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Author Topic: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?  (Read 9223 times)

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Kirian

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Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« on: May 04, 2016, 03:08:47 pm »
+3

I feel some of the best parts about playing online are that during big enginey turns, it (1) remembers decisions you made (e.g. Pawn), (2) keeps track of crazy stuff (Procession-Procession-Bandit Camp-...), and (3) enforces weird rules (or at least tries to), so that you don't have to keep track of such things as carefully as you would IRL.  As such, would an online-only promo utilize decisions, crazy stuff, and weird rules (more so than typical cards, at least)?
No, it would have to be something that could not be done in the physical version - not just something that would suck in the physical version due to memory issues etc.

My previous example was a card that modified itself each time you played it... and then I made that in the physical version.

But uh let's not try to figure this out here dude, there's a forum for homemade cards.


OK, so let's have a thread to propose cards that would have to be online-only.  What will it take?  RNG outside the deck could work, but why do it when we already have RNG that uses the deck (Harverst, Tribute).  As noted above, something that modifies itself as you play it doesn't work either, that can be done in cards (Travellers).  So what else?

My first thought is Nerubian Prophet (from Hearthstone); it's cost decreases every turn it's in your hand.  Well, thing don't stay in your hand in Dominion, but we can use drawing instead.  So how about this:

Dread Gazebo
$2 - Action

Choose X:  +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, +1 Buy.  Your choices may be the same or different.

--------

When you buy this, X is 0.  Each time you draw this card, X increases by 1.

Each of your Dread Gazebos can have a different X, and which one is which is all but impossible to track by hand.

But can it be done?  Do we have to go farther out?  What do you all think?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 03:31:46 pm »
+3

When I was trying to come up with the simplest possible such card, I had:

???: Treasure, $?
Worth $1 per time you've played this (counting this one).
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 03:36:02 pm »
0

These remind me of Miser.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 03:47:10 pm »
+2

A card could access hidden information (like the number of a certain type of card in your deck) and produce a resource based on that. For example:

Collectible
Treasure - $7
Worth $1 per Collectible you have.

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 05:12:32 pm »
0

Changing cards to a more individual level than what Travellers do would also be cool.

Chimera - Action 5c
Trash two Action cards from your hand.
This card's text and type are replaced by the union of the types and texts of those cards.

Maybe add a clause against Chimerizing Chimeras, or maybe not.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 05:40:54 pm »
0

Cards that operate differently based on your deck size or how many of X you have at any given moment are boons.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 06:01:48 pm »
+8

It's not that hard to think of effects.

You could have effects on decks.
Like the attack Delayer: "Name a card. Each such card in opponents' decks that has a card with another name under it is swapped with that other card." (So it takes longer times for opponents to get the card you mentioned.)

You could have cards with mandatory negative reactions. Like a good action card but with the drawback that if someone plays an Attack / gains a Duchy / plays that very card / or something else... you have to discard it (or gain a Ruins, or ...)
Or other cards with forced actions that don't have to have a different backside because of it. Like an Action card that you have to play at the first opportunity.

You could have the game disclose some information that isn't normally available. Like an enhanced Mystic where you get to know the cost of your top card before trying to name it. Or a Spy that only tells you the cost of the spied cards. (Is that $8 card a Province or a Peddler?)

Or just actions that do different things depending on circumstances that don't have to be disclosed to opponents. (Something similar to Hunting Party or Menagerie without disclosing your hand.) It could be something that isn't disclosed to you either. Something Tribute-like that does things depending on the top card of opponent's deck without showing it. Maybe you don't even get to know what it did. You get a copy of the lowest card costing $3 to $6 in your left opponent's deck put at the bottom of your own deck. It could take a while until you see what it was. (This should be a new copy made, not taken from a pile.)

Cards that change other cards. The Silverizer that converts your topmost Copper in your deck (if there are any) into a Silver. Or the Enabler that changes all your Foos into Bars.

Etc. etc.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 08:17:57 pm »
+5

How about a pile with infinite depth? It never runs out. Maybe the abilities and/or cost change as more cards are gained.

I proposed piles like that here but was thinking of a necessarily finite pile: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15195.0
Surely you could make something that could scale arbitrarily high.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 08:23:01 pm »
+3

Or, how about a card/event that gave a stash-like ability to another card - it could change its back color or something.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 09:27:05 pm »
+16

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 11:42:46 pm »
+1

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.

 Very easy to pile out if you're more than 10 points ahead! Sounds fun. 

eHalcyon

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 12:43:39 am »
+3

It may be fun to try to figure out how to implement these IRL.  Some of these implementations may still suck, but Donald said that just being bad IRL isn't enough reason to make it as an online-only card (here).

When I was trying to come up with the simplest possible such card, I had:

???: Treasure, $?
Worth $1 per time you've played this (counting this one).

Each card in the pile has an identifier (A-J or 1-10).  The card text says to increment the corresponding counter when you play it.  The counter could be done with tokens, or just tally on paper or something.

A card could access hidden information (like the number of a certain type of card in your deck) and produce a resource based on that. For example:

Collectible
Treasure - $7
Worth $1 per Collectible you have.

That information isn't hidden except with Masquerade.  Again, a simple counter is enough.  Add to the counter whenever you gain a Collectible, remove whenever you lose one.  Masquerade is a potential hitch, but only with 3+ players.  That's pretty easy to rule over though, either not affecting your Collectible counter or requiring you to disclose it.  People would rarely be passing that card anyway.

Changing cards to a more individual level than what Travellers do would also be cool.

Chimera - Action 5c
Trash two Action cards from your hand.
This card's text and type are replaced by the union of the types and texts of those cards.

Maybe add a clause against Chimerizing Chimeras, or maybe not.

So it's supposed to permanently change Chimera?  Again, individually label the Chimera cards.  Have a token for each one.  When you trigger the "merging" of the cards, set them aside together instead of trashing them and put the corresponding token on those cards.

Cards that operate differently based on your deck size or how many of X you have at any given moment are boons.

Those don't require a computer to track though.

It's not that hard to think of effects.

You could have effects on decks.
Like the attack Delayer: "Name a card. Each such card in opponents' decks that has a card with another name under it is swapped with that other card." (So it takes longer times for opponents to get the card you mentioned.)

You could have cards with mandatory negative reactions. Like a good action card but with the drawback that if someone plays an Attack / gains a Duchy / plays that very card / or something else... you have to discard it (or gain a Ruins, or ...)
Or other cards with forced actions that don't have to have a different backside because of it. Like an Action card that you have to play at the first opportunity.

You could have the game disclose some information that isn't normally available. Like an enhanced Mystic where you get to know the cost of your top card before trying to name it. Or a Spy that only tells you the cost of the spied cards. (Is that $8 card a Province or a Peddler?)

Or just actions that do different things depending on circumstances that don't have to be disclosed to opponents. (Something similar to Hunting Party or Menagerie without disclosing your hand.) It could be something that isn't disclosed to you either. Something Tribute-like that does things depending on the top card of opponent's deck without showing it. Maybe you don't even get to know what it did. You get a copy of the lowest card costing $3 to $6 in your left opponent's deck put at the bottom of your own deck. It could take a while until you see what it was. (This should be a new copy made, not taken from a pile.)

Cards that change other cards. The Silverizer that converts your topmost Copper in your deck (if there are any) into a Silver. Or the Enabler that changes all your Foos into Bars.

Etc. etc.

The conditions on Delayer are difficult enough that I don't think there's a way to do it IRL without being totally unreasonable, as opposed to just being somewhat unreasonable. :P

Mandatory negatives is good.

The partial knowledge thing like enhanced Mystic or nerfed Spy could sort of be done IRL if other players can be trusted to disclose that information honestly, but this is my favourite concept for this so far.

The undisclosed info stuff works well.

Silverizer can be implemented IRL.  Play Silverizer, get a Silverizer token.  Whenever you draw or reveal a Copper, you must return a Silverizer token if you have one to swap it for a Silver.  This is not entirely enforceable, but trying to get around it means hiding a Copper in your hand instead of playing it that turn, lest your deception be revealed.

Enabler can be done similarly.  However, this general idea can work if you make changes that aren't just card replacements, e.g. a Teacher that teaches a specific copy of a card.

How about a pile with infinite depth? It never runs out. Maybe the abilities and/or cost change as more cards are gained.

I proposed piles like that here but was thinking of a necessarily finite pile: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15195.0
Surely you could make something that could scale arbitrarily high.

Infinite depth alone isn't enough -- note that treasure piles were originally meant to be infinite, but were made finite because reality.  So the IRL implementation would just give the pile ~40 copies and just deal with those rare times when the pile runs out.

But having copies of the card slowly change and scale infinitely as you go deeper into the pile, that works well.

Or, how about a card/event that gave a stash-like ability to another card - it could change its back color or something.

Have a bunch of attachable "tokens".  To Stash-ify a card, attach a token to it.  You'd need a good token design, of course.  An actual clip would work, but it risks damaging the cards.  Maybe a coloured card sleeve.

Easily Agitated Witch

$5 Action
+2 Cards
Each time your opponent moves his cursor over this card, he gains a Curse.

Indeed!



Edit: forgot to address the Dread Gazebo from the OP, but it's another one where you just need labelled cards and corresponding counters.  It's obnoxious to handle IRL, but not impossible.  Granted, Dread Gazebo does get a boost in that the actual choices you make on-play are extra annoying to track as X gets higher.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 01:08:35 am by eHalcyon »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 12:59:05 am »
+2

Here's my idea:

Quote
Watchmaker
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For the next 5 seconds, when you play an Action card, +1 Action.

Could possibly be implemented with 10 small hourglasses or other timers, but it would be stupidly fiddly to set up and hard to track, especially if you stack multiples.
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trivialknot

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 02:25:51 am »
+2

How about a BoM variant?

Jazz Band of Misfits - $6 Action
Play this as if it were an Action card in the Supply costing less than it that you choose.  This is that card.  Forever.

Honestly I have trouble thinking of an online only effect that is actually worth doing.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 09:57:55 am »
+7

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain a random card.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 11:40:09 am by LostPhoenix »
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2016, 10:26:14 am »
0

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2016, 10:43:00 am »
0

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.

I originally thought the card gained could be anything, including prizes in non-Tournament games, basic cards, cards you do not own, colonies, and platinum. Perhaps the card should be the equivalent of shuffling the randomizer deck and gaining the top card.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2016, 10:53:01 am »
+1

The Even if it is not in the supply part makes this card open to a large number of different interpretations. Does that just mean you might get a Prize in a Tournament game? Or could you get a Prize in a non-Tournament game too? Can you get a card that you don't even own?

I think the same thing without the "not in the supply" part could actually work, though it would be extremely swingy.

I think a lot of people would expect that card to give you any Kingdom card regardless of whether or not it is being used in the game and whether or not you own it.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2016, 11:27:32 am »
+6

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)


I like it, it enables all sort of powerful combos like Queen of Hearts - NATO - Vomitorium - Sheep.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 11:28:33 am by Accatitippi »
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Kirian

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 12:06:04 pm »
+2

Unstable Portal
$3 - Action
Gain random card.
(Even if it is not in the supply)


I like it, it enables all sort of powerful combos like Queen of Hearts - NATO - Vomitorium - Sheep.

Maybe but then you have to get all four of those from Unstable Portals, talk about extreme luck.

Oh, and hope you don't draw New Earth, or power plant 21, or an Epidemic, because then your combo is screwed.
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Kirian

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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 12:08:14 pm »
+1

Somewhere there is a game to be made out of combining these cards and figuring out how they work together.  That game is probably a very long Nomic.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2016, 12:41:32 pm »
+1

To get a random card, just make something like a Black Market deck. Shuffle it, put it face down, and gain the top card.

The first fan card I ever made (but haven't posted here - just with my IRL group) was a card that let you gain a random card from a pile like that that was half good cards and half junk. We played lots of games with it, including variations with a second pile of even better cards (including Tournament prizes) and a small number of made-up really really nasty cards, but the only way to get a card from that pile was to get a Golden Ticket from the first pile. It was lots of fun, but obviously super swingy, so most people here wouldn't like it.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2016, 01:07:59 pm »
+3

Gemini
$7 - Event
Once per shuffle: Name a non-Victory Action card.  During your next shuffle, your deck has twice as many copies of that card.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2016, 02:13:55 pm »
+7

I feel some of the best parts about playing online are that during big enginey turns, it (1) remembers decisions you made (e.g. Pawn), (2) keeps track of crazy stuff (Procession-Procession-Bandit Camp-...), and (3) enforces weird rules (or at least tries to), so that you don't have to keep track of such things as carefully as you would IRL.  As such, would an online-only promo utilize decisions, crazy stuff, and weird rules (more so than typical cards, at least)?
No, it would have to be something that could not be done in the physical version - not just something that would suck in the physical version due to memory issues etc.

My previous example was a card that modified itself each time you played it... and then I made that in the physical version.

But uh let's not try to figure this out here dude, there's a forum for homemade cards.

Dread Gazebo
$2 - Action

Choose X:  +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, +1 Buy.  Your choices may be the same or different.
Nah.  All you have to do is name each one differently, and have a mat with Pirate Ship tokens for each one.  The game would be a moderate deal more tedious than a game without it, but still manageable by hand.

On the other hand I've got a card idea that I'm pretty sure in a multiplayer game with enough engine pieces, no one would dare use unless they were playing online, check it out.

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.
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Re: Online-Only Cards: can they happen?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2016, 02:37:12 pm »
0

Dark Sensei
$4 - Action - Attack
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice. Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action. Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.


We'll never see anything like this in a physical set, thank God.

That's literally Scrying Pool.
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