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[McGarnacle]

Just wondering which of these people thought was the best combo with stables, and which was the best with FG.

Margave/Fool's Gold

Ill Gotten Gains/Stables

Treasure Trove/Stables

Journeyman/Fool's Gold

[werothegreat]

None of these are combos.  Particularly not IGG/FG or TT/FG.  The last thing FG wants is other Treasures.

[McGarnacle]

None of these are combos.  Particularly not IGG/FG or TT/FG.  The last thing FG wants is other Treasures.

Just realized that the TT one was supposed to be with Stables, same as IGG, not FG. So what exactly is a combo?

[Awaclus]

Fool's Gold/X is big money and big money with Fool's Gold isn't particularly special in any way, just play it like you would play any other big money game.

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

[werothegreat]

The only real combo I can think of with FG is Mint/FG, which is spectacular.

[McGarnacle]

Stables/TT gives you a lot of treasure to discard, and gives a treasure density of $2/per card.

Margrave/FG is quite fast, and gives you an extra buy.

[faust]

The only real combo I can think of with FG is Mint/FG, which is spectacular.

Also Storeroom, which isn't quite as good, but still very decent.

[McGarnacle]

What do you mean

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

How many randomized kingdoms really have a good strategy. I've tried all of these (except for Journeyman/FG) and they are actually pretty good.

[werothegreat]

A combo is something you can win the game with.  Treasure Trove/Stables is just... an engine?  Sort of?

[Awaclus]

What do you mean

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

How many randomized kingdoms really have a good strategy. I've tried all of these (except for Journeyman/FG) and they are actually pretty good.

Almost all of them. Margrave/FG big money is a fine strategy, but Stables/IGG and Stables/Treasure Trove aren't strategies.

Stables/TT gives you a lot of treasure to discard, and gives a treasure density of $2/per card.

Getting a lot of Treasures so that your Stables has Treasures to discard is like buying a lot of Curses so that your Chapel has Curses to trash. The entire purpose of Stables is to skip past the Treasure cards that sometimes you can't avoid having in an engine. You don't want to defeat the purpose by buying more Treasures.

[McGarnacle]

What do you mean

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

How many randomized kingdoms really have a good strategy. I've tried all of these (except for Journeyman/FG) and they are actually pretty good.

Almost all of them. Margrave/FG big money is a fine strategy, but Stables/IGG and Stables/Treasure Trove aren't strategies.

Stables/TT gives you a lot of treasure to discard, and gives a treasure density of $2/per card.

Getting a lot of Treasures so that your Stables has Treasures to discard is like buying a lot of Curses so that your Chapel has Curses to trash. The entire purpose of Stables is to skip past the Treasure cards that sometimes you can't avoid having in an engine. You don't want to defeat the purpose by buying more Treasures.

If you discard a treasure, stables give you +3 cards, +1 action, which is way better than Lab. If you always have, say a copper to discard, it provides a pretty huge benefit. With TT, you discard coppers to draw golds.

[Awaclus]

If you discard a treasure, stables give you +3 cards, +1 action, which is way better than Lab. If you always have, say a copper to discard, it provides a pretty huge benefit. With TT, you discard coppers to draw golds.

Let's look at a practical example.

Scenario 1: At the end of your turn, before you draw your hand of 5 cards, the following cards are in your draw pile: 3 Estates, 1 Copper, 1 Stables and 3 Golds. You draw 3 Estates, 1 Copper, 1 Stables. On your turn, you can play the Stables and discard the Copper to draw 3 Golds. As a result, your hand is 3 Golds and 3 Estates and you have 1 extra Copper in your discard pile.

Scenario 2: At the end of your turn, before you draw your hand of 5 cards, the following cards are in your draw pile: 3 Estates, 1 Lab and 3 Golds. You draw 3 Estates, 1 Lab, 1 Gold. On your turn, you can play the Lab to draw 2 Golds. As a result, your hand is 3 Golds and 3 Estates.

Scenario 1 is not way better than Scenario 2. In fact, it is way worse than Scenario 2. The only thing that changes is that you have an extra Copper in the discard pile, which sucks if you actually had useful cards instead of your Golds and Estates and were hoping to draw your entire deck that turn.


Stables is an engine card. Treasure cards hurt engines. Therefore, Stables strongly anti-synergizes with Treasure cards.

[DG]

Wharf + fool's gold.

[McGarnacle]

Wharf + fool's gold.

Yeah, that is better than all of the others. Wharf is just so amazing.

[luser]

Wharf + fool's gold.

Yeah, that is better than all of the others. Wharf is just so amazing.

That with mint/fg are examples of 5/2 wins (and margrave/fg to some extend). While in mint case its because its hard to get 5 copper hand later and mint fg in wharf case its that you could often build better engine with wharf and 3-4 fg, as after fg/fg opening you have around 50/50 change of getting wharf on turns 3/4.

Also you missed council room/fg thats strongest fg strategy. That bm will win you lot of games, one of few bms where you regularly double-province.

[scott_pilgrim]

What do you mean

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

How many randomized kingdoms really have a good strategy. I've tried all of these (except for Journeyman/FG) and they are actually pretty good.

Almost all of them. Margrave/FG big money is a fine strategy, but Stables/IGG and Stables/Treasure Trove aren't strategies.

Stables/TT gives you a lot of treasure to discard, and gives a treasure density of $2/per card.

Getting a lot of Treasures so that your Stables has Treasures to discard is like buying a lot of Curses so that your Chapel has Curses to trash. The entire purpose of Stables is to skip past the Treasure cards that sometimes you can't avoid having in an engine. You don't want to defeat the purpose by buying more Treasures.

If you discard a treasure, stables give you +3 cards, +1 action, which is way better than Lab. If you always have, say a copper to discard, it provides a pretty huge benefit. With TT, you discard coppers to draw golds.

But unless you've overtrashed (by which I mean, designed a deck that Stables doesn't really fit into), you should always have something to discard to Stables anyway.  If you have so few treasures that you actually need to be getting yourself more treasures in order to play Stables, you probably did something wrong earlier, or else you shouldn't be playing Stables anyway.

Stables+IGG would only be a thing if you didn't have 7 coppers in your deck, but you start with 7 coppers in your deck, so in order for it to work, you'd have to trash a bunch of coppers, then decide you actually want copper again.  Even then it's probably bad, but it's also nonsense to call something a combo if it requires misplaying something else.

[E.Honda]

What do you mean

The two things with Stables aren't things, you should try your best to forget about them.

How many randomized kingdoms really have a good strategy. I've tried all of these (except for Journeyman/FG) and they are actually pretty good.

Almost all of them. Margrave/FG big money is a fine strategy, but Stables/IGG and Stables/Treasure Trove aren't strategies.

Stables/TT gives you a lot of treasure to discard, and gives a treasure density of $2/per card.

Getting a lot of Treasures so that your Stables has Treasures to discard is like buying a lot of Curses so that your Chapel has Curses to trash. The entire purpose of Stables is to skip past the Treasure cards that sometimes you can't avoid having in an engine. You don't want to defeat the purpose by buying more Treasures.

If you discard a treasure, stables give you +3 cards, +1 action, which is way better than Lab. If you always have, say a copper to discard, it provides a pretty huge benefit. With TT, you discard coppers to draw golds.

But unless you've overtrashed (by which I mean, designed a deck that Stables doesn't really fit into), you should always have something to discard to Stables anyway.  If you have so few treasures that you actually need to be getting yourself more treasures in order to play Stables, you probably did something wrong earlier, or else you shouldn't be playing Stables anyway.

Stables+IGG would only be a thing if you didn't have 7 coppers in your deck, but you start with 7 coppers in your deck, so in order for it to work, you'd have to trash a bunch of coppers, then decide you actually want copper again.  Even then it's probably bad, but it's also nonsense to call something a combo if it requires misplaying something else.

Another problem is that stables and igg both cost $5

[theJester]

Stables is an engine card. Treasure cards hurt engines. Therefore, Stables strongly anti-synergizes with Treasure cards.

While I agree with the rest of your post, the above simply can't be true. Stables absolutely requires Treasure cards to do anything - without them it's just one giant Confusion. In fact, while playing Stables-based engine deck, it's often hardest task to find a right balance of how many treasures should you trash - trash too little and you'll clog up your engine; trash too much and you'll render your Stables useless. But saying Stables anti-synergizes with  Treasures is like saying Throne Room anti-synergizes with Actions.

EDIT: and to answer original post - FG is great with anything that gives +buy and/or +cards. So, stuff like Wharf+FG, Margrave+FG and Council Room+FG are pretty strong BM strategies.

[Awaclus]

Stables is an engine card. Treasure cards hurt engines. Therefore, Stables strongly anti-synergizes with Treasure cards.

While I agree with the rest of your post, the above simply can't be true. Stables absolutely requires Treasure cards to do anything - without them it's just one giant Confusion. In fact, while playing Stables-based engine deck, it's often hardest task to find a right balance of how many treasures should you trash - trash too little and you'll clog up your engine; trash too much and you'll render your Stables useless. But saying Stables anti-synergizes with  Treasures is like saying Throne Room anti-synergizes with Actions.

Just like Chapel is one giant Confusion if you don't have anything to trash.

The purpose of Stables is not to be an engine component that your engine is based on. It's more comparable to Warehouse — when you don't have trashing, it helps you mitigate that, and when you do have trashing, it helps you draw your trashing more often in the early game. Except it's obviously a lot stronger than Warehouse since you don't have to discard as many cards. If you find yourself not trashing Treasures that you don't want to have in your deck just because you need to keep some Treasures around for your Stables, then you shouldn't have gotten Stables in the first place. Saying Stables anti-synergizes with Treasures is like saying Throne Room anti-synergizes with Treasures; both are very true statements, because you don't want Treasures in the deck type where you want to buy Stables and Throne Rooms.

[Witherweaver]

Fool's Gold combos pretty well with itself.

[JThorne]

I'm going to have to agree with most of the experts here. None of those are combos, and in fact, many anti-synergize.

Margrave/Fool's Gold -- Margrave is a bomb, but I'd be somewhat wary of using it on a Fool's Gold board depending on what else is in the Kingdom. Allowing your opponent to draw a card before going down to 3 is dangerous. If you're playing a Margrave engine and allowing them to do that multiple times it's even worse; you're significantly improving their chances of lining up THEIR Fool's Golds in the same hand!

Ill Gotten Gains/Stables; Treasure Trove/Stables -- Add me to the chorus. Stables does NOT want more treasure! The point of Stables is that you need to do LESS trashing. It's certainly not that you want to do no trashing, and definitely not that you want to add treasure. Stables starts to shine when you can play multiples per turn. If you load up on treasure, you will definitely not be able to string Stables together. If you're just playing one and discarding a copper or IGG, then, well...you're playing Moat/BM. Seriously. Ick.

I'd like to add one small story about trashing and engines. I had an IRL game recently that included Embassy, Chapel, Bridge, Port. I thought to myself: If I'm going to build a double-Province Port/Embassy/single-Bridge engine, can I get a jump on my opponents by skipping trashing and buying components faster, using Embassy's incredible sifting power and the lightning acquisition speed of cheap, plentiful ports with Bridge buys. One play of Embassy skips the Estates. Another play skips half your copper. Who needs trashing? Yeah, well, turns out, even THAT needs even some trashing; it's all about reliability. The player who trashed everything won on single Province buys (and free silvers, of course) before I could get doubles going. So no, don't ever, EVER clog up your deck with extra coppers unless you're playing some sort of slog or Gardens rush.

I recently played with some young beginners who tried to tell me how great a Beggar/Moneylender combo was. The fact that I had to actually work to convince them otherwise was truly astounding.

Journeyman/Fool's Gold -- And what are you going to name? Copper? Here's your handful of Estates. Oh, you're trashing those? In that case, trash the coppers as well and see what else is in the Kingdom before you buy $5 Smithies. Journeyman is terminal and doesn't have +buy, which means that Fool's Gold doesn't really like it.

The Fool's Gold strategy article on the Wiki is actually pretty good. It could probably use some updating, but that's the best place to start when you're looking for strategy advice and combos. Posting a poll here if you haven't done your homework is just asking for a pile-on.

[wachsmuth]

Margrave/Fool's Gold is a pretty strong Big Money deck. Journeyman/Fool's Gold is alright. The rest are dubious at best.

[DG]

This whole stables debate seems to be at the wrong level. It doesn't matter what sort of deck it is in as long as you are happy to play a stables, discard a treasure, and draw 3 more cards (i.e. what the card says). You can put stables together with crossroads and victory cards if that's what's important. You clearly want stables to be in hand with treasures and you want the drawn cards to be more useful than the discarded copper, but that's about it.

Stables and treasure trove will probably work fine as stables will draw big hands of treasure cards (that works), discard poor treasures to draw bigger treasures (that works too), and cycle the deck quickly to play key cards more often. It probably won't be any better than catacombs/journeyman with treasure trove.