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Author Topic: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)  (Read 7430 times)

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Multitallented

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Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« on: May 03, 2016, 07:32:14 pm »
+6

I got such good feedback on my first card, that you guys inspired me to make a set.  ;D This is a set that aims to be a standalone expansion. It does not use any tokens, or rely on any cards from other expansions. I tried to encompass all the essential aspects of Dominion, and I'll be adding cards later. The theme is adversity and the unfair nature of life. Whenever I makes something it tends to be depressing, so I apologize in advance  ;D

I'd love your feedback! I hope you enjoy these (hopefully) unique cards: http://imgur.com/a/SDDX6
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 07:37:10 pm »
+1

Looks good! The image for your first card is already used by me and is on an old card of aspers BTW.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 09:40:00 pm »
+1

Closing Sale: Seems a bit weak. It's comparable to bridge, but the 4-5 jump might be a bit much. An extra buy could do this guy good.
Crows: Might be a bit weak, maybe increase it to 1 VP if the pile is empty. It's comparable to great hall, but thats a bad card and a cheaper one at that.
Den of Theives:  Needs clarification. Does this happen each turn when it's on your tavern mat? It's comparable to miser if you do the ability at the start of each of your turns.
Detain: Seems a bit OP. It might wotk as a peddler+ at 5.
Dying Village: Seems good, but a bit weak thematically. I was expecting a $2 village variant.
Illusion/Paramensia: Might work better as an option variant with a curser. As of now their useless on most boards.
Inquisition: Seems good, any problems I find with it I also find with masq so I wouldn't worry about it.
Night Patrol: Useless of most boards, it needs a duration or reserve. Change up the attack a bit.
Pavillion: I'd test it at +2 cards as well.
Safe House: Thematically,  how is this a treasure? The reaction seems a bit niche though, I'd mess around with it.
Sanction: Mention from where in your deck. Seems OP for 3, as it's almost council room. This version might work at 5, 3 is too cheap IMO.
Vacate: The bottom needs a bit clearing up. 4 should be better, this version might be better than caravan even at 4.
Plauge Doctor: You can drop the text in ( ) if you want to, but that's more of a preference.
Exotic Traders: Interesting. Might work, needs actual testing.
Travellers: I'd just suggest trying something simpler first, travellers are really hard to balance.
All these look amazing! Looking forward to seeing more of your cards!
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Multitallented

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 02:07:13 am »
+1

Closing Sale: I subtracted a coin and added a buy. Should make the card more fun in general.
Crows: Done
Den of Thieves: I personally think it's worse than Miser. I clarified it. Needs testing.
Detain: ??? I removed a coin the cost, but I don't know what you're saying.
Dying Village: I'll add more cards later. Probably another village variant.
Illusion/Paramnesia: They're just options like Colony/Platinum.
Night Patrol: I made it into a duration card, which made it more interesting. It makes the attack more predictable, which is good. As it was I thought the attack was too powerful/useless before.
Pavillion: The jump from 5 to 6 is a lot, so you're probably right.
Safe House: As an unreliable village, this is hard to combo. Still, I've tested games where this has saved my engine. Besides, as a fan card, I kind of like that it fills a niche.
Sanction: I was basing this off of Envoy. Sure Councilroom draws 4 and this draws 5. The difference here is that 4 of those are the worst cards in your discard pile.
Vacate: As a terminal card, this is based on Moat. Do you really think the delayed +1 Card is that valuable?
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 06:04:31 am »
0

I'll have a proper look later, but it seems to me Inquisition might be pretty weak.  A lot of the time you're letting people trash a card of their choice for free, or worse, letting them junk you.  At the very least the gaining should be optional.  It seems to me you should also be discarding the cards that you don't gain, not trashing them.
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 11:11:35 am »
0

If I gained one and discarded the others, then it would affect one player differently than the others. It would introduce diplomacy to the game, which isn't a good idea imo. You are right though. It seems a bit weak. I gave it the option of trashing a card from your hand (so that it's putting junk in your hand). I also reduced the hand cap to 4 so you could potentially play it twice in the same turn. That might be a bit strong, but we'll see. Thanks for the feedback, btw!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 11:29:59 am »
+3

It would be great if you could post the cards directly in your post, in text form. It's great to see the images as well, but giving feedback is easier if we can just see the cards listed out in text here.
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 11:54:24 am »
+1

Dying Village - I have no idea about balance, but I think it's a really great and unique idea for a card; especially a Village; one that gets worse each time you play it. I guess technically Margrave and Crossroads to this to an extend, but not as much.

Illusion and Paramnesia - Also a very cool idea to change the way other Cursers work. But I think it would be better if they didn't have the Curse type themselves... "Curse" is very unique in that is is both a name and a type of a card. But since it IS the name of a card, giving another card the type "Curse" is a bit like giving a card the type "Village".

Sanction sounds super strong. In the type of deck that's good for Envoy or Advisor, this is practically like +5 cards, +1 buy... for $3.

Plague Doctor - Oh hey, so it's this card. The only part I don't like is the "(this counts as playing an attack)". Even without that, you can still react to the reaction with another Plague Doctor, or with Watchtower, or Trader... this really only affects a few cards like Moat, Horse Traders, Secret Chamber, Beggar, and Lighthouse. Maybe I'm forgetting a couple... but it just seems like an unnecessary difference between this and buying and IGG or Noble Brigand, just for the sake of making it work with a few other cards. Alternatively, you could use the Young Witch idea, and allow players to reveal a reaction from their hand to avoid the junk. This would stop Lighthouse from working while making Fool's Gold and Tunnel work.

Paladin doesn't need "immediately". I have no idea how strong it is, it seems like it could get really crazy and hard to track.

Draining all the Crows sounds super good. Ironworks-Crows might be insane.

Closing Sale has some confusing wording... it sounds like it cares how many total cards you end up having bought, but that number isn't known until your turn is over. Is it intended to reduce costs by 1 each time you buy a card? Or the other thing?

Detain is sort of like a weird version of Cellar. Could lead to some AP problems. Neat idea.

Night Patrol is weird... most of the time, the attack won't do anything at all. Even if your opponent has played a Duration, you know that making him discard that Duration won't stop the next-turn effect from happening, right? Of course it applies to Gear and Haven, but that's about it.

Vacate... a Lighthouse that only works against some attacks basically. I guess it's intuitive that a set-aside hand can't be discarded from. But then to be consistent, you can't draw a card either. Or can you? You can still access your draw pile. But does the card go into your set-aside hand, or into your empty hand? I think all of that confusion would be removed if you said "set aside the cards in your hand" instead of "set aside your hand".

InQuisition is basically a super-Masquerade. Masquerade is a really good card; not sure we need a super version of it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 12:07:07 pm »
0

After reading other comments... I think I was wrong about Crows and InQuisition. Crows is just a slightly better Great Hall at best, and InQuisition will give your opponents a free trash for a while before it really has the potential to hurt them instead.
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Multitallented

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 12:20:15 pm »
0

I was thinking that when Night Patrol discards a duration card that it would end all effects for it. Sure, maybe Night Patrol doesn't explicitly say that, but on the text in the rulebook it could explain that. I suppose I could add some text to Night Patrol, but I'm not sure what it would be. I'm not sure if I should add that text either.

I've changed the wording on Vacate and Paladin.

I've removed the +1 Card and +1 Buy from Sanction. Definitely needs more testing.

For Closing Sale, I reworded it to be less confusing. It's supposed to be that when you buy a card, it reduces the cost of all other cards by 1 for the rest of the turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 01:08:55 pm »
0

I was thinking that when Night Patrol discards a duration card that it would end all effects for it. Sure, maybe Night Patrol doesn't explicitly say that, but on the text in the rulebook it could explain that. I suppose I could add some text to Night Patrol, but I'm not sure what it would be. I'm not sure if I should add that text either.


I'm not sure what text you could use for something like that. The current Dominion rules are explicit in that a Duration doesn't need to be in play for its effect to happen; you can currently Procession or Bonfire a Duration card and you'll still get the effect. When you first play the Duration card, it sets up everything that will happen. There's no existing terminology to address that list of effects that will happen; I guess you could go with something like "each other player loses any 'at the start of your turn' effects that are waiting".

But man that's ugly. And it's such a limited attack; it does nothing at all in games without Durations, which is the vast majority of all games. Of course it is itself a Duration, but then all they would do is cancel each other out. I just don't know if you're getting much benefit out of that design space. Also keep in mind that this relatively weak effect becomes quite strong against Hireling, Champion, and Teacher.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 02:01:38 pm »
0

Still thinking about Night Patrol. I think you might be able to do an attack that's a little more general, without breaking Champion or Duration rules in general; just focusing on "at the start of your turn" events. Something like:

+1 Card
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, +
________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, "at the start of your turn" effects do not happen on your opponent's turns.


This should cancel out effects like Prince and Summon, as well as making it so that they can't call most reserves, and cancels out Duration effects. But only until your next turn. Though this could still be a "pin" of sorts; if you play one of these every turn, then your opponents basically lose their Prince or their Hireling or their Reserve cards forever.
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navical

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 02:35:33 pm »
+1

These are great :) A few possible improvements:

Closing Sale wording: I would suggest "While this is in play, when you buy a card, cards cost $1 less for the rest of the turn, but not less than $0." plus a rules clarification that the card you bought doesn't get reduced in cost in time for you to pay less for it.

Closing Sale balance: 4 Closing Sales let you buy 8 Provinces. (Buy a Copper first to reduce the prices once). It needs playtesting, but my inclination is that it makes the megaturn a little too easy.

Dying Village: love the design, somewhat agree with ThetaSigma about the name - if you do want to change it, how about Boom Town?

Crows is great. I think. You can't get it as early as Great Halls, but it can be worth more if you time it exactly right. Get it wrong, and suddenly you have a bunch of Estates... You could make it slightly easier to parse if the second line said "Gain a Crows. If you do, +1 Action", it's a slight buff but not much.

Night Patrol (the current image version, not the discussion above that's posted while I was writing this post) - I haven't liked any similar cards in the past (even once we get past the issues with cancelling the effects of duration cards, which is a wording nightmare), because it just seems such an unfun thing to do (you finally managed to play your Teacher? sucks to be you, no tokens until the next shuffle. you discarded your hand to Tactician for a double turn next turn? sorry, just a normal turn.) This mitigates that somewhat by being next turn, so they know the attack will hit before they play the Duration or Reserve. I'm still not convinced, though.
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Multitallented

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 04:33:50 pm »
+1


+1 Card
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, +
________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, "at the start of your turn" effects do not happen on your opponent's turns.


This should cancel out effects like Prince and Summon, as well as making it so that they can't call most reserves, and cancels out Duration effects. But only until your next turn. Though this could still be a "pin" of sorts; if you play one of these every turn, then your opponents basically lose their Prince or their Hireling or their Reserve cards forever.

I love this idea. I'm not terribly worried about a pin here. It could be quite interesting.

I'll also try reworking Closing Sale to be more clear and less powerful.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 04:37:24 pm »
0

That card should definitely be an attack and should definitely be not as strong.

Perhaps: 'while this is in play, you may choose one 'at the start of your turn' effects of your opponent that they may not use.' Or something.
A bit like contraband: just cancelling one thing, rather than everything
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2016, 05:26:13 pm »
0

That card should definitely be an attack and should definitely be not as strong.

Perhaps: 'while this is in play, you may choose one 'at the start of your turn' effects of your opponent that they may not use.' Or something.
A bit like contraband: just cancelling one thing, rather than everything

To Borrow from both Contraband and Phyrexian Revoker's wordings (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383343)...

Name a card. "At the start of turn" effects of that card have no effect until your next turn.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2016, 04:48:48 am »
0

The Great Hall and alternative Curser are interesting.

Exotic Traders is a great 5$ gainer. Never saw a fan card that actually tried to do one and unlike Altar this enables you to get 5s relatively early in the game. It could be moderately swingy as the card is strong if you draw it immediately after shuffling and weak if you draw it shortly before shuffling but I doubt that it is an actual issue.

Dying Village is also interesting and looks strong on the first glance but not Lost City level overpowered (some folks might argue with this claim but IMO Lost City is crazily overpowered unless the game is a rush). The first one is an autobuy in virtually all Kingdoms but in Kingdoms without other Villages and in Kingdoms with lots of drawing going on this is unlikely to be too strong.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2016, 11:21:41 am »
+1

Just printed out this set!
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2016, 03:19:06 pm »
+1

I've added a new card, Ingratitude! I wanted one more trashing card in the set, but something that could spiral out of control. Aside from Chapel, Amulet, Remake, Doctor, and Steward there really aren't that many cards that trash cards quickly.

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 01:37:13 pm »
0

Just took a quick look, and your traveller line seems insane. Specifically paladin. Play paladin1. Reveal paladin2. Reveal x. Play x with paladin2, then play x and paladin1.(again). Paladin1 now reveals y. Paladin 1 plays y, then plays paladin2, x, and y. Paladin2 reveals z. You see where this is going. Congrats, you have infinite plays of literally every traveller you have in your deck.
Edit: nevermind. Paladin isn't a traveller. My bad.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 01:39:21 pm by Doom_Shark »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 02:28:28 pm »
0

Ingratitude is a bit confusing, and probably needs wording tweeks.

"At the start of your turn" isn't specific enough. "Normal" durations use "at the start of your next turn", while special ones like Hireling and Archive specify which turns they apply to. I assume you mean it to mean "at the start of each of your turns until you have no more cards set aside", but I don't know the right phrasing for that.

Also, it refers to cards set aside in general, though I'm guessing you mean for it to only refer to cards that were set aside with Ingratitude. But as worded, it would be affected by setting aside cards with Haven, Archive, etc.

So if I understand your intent correctly, wording aside, the card would play like this...

Now (turn 1): Play Ingratitude, set aside 3 cards.
Start of turn 2: Choose one of the 3 to put in your hand, trash the other 2, set aside 2 new cards.
Start of turn 3: Choose one of the 2 to put in your hand, trash the other one, set aside 1 new card.
Start of turn 4: Take the 1 card into hand; you're done, discard Ingratitude during cleanup.

I don't know a good wording that does all that without excessive complexity. The card seems very risky though; if you use it to trash 3 Junk cards, you'll also be forced to trash 3 more cards even if you have no Junk to choose for it.
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2016, 10:10:43 pm »
0

Very risky was exactly what I was going for. I wanted something along the lines of a risky Chapel, but wouldn't be useless later. I agree that the wording could be better. I like that you could understand the meaning though.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2016, 02:37:13 pm »
0

Okay, scorched earth is really weird.

I thought of something interesting for night patrol, what if it just said "Other players skip the start of their turn."
It's funky, put it would prevent Durations, Reserves, Prince, Horse Traders, and possibly other things.
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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2016, 02:44:00 pm »
+1

Haha! I like that wording. Thanks

Btw, I added Scorched Earth. I hadn't made a post about it earlier.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 03:50:52 pm by Multitallented »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Adversity (Beta)
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2016, 02:46:15 pm »
0

I was just looking throught the album downloading your travellers, and I'm like, What? Where did this come from? It was weird. Anywats, I like the card other than it being too good as a opener, especially with summon. Donate at least encourages you to build your deck. Maybe without the +Buy, or more specific trashing?
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