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RevanFan

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #225 on: September 28, 2016, 07:28:38 am »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
I, for one, would love to have them available, but in a separate set. They shouldn't be a part of Base or Intrigue.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #226 on: September 28, 2016, 09:11:48 am »
+1

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #227 on: September 28, 2016, 09:20:43 am »
+5

Removing Coppersmith isn't about making high level competitive 1v1 Dominion more interesting; it's about making Dominion a better board game for 2-4 casual players. It's a huge trap card that tons of inexperienced players buy into and regret. The first two sets should especially avoid those.
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Accatitippi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #228 on: September 28, 2016, 09:45:09 am »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.

I'm not sure that's the kind of weak cards that got removed.
A hard to build engine is made of hard to fit toghether, nonoptimal elements.
The cards that got taken out were not suboptimal elements, they way too often would not be an element at all. (exception: Woodcutter, and maybe Coppersmith)
Scarcity of viable engine ingredients doesn't mean more interesting engines to build, it just means that you end up playing boring strategies like BM-terminal draw more often.

I might be more susceptible to this matter than most due to still playing a good deal of base-heavy games IRL.
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faust

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #229 on: September 28, 2016, 02:20:14 pm »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.
You can just include an option to only have 9 or 8 cards in the kingdom for this.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #230 on: September 28, 2016, 03:30:41 pm »
+6

irl, I removed all these cards over a year ago, plus a few others. Coppersmith, Scout and friends are not good cards to show beginners. They are just outright boring cards that suck. I used to teach just using Base Dominion cards but stopped because of how weak many of the base cards were. Now, with the new additions, I might start using Base Dominion to teach new people.

Anyway, I don't miss these cards irl. Online, I see these 12 cards pop up all the time, and honestly, I can't wait to never have to see them again.
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pst

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #231 on: September 29, 2016, 02:13:38 am »
+2

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

One reason to have them is so you can set up specific boards you have played IRL and try out different things on them afterwards. Surely some players who own the old sets will just continue to use them IRL.
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Jeebus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #232 on: September 29, 2016, 11:26:51 am »
+2

I would like to somehow have the option to include them in full random. I agree that they should not be part of the free base game package, or the Intrigue package. I don't know the new payment model. Are all expansions going to have a one-time cost? Maybe give some cost to these 12 cards to, like a mini-expansion.

The reason for removing these 12 cards was surely to make the two first sets better, especially for new players. (One aspect of this is that in the base game, 5 terminals and 1 non-terminal were replaced by 3 terminals and 4 non-terminals.) The reason for removing them was surely not to make playing random with all sets better. At best that had to have been an afterthought.

I would categorise them in four tiers:

D) The only cards that are almost useless and can be beneficially retired are Thief (is "fixed" in Noble Brigand and now Bandit too), Adventurer and Scout. (I have never once bought an Adventurer. Even when I was learning Dominion and knew almost nothing, I saw that Gold is always better.)

C) Cards that are almost as useless, but I don't think it hurts to keep them, are Chancellor , Spy and Secret Chamber. They have their uses a bit more often, but they could be retired too. At least Storeroom does Secret Chamber's trick.

B) Cards that perform a function that it would be a bit sad to lose, although they rarely matter, are Coppersmith and Saboteur. The thing is that no other card does what they do (including the new cards), and figuring out when to go for them is a cool possibiltiy to keep. As long as they are not in the first two sets that players buy, I don't see the problem.

A) The cards I'd hate to see go are Feast, Woodcutter, Great Hall and Tribute. Feast and Tribute are useful quite often, and also each do something no other cards do, especially Feast. Woodcutter being the only source of +buy has real impact on the game, since it's cheap but weak and terminal. That happens quite often. Great Hall has an impact on many games. Often you want cheap cantrips, and even more so if it gives VP, and quite often the types matter too. The sole fact that they don't clog your deck means that they are a pile that often gets emptied and that changes the game too. (Interestingly, Mill is priced as if using Great Hall as a baseline.) Ok, Tribute and Feast Great Hall have "fixed" versions, although Courtier can never be a Village (big difference), and Mill costs more (smaller difference but not insignificant). In the end Feast is the #1 card to keep for me.

EDIT: fixed wrong card name
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 12:03:10 pm by Jeebus »
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #233 on: September 29, 2016, 02:20:27 pm »
+2

The rules variants in the Campaigns on MF are really cool. Is there any chance for custom, unrated games, we would be able to fuck with the rules as well? It could be auto-playing a certain card each turn or an event at the game beginning. Other rule changes could be Kingdom / pile size, starting hand size, starting deck contents, etc.

By no means are these essential features but it would be fun to play with.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #234 on: September 29, 2016, 02:41:33 pm »
+12

For those that want the removed cards, I think everyone should play for a month on the new implementation and see if after one-month they actually miss those cards.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #235 on: September 29, 2016, 03:15:52 pm »
+4

And while I'm not opposed to having them available for people to fool around with, I'd prefer there was no way to include them in full random, pro games.
Having to endure Transmute Cultist and Harvest is bad enough, no need to not make use of a solution when one is available.

Incidentally, I loved great hall, but it really still lives on in the form of Mill, having received only the least significant of cost increases.
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RevanFan

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #236 on: September 29, 2016, 03:32:08 pm »
+2

I don't think they should be available in ranked games or in default full random situations, but they should be able to be turned on for casual games. Sort of like how you can turn shelters or platinum/colony to always on, even if it doesn't meet the rulebook specification. And there could be a feature that would only match you up in casual games with people who also allow the removed cards.
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arcee

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #237 on: October 10, 2016, 05:35:20 pm »
0

FR: A way to follow this ruling...

So to confirm, this also gives us another ruling, that "anywhere in your deck" includes "generally somewhere in the middle", and doesn't have to be an exact number of cards from the top that you decide on.
If what you're asking is, can you choose to not know where exactly you're putting the card, then yes.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #238 on: October 11, 2016, 10:27:18 am »
0

FR: A way to follow this ruling...

So to confirm, this also gives us another ruling, that "anywhere in your deck" includes "generally somewhere in the middle", and doesn't have to be an exact number of cards from the top that you decide on.
If what you're asking is, can you choose to not know where exactly you're putting the card, then yes.

There should totally be a Random Place button, but 95% of the time you want it either on top, on bottom, or out of reach for this turn but in your next hand. Once you get over the AP it's really quite powerful.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #239 on: October 12, 2016, 10:31:44 am »
0

I think the common places to put cards with Secret Passage will be 1, 2, 6, bottom, somewhere else specific. Seems like those options would be the most useful.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2016, 10:34:54 am »
0

1, 2, 6, bottom, somewhere else specific.

Isn't that, just, the deck?
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Mr Anderson

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2016, 11:08:30 am »
0

All jokes aside, those options (first, second, sixth, bottom) as buttons would be strongly appreciated.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #242 on: October 24, 2016, 04:15:33 pm »
0

Easily prepaying for large amounts of time is a feature I consider valuable.  I will likely spend more if that is made convenient.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #243 on: October 24, 2016, 04:56:43 pm »
+1

All jokes aside, those options (first, second, sixth, bottom) as buttons would be strongly appreciated.

Expanding on this, I think if you just had the existing interface but numbered the cards it would work pretty well. Counting sucks.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #244 on: October 24, 2016, 05:10:15 pm »
+2

Easily prepaying for large amounts of time is a feature I consider valuable.  I will likely spend more if that is made convenient.

As long as there's easy paying for large amounts of coin tokens, I'll be happy.
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2016, 11:28:01 am »
0

If I buy lots of fake currency, then use the fake currency to actually get subscription months, that's not easy anymore and is not what I was talking about.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2016, 03:29:43 pm »
+2

I was making a joke about Baker coin tokens. But not a joke -- that definitely needs to be a feature.
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faust

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #247 on: November 10, 2016, 05:32:37 am »
+18

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #248 on: November 10, 2016, 10:01:40 am »
+1

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #249 on: November 10, 2016, 11:04:44 am »
0

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
Well, sometimes someone has a tight advantage in such scenarios. Enforcing the tie wouldn't be fair then.
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