Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[majiponi]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

From old topic.

Silly exception: if, due to Nomad Camp or Develop or whatever, the gained card was going to your deck anyway, you could reveal Watchtower to redundantly top-deck it and then reveal the same Watchtower to trash it. I guess.

Is it correct?

[Seprix]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Summon just tells you to to gain a card costing up to $4, and then set it aside. It shouldn't really matter whether it's topdecked or not.

From old topic.

Silly exception: if, due to Nomad Camp or Develop or whatever, the gained card was going to your deck anyway, you could reveal Watchtower to redundantly top-deck it and then reveal the same Watchtower to trash it. I guess.

Is it correct?

I'm going to say no. The card is already heading towards the top of your deck anyways, you are not gaining it twice. Watchtower isn't going to affect Nomad Camp twice.

[Donald X.]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Who wants to know?

Oh man. You are asking me, what happens if you completely pointlessly reveal Watchtower. What happens then? Man have you tried, like, not doing that? Some people go their whole lives without pointlessly revealing Watchtower.

I understand that some people like to poke at the rules, but man you are poking at nothing here. No-one will ever profit in any way from this information.

The lose track rule says something like, "Things lose track of a card if something moves it, if it's the top card of a deck and gets covered up, or if it's the top card of a discard pile and gets covered up."

Revealing Watchtower to not actually move a card does not actually move it. A card only moves if it moves. hth

From old topic.

Silly exception: if, due to Nomad Camp or Develop or whatever, the gained card was going to your deck anyway, you could reveal Watchtower to redundantly top-deck it and then reveal the same Watchtower to trash it. I guess.

Is it correct?

Well not technically, no. You could reveal Watchtower to fail to do anything, then reveal the same Watchtower to trash it.

[majiponi]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Who wants to know?

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

Thanks for your advice.

[Seprix]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Who wants to know?

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

Thanks for your advice.

You do know you can choose which effect would be able to go first, right?

[Accatitippi]

This interaction is extremely useful in the edge-case scenario where you're losing a face-to-face game.

It's a terrific occasion to play your Jerk card and interrupt the game in favor of an endless and pointless rule debate.

[ConMan]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Who wants to know?

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

Thanks for your advice.

You do know you can choose which effect would be able to go first, right?

I think the idea is "and you want it to wind up in your hand so you can Transmogrify it".

[LastFootnote]

From official FAQ.

If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp, Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).

Do I set aside Nomad Camp if I reveal Watchtower to topdeck Nomad Camp?
I mean, Summon lost track? Watchtower moved Nomad Camp?
I think it is true because I actually followed an instruction of Watchtower, which topdecks Nomad Camp.

Who wants to know?

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

Thanks for your advice.

You do know you can choose which effect would be able to go first, right?

BZZZZZT!!!!! Wrong! Nomad Camp's ability is not order-able. It's unfortunately worded like an on-gain ability, but really Nomad Camp just has a different default gain destination.

By Donald's ruling above, top-decking the already top-decked Nomad Camp with Watchtower does not cause Summon to lose track of the Nomad Camp. So it gets set aside.

[Seprix]

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

You do know you can choose which effect would be able to go first, right?

BZZZZZT!!!!! Wrong! Nomad Camp's ability is not order-able. It's unfortunately worded like an on-gain ability, but really Nomad Camp just has a different default gain destination.

By Donald's ruling above, top-decking the already top-decked Nomad Camp with Watchtower does not cause Summon to lose track of the Nomad Camp. So it gets set aside.

I was talking about playing the Nomad Camp with Summon first versus playing Transmogrify...

[LastFootnote]

I think this matters when you are in Mission turn and cannot buy Nomad Camp directly and you'd like to avoid playing it at the start of your next turn (for example, Transmogrify is on your tavern mat).

You do know you can choose which effect would be able to go first, right?

BZZZZZT!!!!! Wrong! Nomad Camp's ability is not order-able. It's unfortunately worded like an on-gain ability, but really Nomad Camp just has a different default gain destination.

By Donald's ruling above, top-decking the already top-decked Nomad Camp with Watchtower does not cause Summon to lose track of the Nomad Camp. So it gets set aside.

I was talking about playing the Nomad Camp with Summon first versus playing Transmogrify...

Why would that matter? You can't Transmogrify a card that's set aside, only one in your hand.

[Seprix]

You can only Transmogrify at the start of your turn, right? So playing an action card would ruin the Transmogrify play for that turn.

[LastFootnote]

You can only Transmogrify at the start of your turn, right? So playing an action card would ruin the Transmogrify play for that turn.

Using up an Action to play an Action card from your hand, sure. Not playing the summoned card, though.

[math]

You can only Transmogrify at the start of your turn, right? So playing an action card would ruin the Transmogrify play for that turn.

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you're just wrong.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that if I have a Nomad Camp set aside with Summon and a Transmogrify on the mat, playing the Nomad Camp will prevent me from calling the Transmogrify.  If this is what you mean, then it isn't correct; both effects trigger at the start of my turn, so I can choose the order, and neither prevents the other from happening.  Playing the Nomad Camp doesn't start my Action phase, any more than playing a card set aside with Prince starts the Action phase.  If I have a Nomad Camp and a Smithy set aside with two Princes,  I can play them both, even though both trigger at the start of my turn.  The same goes for Transmogrify and other Reserve cards.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Seprix]

You can only Transmogrify at the start of your turn, right? So playing an action card would ruin the Transmogrify play for that turn.

you're just wrong.

Okay, okay, okay, quit Dominion Knowledge Shaming me.

#DominionKnowledgeShaming

[werothegreat]

Okay, I've been thinking about this a bit lately.  So the current ruling is that Summon first gains, then sets aside a card.  This means it loses track of Death Cart, because the when-gain on Death Cart of gaining Ruins means that Death Cart gets covered up before it gets set aside.

However, this would, at first glance, seem to be not consistent with the No Visiting rule.  When an effect gains a card to somewhere other than the discard, it doesn't first visit the discard.  So if I Armory a Death Cart, the Death Cart goes immediately to the top of my deck, and the Ruins are dumped in my discard pile, and no track was lost.

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Sorry if this seems rambling, and if I'm right it means nothing has changed in terms of rulings, but I wanted to check to see if my logic seems sound.

[Donald X.]

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Yes, it's the period.

[GendoIkari]

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Yes, it's the period.

This was probably asked and answered at some point before, but is there a reason that Summon doesn't say "gain a card, setting it aside" instead?

[AJD]

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Yes, it's the period.

Mine has a semicolon. ("Gain a Treasure card costing up to $3 more; put it into your hand.") I take it semicolons are intended to be interpreted differently from periods for this purpose?

[LastFootnote]

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Yes, it's the period.

Mine has a semicolon. ("Gain a Treasure card costing up to $3 more; put it into your hand.") I take it semicolons are intended to be interpreted differently from periods for this purpose?

Yes. Summon would probably have a semicolon or comma instead of a period, but it needed to be clear that the "If you do" referred to setting it aside.

[werothegreat]

So why doesn't Summon operate this way?  I think it comes down to the fact that there is a period between "gain" and "set aside" on Summon.  On all the other no visiting cards, it's either a semicolon (like Bureaucrat or Mine) or a comma (like Armory or Explorer).  So it would say "... gain a blah card, putting it blah".  In contrast, Summon says "Gain a blah card.        Set it aside."  This to me indicates that No Visiting does not come into play here - the Summoned card is not gained to set-aside land, it is still gained to the discard pile, then moved after it is gained, which means it can be lost track of.

Yes, it's the period.

Mine has a semicolon. ("Gain a Treasure card costing up to $3 more; put it into your hand.") I take it semicolons are intended to be interpreted differently from periods for this purpose?

Yes. Summon would probably have a semicolon or comma instead of a period, but it needed to be clear that the "If you do" referred to setting it aside.

I mean, I guess you could have said "If you do set it aside..."