Action)
Gain a Laboratory from outside the supply (there are infinite Laboratories outside the supply).

These two do the same thing with different wording, unless you mean for there to be a finite number of Duchies that can be added.  I'm not sure which wording is better.  I initially leaned towards the second, but I think the first is more in keeping with Dominion wording.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2016, 05:41:42 pm »
+1

These two do the same thing with different wording, unless you mean for there to be a finite number of Duchies that can be added.  I'm not sure which wording is better.  I initially leaned towards the second, but I think the first is more in keeping with Dominion wording.

They don't do the exact same thing. The first one doesn't let you gain a Duchy unless there already is a Duchy in the Supply before you play it (and it certainly doesn't work for kingdom cards that aren't present in the game, unlike the latter wording).
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2016, 05:50:09 pm »
0

These two do the same thing with different wording, unless you mean for there to be a finite number of Duchies that can be added.  I'm not sure which wording is better.  I initially leaned towards the second, but I think the first is more in keeping with Dominion wording.

They don't do the exact same thing. The first one doesn't let you gain a Duchy unless there already is a Duchy in the Supply before you play it (and it certainly doesn't work for kingdom cards that aren't present in the game, unlike the latter wording).

Oh, fair enough.  Still seems like a small enough distinction that it would be better to go with one consistent wording.

Weird thing: the post you quoted seems to have disappeared from the thread, but it still appears in the Topic Summary when writng a reply.  :-\
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:51:33 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2016, 05:52:39 pm »
0

Weird thing: the post you quoted seems to have disappeared from the thread, but it still appears in the Topic Summary when writng a reply.  :-\

That's actually why I replied (to mark this thread as unread), and then I saw your post so I replied to that.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2016, 10:09:42 am »
+1

Entropy Knight - Action Attack - 4c
Every other player reveals the top two cards of their deck, chooses a revealed Action card to gain the Whatever type, and then discards all the revealed cards.
(When you play cards with the Whatever type, there is a 50% chance of their effect being "+1 Card +1 Action" instead of their expected effect.)

I was joking here, but I'm happy that Dominion is getting a way to entropize Action cards.  ;D
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2016, 02:25:59 pm »
+1

Truce
$3 - Reaction
When another player plays an Attack card, you may trash this from your hand.  If you do, that specific Attack card doesn't and won't affect you for the rest of the game.

Note: if you somehow gain that specific card (e.g. Masquerade, Amb, Graverobber) then it's just a dead card in your deck.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2016, 03:50:22 pm »
0

eHalcyon, Masquerade isn't an attack, and you could do that by setting aside a card from the supply with a dove token etc.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2016, 04:08:40 pm »
+1

eHalcyon, Masquerade isn't an attack, and you could do that by setting aside a card from the supply with a dove token etc.

Does this help:

Note: if you somehow (e.g. Masquerade, Amb, Graverobber) gain that specific card  then it's just a dead card in your deck.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2016, 04:39:22 pm »
0

eHalcyon, Masquerade isn't an attack, and you could do that by setting aside a card from the supply with a dove token etc.

Truce neutralizes a specific card, as in that specific copy of that card.  You have two Militias, you play one, I use Truce on it.  Now every time you play that Militia, it doesn't affect me... but your other Militia still does.

Masquerade is a means of gaining a card that another player currently owns, not a card that would be affected by Truce.  Suppose I play Masquerade now and you pass me the copy of Militia that I used Truce on before.  Now I own that Militia, but Truce said that it doesn't affect me when it is played.  So if I play that Militia, it doesn't give me +$2.  Now that I think about it though, I suppose it would still cause you to discard, so it's not entirely dead in your deck.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2016, 09:06:04 am »
0

Duh. Sorry, completely misunderstood what that sentence was saying.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2016, 06:57:22 pm »
+2

New online-only idea: Backtracking!

No more not daring to look at your hand before it's your turn in a Possession game, because you don't know if you'll play a normal or possessed turn with that hand. With BT-Possession your hand, deck, and other cards are restored to the same configuration afterwards, so you will get to play this hand. In fact, while being Possessed you will gain some handy information, like what's on the top of your deck.

(But what if you for example Masquerade a card during your BT-Possessed turn? No worry, the backtracker will magically find an extra copy for you. And the card that (possessed) you got during that turn is totally gone. BT-Possession doesn't need to say anything special about your cards being trashed, because you get them back as part of the normal backtracking.)

-*-

BT-Possession only restores the situation for one player (which is why it can change the total number of cards). There's also the possibility to go back in time for everyone: There's the Let's Try That Again! Event that you can buy for $7 when everything seems lost. "Restore the total game state to what it was after the first N turns, except that N is one higher. At the beginning of the game N=0. You can't buy this until after turn N".

So the first time it's like a total replay, but then more and more of the game gets fixed, until defeat is unavoidable.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2018, 03:19:14 am »
0

Taking a cue from Age Of Rivals... individual values on cards get modified throughout the game. If you tried this in IRL Dominion, you'd need a sharpie, or a sticker to change value of each of the cards.


Action portion, +$4
Reaction
Instead of taking a Curse, this card now produces 1 less coin.  If it produces $0, trash this



Another is an effect that depends on how many Victory cards each player has in their hand, deck, and discard.
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FemurLemur

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2018, 05:23:29 pm »
0

A card could access hidden information (like the number of a certain type of card in your deck) and produce a resource based on that. For example:

Collectible
Treasure - $7
Worth $1 per Collectible you have.
This one could be tracked in IRL Dominion by including "Collectible" tokens that you take when gaining a Collectible and return when losing the Collectible to the Supply, Trash, or Opponent's Hand.

Edit: should've read the whole thread first. eHalcyon already pointed this out
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 05:28:58 pm by FemurLemur »
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Freddy10

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2018, 07:55:42 pm »
+1

Gardener
$5 Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard a non-Victory card. Discarded card gains Victory type, and is worth 1vp at the end of the game.
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Holunder9

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2018, 01:36:39 am »
+1

Gardener
$5 Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard a non-Victory card. Discarded card gains Victory type, and is worth 1vp at the end of the game.
This partly fixes the problem of non-terminal cards that gain VPs as you gotta discard and as the maximum of VPs that you can gain via this card is (below) the size of your deck. Nonetheless it might be too automatic in many Kingdoms.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2018, 02:27:11 pm »
+6

Quantum Entanglement
Action - $4
+1 card
+1 action
Randomly choose another person who is not one of your opponents but who is currently playing Dominion. If the top card of their deck is a(n)...
Victory, +1 Card
Action, +1 Action
Treasure, +1 $
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2018, 11:06:02 pm »
0

Okay, I just thought of something that I'm pretty sure is impossible to simulate exactly IRL but also could actually lead to an interesting design space: What about weird constraints on shuffling?

Glue
Action - $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
During cleanup, set aside this and 2 other cards from play or your hand. When you shuffle, return the 3 set-aside cards to your deck. After shuffling, the 3 cards must be adjacent to each other in your deck.

I'm 99% sure you can't do this without a computer.
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Asper

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2018, 03:21:50 pm »
0

Okay, I just thought of something that I'm pretty sure is impossible to simulate exactly IRL but also could actually lead to an interesting design space: What about weird constraints on shuffling?

Glue
Action - $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
During cleanup, set aside this and 2 other cards from play or your hand. When you shuffle, return the 3 set-aside cards to your deck. After shuffling, the 3 cards must be adjacent to each other in your deck.

I'm 99% sure you can't do this without a computer.

Not exactly, but kind of close:

Physical Glue, $3, Action (Numbered 1 to 10)
If you have cards set aside under this card's token, shuffle them and this, then put the shuffled cards onto your deck in the shuffled order.
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
When you discard this from play, set two cards from your hand aside under its token.

MrHiTech

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2018, 09:18:30 pm »
0

Quantum Entanglement
Action - $4
+1 card
+1 action
Randomly choose another person who is not one of your opponents but who is currently playing Dominion. If the top card of their deck is a(n)...
Victory, +1 Card
Action, +1 Action
Treasure, +1 $

This might be too strong if someone had a Spy in that other game (“sure, I’d leave my Victory card on my deck for you”).
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2018, 10:27:17 pm »
+4

Time Warp
Event - $8

Once Per Game: Rewind the game to the start of your last turn. 
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2018, 12:44:05 am »
0

My original warden I guess would of only worked if it was only online. It originally let you react once for each differently named attack. There were complaints that you couldn’t keep track by writing it down. But you wouldn’t need to because the online dominion would kept track for you.

Warden was a reaction that let reveal it blocking each differently named attack played and getting +1 Card each time. Which meant if they played goons and another player played giant and then another player played swamp hag you would’ve gotten block them and draw 3 cards. But keeping track of all the attacks played would have been difficult and keeping track of it by writing it wasn’t allowed. However dominion online would have kept track of it for you and only let you react when it was new attack only.
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buckets

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2018, 01:35:15 am »
0

To get a random card, just make something like a Black Market deck. Shuffle it, put it face down, and gain the top card.
I might just start playing Black Market like this with my friends lol
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buckets

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2018, 01:38:12 am »
0

Also it seems to me that a major benefit of "online only" cards is that they do not have to keep the player honest.
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buckets

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2018, 02:16:42 am »
0

How about a treasure that's worth the average $value of the cards in your deck?
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Holunder9

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2018, 05:26:26 am »
+1

How about a treasure that's worth the average $value of the cards in your deck?
Venture already does that to some degree.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2018, 10:38:40 am »
0

Also it seems to me that a major benefit of "online only" cards is that they do not have to keep the player honest.

You're not wrong.

Generally "online only" is just a larger design space than Dominion's paper implementation and "no honesty required" rules allow.

The two benefits you have is you can build cards that require people to be honest, or cards that require a lot of tracking.

For instance, if I built a card like so:

Quote
Stock Market - $5 - Action
+$2
+$1 per Victory card you've bought since you last played Stock Market
-$1 per Stock Market you've played since the last time you played this Stock Market

Have fun with tracking that :)
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Freddy10

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2018, 08:01:14 pm »
0

You can also use hidden information, like the cards on your deck. For example "draw the last action card from your deck" (what would make better chancellor effect)
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AJD

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2018, 04:14:36 pm »
0

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
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Asper

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2018, 04:47:06 pm »
0

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
Except writing it down? Normally you'd be choosing Curse, Estate or Copper anyway, so you could even do it with tokens.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2018, 07:39:09 pm »
0

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
Except writing it down? Normally you'd be choosing Curse, Estate or Copper anyway, so you could even do it with tokens.

How could you do it with tokens? You couldn't put a token on the pile because that would reveal everything.

Writing it down secretly would work, but then would the set have to come with pencils and paper?
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crj

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2018, 09:07:20 pm »
+1

I'm not convinced about the idea itself - it sounds like it would take up too much time for the amount of fun, but if you did want to implement it, one option would be to provide, say, three tokens that looked identical from above, but one had a tick and two had a cross underneath. The player distributes those tokens between three supply piles to secretly indicate their choice.
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Freddy10

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2018, 09:43:58 pm »
+2

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
Except writing it down? Normally you'd be choosing Curse, Estate or Copper anyway, so you could even do it with tokens.

How could you do it with tokens? You couldn't put a token on the pile because that would reveal everything.

Writing it down secretly would work, but then would the set have to come with pencils and paper?

Or maybe just use the randomizer cards?
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Asper

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2018, 10:19:57 am »
0

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
Except writing it down? Normally you'd be choosing Curse, Estate or Copper anyway, so you could even do it with tokens.

How could you do it with tokens? You couldn't put a token on the pile because that would reveal everything.

Writing it down secretly would work, but then would the set have to come with pencils and paper?

Assuming that the card will only ever be used to deal out Copper, Estate or Curse, you could simplify it to give a choice only between those three. In that case, you can have a token for each in each player color, all with the same back side. Players pick one and then they all reveal the token.
As a matter of fact, you could even have each player take one copy of each card to set aside, which they then use instead of tokens.

LostPhoenix

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2018, 10:33:46 pm »
+1

My favorite online-only card idea is an attack that's like "choose a card in the supply. Each other player guesses what card you chose. Anyone who guessed wrong gains a copy of the chosen card." It has to be online-only since there's no way to keep you honest about what you guessed.
Except writing it down? Normally you'd be choosing Curse, Estate or Copper anyway, so you could even do it with tokens.

How could you do it with tokens? You couldn't put a token on the pile because that would reveal everything.

Writing it down secretly would work, but then would the set have to come with pencils and paper?

Assuming that the card will only ever be used to deal out Copper, Estate or Curse, you could simplify it to give a choice only between those three. In that case, you can have a token for each in each player color, all with the same back side. Players pick one and then they all reveal the token.
As a matter of fact, you could even have each player take one copy of each card to set aside, which they then use instead of tokens.

If a card is extremely clunky or finnicky when done IRL, then I'd consider it to be online-only. I'd say this idea fits into that category.
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