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Author Topic: Inheretance and the Trash  (Read 1160 times)

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clb

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Inheretance and the Trash
« on: April 26, 2016, 05:30:59 pm »
+3

There are two statements on the Wiki for Inheritance, each of which seems to make sense, but they seem to contradict each other. Could you please help me sort this out?

Quote
If you Transmute an Inherited Estate, the Estate is in the trash and, thus, no longer yours when Transmute checks its type; therefore you would only get a Gold (for trashing a Victory card) and not a Duchy (since Estate cannot be an Action card in the trash).

Quote
If an Estate comes into your possession via a means not explicitly described in the Official FAQ, such as being put in your hand after being trashed as a Fortress, it is still "yours", and still has its Inherited properties.

Why is an Inherited Estate still "mine" in the trash as a Fortress, but not "mine" if trashed by Transmute?
If I trash an Estate-inherited-to-Fortress using Tansmute, would it come back to my hand? If yes, why wouldn't it also give me a Duchy?
The Inherited Type and Inherited Abilities should both apply while it is mine, and it stops being mine when it goes to the trash. It seems that the Estate-as-Fortress should remain in the trash.

Thank you for your insights.
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Chris is me

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 05:39:22 pm »
+4

Why is an Inherited Estate still "mine" in the trash as a Fortress, but not "mine" if trashed by Transmute?

If I had to guess - it's because the effect is on-Trash, not once it arrives at the pile. "When you trash this, put it into your hand" - this doesn't check what card it is, and the card effect occurs at the instant it is trashed.

With Transmute, the card is trashed. Then the card trashed is checked, in a new sentence - what kind of card did you trash?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2016, 05:41:32 pm »
+5

When you trash Fortress, it's 'When you trash this' clause fires.  So, it must be returned to hand.  There are no self-tracking issues, you just do what it says.  That it is instantaneously not a Fortress does not really matter.

When you use Transmute, what do you do.  You play Transmute, select a card to trash and trash it.  Any reactions involving trash or would-trash fire.  Then you check its type.  The card has already been trashed now, so an Estate is an Estate.

I guess if you Transmute an Inherited Estate, then when you check its type it's already back in your hand, so its a Fortress and an Estate, so you would get a Gold and a Duchy.

PPE: Ninja'd~
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clb

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 05:46:12 pm »
0

Thanks to you both!
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dane-m

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 02:06:20 am »
+1

There are two statements on the Wiki for Inheritance, each of which seems to make sense, but they seem to contradict each other. Could you please help me sort this out?

Quote
If you Transmute an Inherited Estate, the Estate is in the trash and, thus, no longer yours when Transmute checks its type; therefore you would only get a Gold (for trashing a Victory card) and not a Duchy (since Estate cannot be an Action card in the trash).

I guess if you Transmute an Inherited Estate, then when you check its type it's already back in your hand, so its a Fortress and an Estate, so you would get a Gold and a Duchy.
Do you get anything at all?  If Transmute is responsible for checking the type of the card after it has been trashed, shouldn't it have lost track of the Estate-Fortress (it's not in the Trash where Transmute is expecting to find it) and hence not be able to trigger any of the "If it is..." options? 
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 02:33:46 am »
+4

There are two statements on the Wiki for Inheritance, each of which seems to make sense, but they seem to contradict each other. Could you please help me sort this out?

Quote
If you Transmute an Inherited Estate, the Estate is in the trash and, thus, no longer yours when Transmute checks its type; therefore you would only get a Gold (for trashing a Victory card) and not a Duchy (since Estate cannot be an Action card in the trash).

I guess if you Transmute an Inherited Estate, then when you check its type it's already back in your hand, so its a Fortress and an Estate, so you would get a Gold and a Duchy.
Do you get anything at all?  If Transmute is responsible for checking the type of the card after it has been trashed, shouldn't it have lost track of the Estate-Fortress (it's not in the Trash where Transmute is expecting to find it) and hence not be able to trigger any of the "If it is..." options?

No. The loose track rule only applies to moving a card. You can still check the card for types etc.
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dane-m

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Re: Inheretance and the Trash
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 05:02:25 am »
+1

No. The loose track rule only applies to moving a card. You can still check the card for types etc.
Thanks.  That's a wrinkle I'd forgotten.
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