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Author Topic: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event  (Read 8688 times)

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Ankenaut

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Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« on: April 26, 2016, 11:53:14 am »
+1

Fill in the blank (or link if this has already been done):

Pact
Event - Cost $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Gain a card from the Supply that the player to your left chooses. If you do, +$__

Update: Here's an image version of the version that I'll be printing and testing.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 08:20:13 pm by Ankenaut »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 12:00:19 pm »
0

It's usually a Curse, so maybe +$2?
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AJD

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2016, 12:05:34 pm »
+1

The +1 Buy shouldn't be inside the "if you do". As it is, your opponent can name Spoils, you gain nothing, and you've wasted your buy.
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AJD

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 12:06:13 pm »
0

The +1 Buy shouldn't be inside the "if you do". As it is, your opponent can name Spoils, you gain nothing, and you've wasted your buy.

(I think?)
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Seprix

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 12:11:07 pm »
0

The +1 Buy shouldn't be inside the "if you do". As it is, your opponent can name Spoils, you gain nothing, and you've wasted your buy.

(I think?)

No, you're right. The Buy shouldn't outside the 'if you do' for the Pact Event anyways, since you can potentially just spam it. I don't think this Event is really a good idea in it's current state anyways. You can just spam it, and if the Curses are out, you don't care about the Copper influx you get as a result as you can just get a free Province a turn.

Unless of course, Spoils is on the board. It does say 'gain a card that the other player chooses', so I think that would be technically legal. I'd change the wording to 'gain an Action card costing from "$4 to $5"' or something like that, and then maybe the opponent gets a small bonus as well for choosing that card, like +$1. It's still not very good, but it's less useless. And I'd ditch the bonus money you get as a result, as well as the +buy. That feels a lot more like a pact to me anyways.

An alternate fix is only being able to buy the Event once a turn.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 12:18:02 pm by Seprix »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 12:13:02 pm »
+1

With Watchtower it's a game ending combo
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 12:18:16 pm »
0

With Watchtower it's a game ending combo

OK, the "if you do" is an attempt to get you to not be able to react to it - so it's broken with Watchtower. I'm taking suggestions for fixing it and getting back to the right idea of the card - you take junk, you get benefit.

I added "Once per turn" so you don't spam it.

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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2016, 12:21:03 pm »
0

The +1 Buy shouldn't be inside the "if you do". As it is, your opponent can name Spoils, you gain nothing, and you've wasted your buy.

ok, "from the supply" clarification added. I thought it was implied, but I guess not.
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Seprix

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2016, 12:21:18 pm »
0

You're almost certainly taking a Curse or a Ruins, so +$2 is probably okay. I kind of like the being forced to take an Action card from a price range that your opponent chooses instead, just so it's not an automatic Curse or something like that.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 12:27:06 pm »
0

You're almost certainly taking a Curse or a Ruins, so +$2 is probably okay. I kind of like the being forced to take an Action card from a price range that your opponent chooses instead, just so it's not an automatic Curse or something like that.

I guess the idea was that you ought to take a curse or ruins or something. It's just worded like that so it's always possible for you to complete the instructions.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 02:46:04 pm »
0

I think as it is currently, it may as well say "Gain a Curse. If you did, + ". It's only in edge cases where it would be different.
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Awaclus

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 02:57:00 pm »
+2

Gaining a Curse would be a lot better. It's simpler, more flavorful, and usually does the exact same thing anyway.
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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 02:57:17 pm »
0

Did you consider something along the flavor of

'If you did, +N-X, where X is the cost of card you gained, to a minimum of +0'

possible, where N is some fixed value?  It's not particularly great if there are >=$N that junk your deck, but maybe something like this.
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luser

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 04:15:03 pm »
0

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win). Most variants that allow more than copper are forced mirror If there arent other +buy cards then both players must open with duchy and keep buying duchies with crappy decks as once player gets like 4vp lead he would probably have forced win. With +buy its bit more complicated but its again forced mirror as if one player doesnt open with buyer other player could double province on turn 3/4 and keep single provincing.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2016, 04:37:18 pm »
0

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win).

Actually it results in a turn 1 loss... you would gain 10 Curses and 8 Estates (or 20 Curses and 12 Estates); you would lose.
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Awaclus

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 04:39:35 pm »
0

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win).

Actually it results in a turn 1 loss... you would gain 10 Curses and 8 Estates (or 20 Curses and 12 Estates); you would lose.

You have 3 Estates in your starting deck a lot of the time.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 04:40:15 pm »
+5

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win).

Actually it results in a turn 1 loss... you would gain 10 Curses and 8 Estates (or 20 Curses and 12 Estates); you would lose.

You have 3 Estates in your starting deck a lot of the time.

A lot of the time, your opponent does too.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 04:41:55 pm »
+4

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win).

Actually it results in a turn 1 loss... you would gain 10 Curses and 8 Estates (or 20 Curses and 12 Estates); you would lose.

The event gives you money so you could then buy a Province.
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Awaclus

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 04:45:39 pm »
+1

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win (restricting gains to copper/curse/estate also leads to turn 1 win).

Actually it results in a turn 1 loss... you would gain 10 Curses and 8 Estates (or 20 Curses and 12 Estates); you would lose.

You have 3 Estates in your starting deck a lot of the time.

A lot of the time, your opponent does too.

Good point.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2016, 06:07:20 pm »
0

Did you consider something along the flavor of

'If you did, +N-X, where X is the cost of card you gained, to a minimum of +0'

possible, where N is some fixed value?  It's not particularly great if there are >=$N that junk your deck, but maybe something like this.

Yes, I did consider that and posted a variation of it as an Action card (where you got the card from your opponent's hand - like with Masquerade) in a response on another thread. I thought, why not something like that, but an event? This seemed simpler.

And, as others have suggested, sure, it could be simpler with restricting it to curses. Maybe that is better.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2016, 06:10:10 pm »
0

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win

I just realized that if you want people to comment on your fan cards, you have to first post a broken, but easily fixable version.  ;)
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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2016, 06:11:06 pm »
+4

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win

I just realized that if you want people to comment on your fan cards, you have to first post a broken, but easily fixable version.  ;)

This is Godwin's Law.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 06:42:05 pm »
+1

Correct, just realized that original version is ultimate first player advantage as first player will gain entire supply on turn 1 and win

I just realized that if you want people to comment on your fan cards, you have to first post a broken, but easily fixable version.  ;)

This is Godwin's Law.

I think this one is Cunningham's Law: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law

...wait, I see what you did there.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2016, 08:23:51 pm »
0

I posted an image of the version I'm printing based on this feedback. Thanks everyone.

It ended up not looking all that different from Borrow, but I wanted to play around with determining a "value" of taking on junk, so I suppose it isn't a bad one to play off of.
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Re: Pact with the Devil: Help me balance an event
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2016, 10:12:34 pm »
0

Is there any way to get around the Watchtower hijinks? Sure, it's only once per turn, but...

Does "Gain a Curse, putting it into your hand. If you do..." work? In other words, the "if you do" clause is contingent on you putting it in your hand, which you can't if you react using Watchtower first? How about "putting it on top of your deck"? (a nastier drawback).
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