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phoenix9797

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"Features" threads
« on: April 26, 2016, 10:59:32 am »
+1

Hi all--

The "main thread" has gotten long and meandering, and it chiefly contains discussion of the pricing model (and recently music / graphical effects).  I thought it might be productive to have separate threads dedicated to hashing out specific features we'd like to see in Shuffle iT's new version of the game.  Ideally, we could have a "hub" thread that provides links to individually-dedicated threads, each of which could contain discussion specific to that feature (and how it might be best implemented).  For example, some features (and thus, threads) that I would like to see under discussion concerning the "pace of game" for the new version would include:

1.  Ability to see opponents' ranking, stats, etc., during the game.  I need something to do while waiting for my turn!
2.  Ability to force a resignation after a very short waiting period (< 30 seconds?) when an opponent has connection issues.
3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my opinion, it would be good to have threads individuated for the discussion of options like these (and, I'm sure, many others that we can come up with collectively).  I'm simply not sure whether it would be better for us to each start threads for the topics, or whether it would be best for SCSN / Stef to create "official" ones that they could format in the way that would be most useful for them regarding future reference / implementation as they work on Shuffle iT's version.

Thoughts? 
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 11:08:41 am »
+4

Quote
In my opinion, it would be good to have threads individuated for the discussion of options like these (and, I'm sure, many others that we can come up with collectively).  I'm simply not sure whether it would be better for us to each start threads for the topics, or whether it would be best for SCSN / Stef to create "official" ones that they could format in the way that would be most useful for them regarding future reference / implementation as they work on Shuffle iT's version.

I think SCSN has said they want to hold off announcing too many features because there's always a chance one doesn't get implemented on release. Remember when Goko promised Tournaments? MF promised Adventures?  Yeah...
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phoenix9797

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2016, 11:17:07 am »
0

Quote
In my opinion, it would be good to have threads individuated for the discussion of options like these (and, I'm sure, many others that we can come up with collectively).  I'm simply not sure whether it would be better for us to each start threads for the topics, or whether it would be best for SCSN / Stef to create "official" ones that they could format in the way that would be most useful for them regarding future reference / implementation as they work on Shuffle iT's version.

I think SCSN has said they want to hold off announcing too many features because there's always a chance one doesn't get implemented on release. Remember when Goko promised Tournaments? MF promised Adventures?  Yeah...

Ah--yes, I did not mean to imply that these would be endorsements or official "acceptances" for features in the new version; I just wanted to foster discussion (in an organized fashion) about features we'd like to see.  What I meant by the part you quoted was that there might be a specific means of discussion (separate threads, as I've suggested, or perhaps "clumped" threads, each of which contains all discussion about a general topic like social features (for example)) that Shuffle iT might prefer for ease of reference *in the event that* they decide to work on implementing a certain feature.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 11:22:10 am »
+1

# Blacklisting players - think something was mentioned about this
# All sets - and a better timeframe for being added if/when new expansions occur (e.g. Empires)
# Reliability - if player has small connection blip, don't kick them out. Took MF ages to get this right
# First player choosing - for tournaments (guess this will be covered by Tournament Mode)
# A better rating system, with less drop-off if you don't play consistently
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 01:42:48 pm »
+5

I prefer being able to blacklist abusive players rather than a timer. My biggest worry is that if people can arbitrarily set the matching criteria based on various speeds of playing the game, then this might lead to a system where no one gets matches up.

I'm not opposed to a timer, but it needs to be fair. Still, though, I think jerk players are the real problem and being able to flag them just sounds better to me.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 09:37:09 pm »
+11

I think there should be tons of sparkling animations, with no way of turning them off. The animations should also be incredibly slow, with no way of speeding them up, and a delay between each playing of a card. The music should not be able to be turned off, and the sound effects should be incredibly obnoxious, loud, and sound like stock sound effects. Lastly, Dominion: Empire should not be released until 2018 at the very least. I think these are all great "features".

With love,

Lord Bottington
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 03:31:18 am »
+10

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 04:53:55 am »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

This.

And, the need to think on some kingdoms will become more pronounced when Adventures comes out. A 12 card kingdom requires much more thinking than a 10 card kingdom.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 07:18:57 am »
+5

In my opinion, it would be good to have threads individuated for the discussion of options like these (and, I'm sure, many others that we can come up with collectively).  I'm simply not sure whether it would be better for us to each start threads for the topics, or whether it would be best for SCSN / Stef to create "official" ones that they could format in the way that would be most useful for them regarding future reference / implementation as they work on Shuffle iT's version.

Thoughts?

Feel free to discuss what you want where you want to, whether that be existing threads or new ones.

If you care about maximizing your impact, it's probably best to clearly state your general wishes and concerns and let us worry about addressing them (i.e. the implementation details).

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion.

It won't be, as stated elsewhere.

2. Ability to force a resignation after a very short waiting period (< 30 seconds?) when an opponent has connection issues.

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.
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GendoIkari

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 01:57:13 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 05:33:38 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 09:19:34 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

Goko actually killed my last computer from overheating
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 09:21:21 pm »
+1

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I have an i7 with 8 GB RAM and a mediocre graphics card, and it overheats my machine like crazy. I shouldn't need a top of the line system to run a card game. (Assuming you weren't joking)
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phoenix9797

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 11:03:25 pm »
+1

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 01:21:30 am »
+2

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I have an i7 with 8 GB RAM and a mediocre graphics card, and it overheats my machine like crazy. I shouldn't need a top of the line system to run a card game. (Assuming you weren't joking)

I was joking.
As somebody who spent 3 years of my life trying to cooperate with a legacy pc as my only machine (15 y.o.), I'm annoyed by the notion of having high hardware requirements just because "there is technology that could handle this".

So yeah, irony.

I'm sorry for your computer, Beyond Awesome. :/
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2016, 02:53:15 am »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
Your turn:
Play Cartographer (+5 seconds), draw card, look at top 4 cards, decide which to discard, rearrange the rest (takes 8 seconds)
Play Scrying Pool (+5 seconds), decide on opponent's card, decide on own card, draw a shitload of cards (takes 5 seconds)
Net: -3 seconds

My turn:
Play Village (+5 seconds), draw card (takes 1 second)
Play Smithy (+5 seconds), draw 3 cards (takes 1 second)
Net: +8 seconds
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2016, 03:14:48 am »
+2

The most important thing for me would be a good pairing system.

Ideally, you'd like to find an equally skilled opponent within a couple of seconds.
Manually setting all kinds of parameters (like "my rating +/- 500", "these sets, but not these", etc. isn't really helpful.


It would be really cool if we could spectate matches between high level players, maybe seeing all of their cards (although this might be prone to abuse; perhaps players could opt-out of showing their hand cards).
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2016, 03:23:32 am »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
Your turn:
Play Cartographer (+5 seconds), draw card, look at top 4 cards, decide which to discard, rearrange the rest (takes 8 seconds)
Play Scrying Pool (+5 seconds), decide on opponent's card, decide on own card, draw a shitload of cards (takes 5 seconds)
Net: -3 seconds

My turn:
Play Village (+5 seconds), draw card (takes 1 second)
Play Smithy (+5 seconds), draw 3 cards (takes 1 second)
Net: +8 seconds
Although it's not common in chess, I think delays would work a lot better than increments in Dominion. With a delay, the clock freezes for a short amount of time after a move but extra time is never added to your total. With a ~3 second delay after every decision, the clock won't count down while you are making simple decisions but will when you are making more complicated ones. The Cartographer/Scrying Pool player loses very little time drawing their deck because they are making so many decisions that the clock is frozen for most of their turn and the Village/Smithy player doesn't gain any time by making a simple engine because unused time isn't added back to their clock. They each end up having close to the same amount of time to make the big decisions like what to buy. Some strategies will obviously still require a lot more thinking time to play, but with a sufficiently long time control (15 minute time bank per player + X minutes increment added per turn + Y seconds delay per "decision") I don't think it would make any decks unplayable.

In any case, it doesn't sound like this is something that many people want. It would definitely need to be optional and that might end up splitting the player pool and increasing the wait to find a game. Maybe it's something worth experimenting with a bit down the line if there are a lot of players.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 03:50:28 am by Arctic Penguin »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2016, 04:56:46 am »
+2

The most important thing for me would be a good pairing system.

Ideally, you'd like to find an equally skilled opponent within a couple of seconds.
Manually setting all kinds of parameters (like "my rating +/- 500", "these sets, but not these", etc. isn't really helpful.


It would be really cool if we could spectate matches between high level players, maybe seeing all of their cards (although this might be prone to abuse; perhaps players could opt-out of showing their hand cards).

I also think spectating matches would be a really nice feature. A small delay in the stream would probably remove most potential for abuse.
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phoenix9797

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2016, 08:48:41 am »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
Your turn:
Play Cartographer (+5 seconds), draw card, look at top 4 cards, decide which to discard, rearrange the rest (takes 8 seconds)
Play Scrying Pool (+5 seconds), decide on opponent's card, decide on own card, draw a shitload of cards (takes 5 seconds)
Net: -3 seconds

My turn:
Play Village (+5 seconds), draw card (takes 1 second)
Play Smithy (+5 seconds), draw 3 cards (takes 1 second)
Net: +8 seconds

This is remedied by having *every decision acted upon* trigger the increment, as I've been trying to suggest.  (I think I've not been as clear as I should have been.)  When you make the decision on the 4 cards for Cartographer, that is 4 triggers of the increment.  Scrying Pool triggers it 3 times: when you play the card, when you decide about your top card, and when you decide about your opponents' top card.

The idea here is NOT to make time / speed a way to win a game.  The idea is to ensure that when I start playing a game, I will ACTUALLY be playing a game, not sitting there after each of my turns until my opponent decides to return from surfing the web while I'm playing my turn.  Since each person chooses his or her own base time + increment, and chooses an acceptable threshold for his/her opponent's base time and threshold, the result would be a game that flows according to a pace both players are happy with.  If it's not flowing at that pace, the player causing the delay will end up losing once time runs out, which is exactly the point.  If you've caused the game to drag on longer than the amount of dead time agreed to by your opponent, then that is the very reason the timer is in place, so your opponent should be credited with a victory and both can go their separate ways, either to finish whatever random task you were trying to accomplish while playing Dominion, or to play a game with an opponent who will remain attentive and active during the game.

This would be a setting ("Timer" or something) just like the current setting regarding the point counter: you could set it to "Always," you could set it to "Prefer to use it," you could set it to "Prefer not to use it," and you could set it to "Never."  If you choose any of the first 3 settings, you'd need to specify your base time and increment, as well as the acceptable level for your opponents' base time and increment.

Thus, for those saying that it would slow down your ability to get an automatch, you would just set it to one of the "Prefer..." settings, which would match you as you prefer (if available), or against whichever opponent is ready to play if your preference is not available.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2016, 10:18:54 am »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014. Making Fun sucks up like 99% of the processing power. It's incredible how poorly the app was made.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2016, 10:24:54 am »
+2

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014.

It's a Mac though.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2016, 10:29:38 am »
0

It's a Mac though.

Shouldn't make any sort of difference, you PC Elitist.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2016, 10:31:42 am »
+4

It's a Mac though.

Shouldn't make any sort of difference, you PC Elitist.

Macs are bad, and you should feel bad.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2016, 10:46:15 am »
+2

It's a Mac though.

Shouldn't make any sort of difference, you PC Elitist.

Macs are bad, and you should feel bad.

Macs aren't bad. Give me a break. People hate Macs because it's cool to hate on them. It's just different. I hate the Windows interface, but I'm not pretending it's inferior. I'm not even opposed to building a 'Hackintosh', and I'll probably do that one day. It's cheaper and more powerful, and it has the interface I like.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 10:47:18 am by Seprix »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2016, 10:58:52 am »
+12

Linux sucks. You all suck. I use my modded Wii for everything, and you can't stop me. Sure it's bad at playing Dominion, but I would have lost all those games anyway.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2016, 11:02:38 am »
+3

requesting feature to let Dominion be played on a modded Wii
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2016, 01:13:33 pm »
+1

Macs aren't bad. Give me a break. People hate Macs because it's cool to hate on them. It's just different. I hate the Windows interface, but I'm not pretending it's inferior.

I've used a Mac at home and a PC at work for the past ~5 years, and while I love a lot of things about OSX, the Windows GUI is vastly superior to that of OSX. It's not even close in my book.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2016, 04:16:11 pm »
0

I've used a Mac at home and a PC at work for the past ~5 years, and while I love a lot of things about OSX, the Windows GUI is vastly superior to that of OSX. It's not even close in my book.

Which is funny because the Windows user interface is specifically designed to rely heavily on keyboard commands (where Windows is, naturally, also clearly superior).
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2016, 04:19:25 pm »
+1

I've used a Mac at home and a PC at work for the past ~5 years, and while I love a lot of things about OSX, the Windows GUI is vastly superior to that of OSX. It's not even close in my book.

Which is funny because the Windows user interface is specifically designed to rely heavily on keyboard commands (where Windows is, naturally, also clearly superior).

It is? How so? OS X has tons of keyboard shortcuts.

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2016, 04:23:10 pm »
+2

Linux sucks. You all suck. I use my modded Wii for everything, and you can't stop me. Sure it's bad at playing Dominion, but I would have lost all those games anyway.

Sent from my Super Nintendo
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2016, 04:30:51 pm »
0

It is? How so? OS X has tons of keyboard shortcuts.

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.

For instance, Windows lets you map programs into Windows key+number key keyboard shortcuts. And then that shortcut starts that program up, or makes it active/inactive if it's already open. AFAIK, OS X requires you to use the graphical user interface if you want to launch a program.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2016, 04:32:14 pm »
+8

I play Dominion Online on my Beowulf cluster of TI-83s with a Furby array for audio.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2016, 04:41:37 pm »
0

It is? How so? OS X has tons of keyboard shortcuts.

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.

For instance, Windows lets you map programs into Windows key+number key keyboard shortcuts. And then that shortcut starts that program up, or makes it active/inactive if it's already open. AFAIK, OS X requires you to use the graphical user interface if you want to launch a program.

Oh no, I have to scroll my mouse all the way to the right/left/down/wherever and click on the icon. So horrible!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2016, 05:09:33 pm »
+1

It is? How so? OS X has tons of keyboard shortcuts.

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.

For instance, Windows lets you map programs into Windows key+number key keyboard shortcuts. And then that shortcut starts that program up, or makes it active/inactive if it's already open. AFAIK, OS X requires you to use the graphical user interface if you want to launch a program.

Oh no, I have to scroll my mouse all the way to the right/left/down/wherever and click on the icon. So horrible!

That does sound horrible! I use Alfred so I can hit Option+Space and then start typing in the name of what I want to open. I don't even keep anything in my dock any more.

AFAIK the recent OS X updates have sped up the built-in Spotlight so that command+space does the same thing quickly enough, but I got used to Alfred before that happened so I stuck with it instead of switching to Spotlight.

And I concede that technically this is still using a graphical interface, but it's also a keyboard map to open any application at all :)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2016, 06:01:53 pm »
0

It is? How so? OS X has tons of keyboard shortcuts.

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.

For instance, Windows lets you map programs into Windows key+number key keyboard shortcuts. And then that shortcut starts that program up, or makes it active/inactive if it's already open. AFAIK, OS X requires you to use the graphical user interface if you want to launch a program.

Oh no, I have to scroll my mouse all the way to the right/left/down/wherever and click on the icon. So horrible!

Dear diary, today I learned that scrolling your mouse and clicking on an icon is a keyboard command, not using a graphical user interface.

And yeah, it is kind of horrible. Your mouse is supposed to be doing mouse things while you can do stuff like opening programs with your left hand at the same time.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2016, 06:12:11 pm »
+4

For instance, Windows lets you map programs into Windows key+number key keyboard shortcuts. And then that shortcut starts that program up, or makes it active/inactive if it's already open. AFAIK, OS X requires you to use the graphical user interface if you want to launch a program.

Luckily this is no longer the case. I can press command-space to open the global search bar, then press 'D', then press 'Enter', since the Dominion client is the top hit for 'D'.

You can also create global app-launching keyboard shortcuts, though I think it's a lot more work to set it up than it would be in Windows.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2016, 06:55:26 pm »
+8

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.
Dude, I just google for a word that has an n with a tilde, and paste it into whatever I'm working on.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2016, 07:14:51 pm »
0

One counterexample to your claim that I always run into is how much more difficult it is to type the most common special characters on Windows. I have to memorize a special 4-digit code for each one. On Mac, option-command-hyphen is an em-dash, option-8 is a bullet point, etc.
Dude, I just google for a word that has an n with a tilde, and paste it into whatever I'm working on.

I still do that for e.g. the multiplication sign.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2016, 08:16:26 pm »
+7

For the multiplication sign you just type $\times$.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2016, 10:09:18 pm »
+3

I don't get how this thread became people hating on OS X, but ok. I use OS X primarily and Windows secondarily, and the app launching is nearly identical on both (cmd-space then type name in OS X; windows button then type name in Windows).

One significant objective advantage of the OS X GUI for me is that because the copy-paste shortcuts use cmd instead of ctrl, they don't interfere with the use of ctrl in Unix-originating apps like a Bash terminal and gVim. So on OS X I can use the normal cmd-c/cmd-v to copy-paste between gVim and other programs, while on Windows I have to use "+y/"+p, which is kinda nasty. (I think it's possible to change them to ctrl-c/ctrl-v, but then you'd lose the use of ctrl-v for block selection, which is super handy.)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2016, 02:35:56 am »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
Your turn:
Play Cartographer (+5 seconds), draw card, look at top 4 cards, decide which to discard, rearrange the rest (takes 8 seconds)
Play Scrying Pool (+5 seconds), decide on opponent's card, decide on own card, draw a shitload of cards (takes 5 seconds)
Net: -3 seconds

My turn:
Play Village (+5 seconds), draw card (takes 1 second)
Play Smithy (+5 seconds), draw 3 cards (takes 1 second)
Net: +8 seconds

This is remedied by having *every decision acted upon* trigger the increment, as I've been trying to suggest.  (I think I've not been as clear as I should have been.)  When you make the decision on the 4 cards for Cartographer, that is 4 triggers of the increment.  Scrying Pool triggers it 3 times: when you play the card, when you decide about your top card, and when you decide about your opponents' top card.
Ok, that could work. But you'd have to define what exactly a decision is. Each single card you can discard with Cartographer, or the discarding as a whole? Each card you put back on top individually or the putting back in total?
The answers to most of those questions are probably trivial (of course you don't count each card you trash with Chapel individually), but it has to be done.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2016, 05:25:01 am »
+1

For the multiplication sign you just type $\times$.

I type C-x 8 x because I use Emacs and am therefore superior to you all.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2016, 03:25:23 pm »
0

3.  Ability to select "timed game" as an option.  One way to implement a "timed game" would be to enable the players to set a base time (i.e, 5 minutes, whatever), and an increment (i.e., 2 seconds).  Each player starts with the base time, and during his or her turn, it ticks down, while being increased by the increment with every action taken.  So the opponents' base time is the "dead time" I'm willing to invest in the game, since the increments offset the time spent by the opponent actually playing and taking action.  Players could even set separate (personal) base times and increments (perhaps as a profile setting), and the matching feature could enable the ability to accept only opponents meeting a chosen threshold for base time / increment.  In this way, players could be operating with different starting "base and increment" times, while all players are satisfied with the timing setting.

In my oppinion a timer should not be a standard feature for Dominion. It can be something like a special add-on, but the way Dominion is designed doesn't really fit a timer.
I think a lot of you are a bit influenced by chess, where timers work great since every move (not the thinking about it, but the move itself) takes almost the exact same amount of time. In Dominion, however, the difference between resolving Smithy and Scrying Pool can be huge. This means (and you've seen this with the Blitz feature in the MMF mod) that a timer greatly influences the strength of certain cards and the viability of certain strategies, which is not really the point of a timer.

Well, the idea is that *every* action you take during your turn would trigger the increment.  So every time you play Scrying Pool on your turn, you trigger the increment.  Every time you play Smithy, you trigger the increment.  This way, it does not matter which cards are in the kingdom; it just matters that play proceeds with reasonable flow, even if entire turns vary drastically in terms of their actual length.  Both a quick Smithy turn and a lengthy Scrying Pool turn would result in (approximately) the same time remaining in the bank, if the player plays both turns with the same pace.
Your turn:
Play Cartographer (+5 seconds), draw card, look at top 4 cards, decide which to discard, rearrange the rest (takes 8 seconds)
Play Scrying Pool (+5 seconds), decide on opponent's card, decide on own card, draw a shitload of cards (takes 5 seconds)
Net: -3 seconds

My turn:
Play Village (+5 seconds), draw card (takes 1 second)
Play Smithy (+5 seconds), draw 3 cards (takes 1 second)
Net: +8 seconds

This is remedied by having *every decision acted upon* trigger the increment, as I've been trying to suggest.  (I think I've not been as clear as I should have been.)  When you make the decision on the 4 cards for Cartographer, that is 4 triggers of the increment.  Scrying Pool triggers it 3 times: when you play the card, when you decide about your top card, and when you decide about your opponents' top card.
Ok, that could work. But you'd have to define what exactly a decision is. Each single card you can discard with Cartographer, or the discarding as a whole? Each card you put back on top individually or the putting back in total?
The answers to most of those questions are probably trivial (of course you don't count each card you trash with Chapel individually), but it has to be done.

Generally, I'd say "individually" for basically all of the possibilities you would ask me.  The reason, again, is that I'm not trying to make timing a way to win a game; I'm just trying to make sure that the game proceeds, and all the possibilities you'd ask me would be possibilities where the game is proceeding.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2016, 01:11:50 pm »
0

For the multiplication sign you just type $\times$.

I type C-x 8 x because I use Emacs and am therefore superior to you all.
My input method for Emacs allows me to type \x. I win :)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2016, 02:45:25 pm »
+7

Back to topic:
My most wanted feature is the big red cross across a card to be trashed by Jack or discarded by Hamlet (as suggested by Donald) - or an undo option for situations like this.
I admit there are really horrible things in the MF UI, e.g. the Scheme interface, but these haven't affected me as often as stupid misclicks trashing/discarding my next action to be played.
The online version does certainly have many advantages over IRL play, but it should also avoid to add pitfalls which could never happen IRL.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2016, 02:49:14 pm »
0

Back to topic:
My most wanted feature is the big red cross across a card to be trashed by Jack or discarded by Hamlet (as suggested by Donald) - or an undo option for situations like this.
I admit there are really horrible things in the MF UI, e.g. the Scheme interface, but these haven't affected me as often as stupid misclicks trashing/discarding my next action to be played.
The online version does certainly have many advantages over IRL play, but it should also avoid to add pitfalls which could never happen IRL.

I find that the red burning border works well enough that I never trash by mistake, but the yellow discard one has tricked me a good few times, in particular when using Vault or Hamlet.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2016, 02:56:22 pm »
+2

Maybe I'm not sufficiently receptive for colors. I would like to have "trash"/"discard" look really different from "play", i.e. not only a differently colored border.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2016, 03:36:21 pm »
+3

I think that -- like on Isotropic -- trashing should be a different *interface*, not just a different appearance of the same interface you use for playing cards.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2016, 03:47:04 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014. Making Fun sucks up like 99% of the processing power. It's incredible how poorly the app was made.

Um... 2014 is only two years ago.  My computer is from late 2011, and runs MF just fine.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2016, 03:48:10 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014. Making Fun sucks up like 99% of the processing power. It's incredible how poorly the app was made.

Um... 2014 is only two years ago.  My computer is from late 2011, and runs MF just fine.

Is your computer a Mac though?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2016, 03:56:25 pm »
0

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014. Making Fun sucks up like 99% of the processing power. It's incredible how poorly the app was made.

Um... 2014 is only two years ago.  My computer is from late 2011, and runs MF just fine.

Is your computer a Mac though?

No, it's a Windows machine.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2016, 04:08:21 pm »
+2

Thirty seconds is extremely harsh. There should be enough time to return to your game after a computer crash.

If your opponent doesn't have an SSD, that's his fault.

Yeah, on the same note, I don't understand the people complaining about overheating when running Making Fun.

Get a new computer, guys.

I use a computer from 2014. Making Fun sucks up like 99% of the processing power. It's incredible how poorly the app was made.

Um... 2014 is only two years ago.  My computer is from late 2011, and runs MF just fine.

Is your computer a Mac though?

No, it's a Windows machine.

Well, then I see the pattern here!
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2016, 04:11:02 pm »
+1

I think it's more that MF doesn't write good efficient code for the Mac version. Maybe Unity doesn't run as well on Macs. If someone could write good code for a Mac version but can't for Windows, it would be the same thing but the other way around.
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LastFootnote

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2016, 10:03:30 pm »
0

Is your computer a Mac though?

No, it's a Windows machine.

Well, then I see the pattern here!

My 2013 Mac laptop runs the current version of MF Dominion with no issues at all. Previous versions caused it to heat up a lot, but I believe they've optimized the code.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2016, 09:39:15 am »
+6

I think it's more that MF doesn't write good efficient code for the Mac version.
FTFY

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2016, 04:18:08 pm »
+7

An interface for custom-designed AI would be cool
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2016, 10:37:06 am »
+11

Some things I'd like to see that haven't been mentioned here and I don't remember from the other thread:

- some way to easily access data from all the logs, so that we can have some councilroom-style site.
- "replay" mode for logs, where you can choose a log and get an automated replay of the game for you to watch.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2016, 12:48:36 pm »
+5

- "replay" mode for logs, where you can choose a log and get an automated replay of the game for you to watch.

+1 this! Reading logs even with the log prettyfier feels so prehistoric
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2016, 01:47:44 pm »
+2

a couple of remote possibilities:

  • an option to define the nature of your resignation. I often have to end a game to tend to a waking child or something of that sort. If I could mark them as 1)resigned in lieu of loss or conceded, 2) resigned for unrelated reasons and 3) maybe another option, then at the least I could filter them when I search my own game logs. Or, possibly I could see different ratings for different types of games. Obviously, from an official standpoint, they would all count the same, but at least I could see the distinction.
  • somewhat relatedly, maybe there could be an option for aliases. So all my games are rated under Main Name, but I can choose to play under Alias 1 or Alias 2, and they would be rated independently. (Possibly I use one when I'm seriously playing and another when casual). Or maybe just rated and unrated does the trick here
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2016, 03:47:39 pm »
+8

a couple of remote possibilities:

  • an option to define the nature of your resignation. I often have to end a game to tend to a waking child or something of that sort. If I could mark them as 1)resigned in lieu of loss or conceded, 2) resigned for unrelated reasons and 3) maybe another option, then at the least I could filter them when I search my own game logs. Or, possibly I could see different ratings for different types of games. Obviously, from an official standpoint, they would all count the same, but at least I could see the distinction.
  • somewhat relatedly, maybe there could be an option for aliases. So all my games are rated under Main Name, but I can choose to play under Alias 1 or Alias 2, and they would be rated independently. (Possibly I use one when I'm seriously playing and another when casual). Or maybe just rated and unrated does the trick here

I really need a "playing dominion while intoxicated" alias tbh
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E.Honda

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2016, 06:28:20 pm »
0

a couple of remote possibilities:

  • an option to define the nature of your resignation. I often have to end a game to tend to a waking child or something of that sort. If I could mark them as 1)resigned in lieu of loss or conceded, 2) resigned for unrelated reasons and 3) maybe another option, then at the least I could filter them when I search my own game logs. Or, possibly I could see different ratings for different types of games. Obviously, from an official standpoint, they would all count the same, but at least I could see the distinction.
  • somewhat relatedly, maybe there could be an option for aliases. So all my games are rated under Main Name, but I can choose to play under Alias 1 or Alias 2, and they would be rated independently. (Possibly I use one when I'm seriously playing and another when casual). Or maybe just rated and unrated does the trick here

I really need a "playing dominion while intoxicated" alias tbh

There already are My Drunk Account and My Tired Account
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2016, 10:37:27 am »
0

With regard to game logs:

Are you going to have an official game log searching interface and all that jazz, or will you be delegating that bit to the community (like previous implementations)? I assume that the click-to-resume-from-point-in-time game logs means there'd be a way to recover them, but will you also be providing a full suite of gokosalvager-esque capabilities?
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scotty2hotty

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2016, 09:44:21 pm »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
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yed

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2016, 05:50:23 am »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
No animations please!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2016, 06:26:19 am »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
No animations please!
Strongly disagree.
Lots of animations, and especially sparkles- they're the best! Making Fun doesn't have enough animation, and that's the main thing putting me off their product.
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Hugovj

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2016, 09:25:06 am »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
No animations please!
Strongly disagree.
Lots of animations, and especially sparkles- they're the best! Making Fun doesn't have enough animation, and that's the main thing putting me off their product.

Also, dancing unicorns. And rainbows :D

Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2016, 09:39:52 am »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
No animations please!

I concur. I want avatars, but I don't think I want GIFs.
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werothegreat

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2016, 10:01:50 am »
+1

Avatars should just be card art.
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yed

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2016, 10:30:52 am »
0

In-game animated GIF avatars
No animations please!
Strongly disagree.
Lots of animations, and especially sparkles- they're the best! Making Fun doesn't have enough animation, and that's the main thing putting me off their product.
I meant no animations in user avatars.
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2016, 10:45:08 am »
0

Avatars should just be card art.

Nah. I think it should be whatever people want, within reasonable limits (like no pornography or whatever). It's classy when WW has his classic Death Star avatar, or when I had my Mario avatar back in the day (I wouldn't use it now, I'd probably use Card Art), but you get my point.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2016, 10:58:19 am »
0

Avatars should just be card art.

Nah. I think it should be whatever people want, within reasonable limits (like no pornography or whatever). It's classy when WW has his classic Death Star avatar, or when I had my Mario avatar back in the day (I wouldn't use it now, I'd probably use Card Art), but you get my point.

Yeah, I would really want my Dismemberment Plan album cover art instead of just something that's already in the game. Everyone else does card art already, and it's not bad, but custom avatars are nice. If for whatever reason there can't be custom avatars, then yeah we should use card art instead of the shitty MF / Goko people
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Awaclus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2016, 11:06:05 am »
0

Why not have card arts as free avatars and let people buy a custom avatar for a few dollars?
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2016, 11:09:30 am »
0



This was just such a bad idea. Why did Making Fun include it in the game...? They got so lazy, and just copied the code instead of writing new code... Like, why, guys? Why? I'd want to rewrite the code from scratch. Goko's implementation was Stage 42 cancer.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2016, 11:37:28 am »
+3

Avatars should just be card art.

Nah. I think it should be whatever people want, within reasonable limits (like no pornography or whatever). It's classy when WW has his classic Death Star avatar, or when I had my Mario avatar back in the day (I wouldn't use it now, I'd probably use Card Art), but you get my point.

Letting people use whatever they want necessitates some sort of feedback and moderation system to review and remove offensive avatars. That doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's extra (ongoing) work that doesn't directly contribute to the product.

I'd rather have a built-in tool that lets users choose and crop card art.
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Witherweaver

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2016, 09:55:05 am »
+10

This should be posted in the proper channel, regarding Enchantress:

I hereby require that the new Online version change the affected card's art to a pig.
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michaeljb

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2016, 02:02:48 pm »
+5

Here's a low-priority idea that could be fun: a "puzzle" mode where people can try out/verify their solutions to puzzles.

Some important features for such a mode (probably obvious, but whatever):

* change the number of players
* toggle whether it's a "perfect shuffle luck" puzzle (ie have the computer shuffle, or set the order yourself on each shuffle)
* set the use of Colonies+Platinum/Shelters/Events/Landmarks outside of the recommended setup rules

For things like the infinite loop puzzle, you'd want to be able to add lines to the log describing key pieces of the state; eg once you have the hand you need, you'd dump the contents of your hand/the trash/your current buys and coins, then once you've executed the loop you'd dump the same stuff again, showing you increased your buys and coins, and the same cards are ready for you to do it again.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2016, 02:19:40 am »
+2

My only high-priority request that hasn't been mentioned is a kingdom chooser which can choose random while excluding certain cards (like you could do with Goko Salvager).
It's fine if it's casual-only.

SkyHard

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2016, 06:19:41 am »
+1

It would be cool to have an interface for the bots so that interested people (like me  ::) - it's Java right?) could create their own bots. :-*
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2016, 04:05:05 pm »
+1

I'd enjoy a mode where 3 or 5 kingdoms are listed, and players strike ones they don't want to play on, and then they play whatever kingdom is left.  I think that wouldn't be too hard? Anyway, some version of isotropic's veto mode seems worth the effort, seems reasonably low effort high reward, although I didn't like how that veto mode was implemented exactly because it was a bit surgical.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2016, 04:08:46 pm »
+2

It would be great if there's a button that pulls up the FAQ for all of the cards being used in the current game.
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Limetime

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2016, 06:15:42 pm »
+4

Ability to trash all your yellow cards at any point in the game for free.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2016, 06:19:05 pm »
+1

Ability to trash all your yellow cards at any point in the game for free.

Considering SCSN is involved making this, we might see that come true.
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2016, 06:57:04 pm »
0

It would be great if there's a button that pulls up the FAQ for all of the cards being used in the current game.

Man, I can't see Stef or SCSN doing this, and adding all the bells and whistles people want too. There's a point where it should be enough.

I think custom avatars, a good workable interface, and rooms for matchmaking are all we really need. Tournament stuff and everything else can be added as needed later.
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SCSN

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2016, 04:38:20 am »
+12

Ability to trash all your yellow cards at any point in the game for free.

Who said there will be yellow cards at all? ;)

It would be great if there's a button that pulls up the FAQ for all of the cards being used in the current game.

Man, I can't see Stef or SCSN doing this, and adding all the bells and whistles people want too. There's a point where it should be enough.

We surely won't implement everything that gets suggested, but since reading suggestions takes very little time, I'd say: keep them coming!
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Awaclus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #85 on: May 19, 2016, 04:43:33 am »
+1

I think custom avatars, a good workable interface, and rooms for matchmaking are all we really need. Tournament stuff and everything else can be added as needed later.

I still think that custom avatars shouldn't be possible at all, or at most something that you can purchase for actual money and/or win as a reward for tournaments and stuff, because if everyone has a custom avatar, things can get out of hand super easily, especially when it's a small company handling everything.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #86 on: May 19, 2016, 08:00:21 am »
0

I think custom avatars, a good workable interface, and rooms for matchmaking are all we really need. Tournament stuff and everything else can be added as needed later.

I still think that custom avatars shouldn't be possible at all, or at most something that you can purchase for actual money and/or win as a reward for tournaments and stuff, because if everyone has a custom avatar, things can get out of hand super easily, especially when it's a small company handling everything.

The world didn't seem to burn down when Salvager supported this feature. There will be some spam and some bad avatars, but a Report button and a half dozen volunteer mods and the problem is mitigated.
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Awaclus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2016, 08:47:20 am »
+2

The world didn't seem to burn down when Salvager supported this feature. There will be some spam and some bad avatars, but a Report button and a half dozen volunteer mods and the problem is mitigated.

Most people didn't have Salvager.
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wachsmuth

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2016, 09:41:44 am »
+11

Desktop or push notifications, such as those Steam or Lichess.org use. When the Dominion client is minimized, I still want to be notified if someone challenges me to a game or if it's my turn. Currently, you have to periodically check back on the client if you want to be notified of it, which means that many times people have sent me challenges that I haven't responded to.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2016, 09:29:04 pm »
+5

Desktop or push notifications, such as those Steam or Lichess.org use. When the Dominion client is minimized, I still want to be notified if someone challenges me to a game or if it's my turn. Currently, you have to periodically check back on the client if you want to be notified of it, which means that many times people have sent me challenges that I haven't responded to.

It actually does make noise when that happens.  But no one has the sound on in MF's client.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #90 on: May 20, 2016, 04:32:07 pm »
+1

After playing a game against someone who used every curse word he knew and directed them towards me for the crime of getting super lucky in a Scrying Pool mirror (by not buying treasure on a Fishing Village board, derp), I kinda don't feel like custom-avatars-or-not will be difference on whether users will be capable of being abusive towards other users in some way, so might as well enable them if you're not going to go 100% Hearthstone and disable chat also.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2016, 04:51:01 pm »
+3

Or you could use filters so you can't discuss strategies behind ambbuttador.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2016, 05:47:28 pm »
+2

After playing a game against someone who used every curse word he knew and directed them towards me for the crime of getting super lucky in a Scrying Pool mirror (by not buying treasure on a Fishing Village board, derp), I kinda don't feel like custom-avatars-or-not will be difference on whether users will be capable of being abusive towards other users in some way, so might as well enable them if you're not going to go 100% Hearthstone and disable chat also.
At least you can't put images in chat.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #93 on: May 22, 2016, 01:18:45 pm »
+2

(2p games only) When one player has achieved guaranteed victory by having more than half of the available VP, maybe display a message to the losing player and make the resign button more prominent for them?

Obviously there are a lot of kingdoms where it's not as simple as "I have half of the printed VP in the Supply, my victory is guaranteed" but sometimes the game does get to a state like that, the trailing player doesn't know they have no mathematical chance, and the player in the lead needs to take a few turns to empty 3 piles, or hit $8 a couple more times, or whatever. At that point, there is nothing interesting for either player to do, so it'd be in both players' interest to end the game now.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2016, 01:23:44 pm »
+10

After playing a game against someone who used every curse word he knew and directed them towards me for the crime of getting super lucky in a Scrying Pool mirror (by not buying treasure on a Fishing Village board, derp), I kinda don't feel like custom-avatars-or-not will be difference on whether users will be capable of being abusive towards other users in some way, so might as well enable them if you're not going to go 100% Hearthstone and disable chat also.
At least you can't put images in chat.

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Joseph2302

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2016, 07:52:46 am »
+2

Just to check, when are the sparkliness of the animations going to be revealed to the public?
It's the thing I'm most looking forward to in this implementation- Goko/Making Fun didn't have enough.
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ravi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2016, 05:36:31 am »
0

If the "Play All Treasures" Button does not actually play all your treasures, I think it should say so on the button very clearly. Maybe some type of color change or something. This was quite annoying: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0

Alternatively there could actually be a "Play All Treasures Button" with a cautious Treasures button in the normal place, but this one somewhere else. Sometimes I just want to play all my treasures including all alternate treasures.
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Accatitippi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2016, 08:54:03 am »
+2

I would happily do without a "play all treasures" button in games involving Grand Market, Mint, Mandarin, Counterfeit &Co., if I were given an option.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2016, 09:06:12 am »
0

If the "Play All Treasures" Button does not actually play all your treasures, I think it should say so on the button very clearly. Maybe some type of color change or something. This was quite annoying: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0

Alternatively there could actually be a "Play All Treasures Button" with a cautious Treasures button in the normal place, but this one somewhere else. Sometimes I just want to play all my treasures including all alternate treasures.

Another solution I see for this would be to require the player to click on a Begin Buying button before starting to buy anything. This would also prevent stuff like that example you noted in the other thread about Swindling the opponent's Estate, as well as cases of buying Borrow before playing your treasures.

ravi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2016, 09:49:00 am »
+2

If the "Play All Treasures" Button does not actually play all your treasures, I think it should say so on the button very clearly. Maybe some type of color change or something. This was quite annoying: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0

Alternatively there could actually be a "Play All Treasures Button" with a cautious Treasures button in the normal place, but this one somewhere else. Sometimes I just want to play all my treasures including all alternate treasures.

Another solution I see for this would be to require the player to click on a Begin Buying button before starting to buy anything. This would also prevent stuff like that example you noted in the other thread about Swindling the opponent's Estate, as well as cases of buying Borrow before playing your treasures.

I think the simpler solution is to have the '+' button on swindler be a different color than the '+' button when you gain cards yourself. In fact you could have a different color for gaining, buying, and sending cards to your opponent. (not sure how many other mechanics I'm missing that are unique here, so there may not be enough colors for all of them).
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wachsmuth

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2016, 09:58:39 am »
0

If the "Play All Treasures" Button does not actually play all your treasures, I think it should say so on the button very clearly. Maybe some type of color change or something. This was quite annoying: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0

Alternatively there could actually be a "Play All Treasures Button" with a cautious Treasures button in the normal place, but this one somewhere else. Sometimes I just want to play all my treasures including all alternate treasures.

Another solution I see for this would be to require the player to click on a Begin Buying button before starting to buy anything. This would also prevent stuff like that example you noted in the other thread about Swindling the opponent's Estate, as well as cases of buying Borrow before playing your treasures.

I think the simpler solution is to have the '+' button on swindler be a different color than the '+' button when you gain cards yourself. In fact you could have a different color for gaining, buying, and sending cards to your opponent. (not sure how many other mechanics I'm missing that are unique here, so there may not be enough colors for all of them).

There's also Contraband, Embargo, placing tokens (Teacher, Pathfinding, Seaway, Lost Arts, Training, Ferry, Plan), Inheritance and probably more.
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ravi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2016, 10:32:49 am »
0

If the "Play All Treasures" Button does not actually play all your treasures, I think it should say so on the button very clearly. Maybe some type of color change or something. This was quite annoying: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0

Alternatively there could actually be a "Play All Treasures Button" with a cautious Treasures button in the normal place, but this one somewhere else. Sometimes I just want to play all my treasures including all alternate treasures.

Another solution I see for this would be to require the player to click on a Begin Buying button before starting to buy anything. This would also prevent stuff like that example you noted in the other thread about Swindling the opponent's Estate, as well as cases of buying Borrow before playing your treasures.

I think the simpler solution is to have the '+' button on swindler be a different color than the '+' button when you gain cards yourself. In fact you could have a different color for gaining, buying, and sending cards to your opponent. (not sure how many other mechanics I'm missing that are unique here, so there may not be enough colors for all of them).

There's also Contraband, Embargo, placing tokens (Teacher, Pathfinding, Seaway, Lost Arts, Training, Ferry, Plan), Inheritance and probably more.

Hmm for those, the icon shouldn't even have a '+', in my opinion, since you aren't adding the card to a deck. Maybe for the tokens, little tokens could be on each pile and you click on the token to add it there. For contraband, you could have a red 'x' instead of a '+' or something like that.
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Limetime

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2016, 11:07:49 pm »
+2

The ability to test fan made cards would be nice.
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #103 on: May 31, 2016, 11:14:57 pm »
+1

I still don't understand why in the title, "features" is in quotes, like the author of the thread was so disillusioned with Dominion applications that he just assumed that all of this fancy wishing would never come to pass.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #104 on: June 01, 2016, 07:31:16 pm »
0

Have you talked about/decided how you determine how many events/landmarks will be used when generating random Kingdoms? As in, will you stick to what Donald recommended or will it be random?
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JW

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2016, 07:42:52 pm »
+2

Having the option to continue a won-by-resignation game vs. AI. For 3+ player games, this is particularly important. One possibility is to add the bot closest in skill level to the resigned player.

Choosing to play it out against the AI shouldn't negate your victory against the player who resigned. How scoring should work in 3+ player games is more complicated (does the played-out with AI game matter in determining the place of the continuing players relative to each other? Seems fine to me that it does).

Obv. ideally you have the option of continuing a won-by-resignation game vs. AI.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 08:17:07 pm by JW »
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2016, 07:59:51 pm »
0

If someone resigns online 1v1, I don't think I'd want to continue play, as it's just an AI. I can see this becoming more of an issue in multiplayer though.
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pacovf

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2016, 12:35:23 am »
+6

So, you know, now that you have your very own version of Dominion online...

This is fantastic. Much more please!

If there's even the slightest chance that MF would implement these cards for April Fool's day 2016, I'd be looking forward to it all year.
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SCSN

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2016, 03:50:34 am »
+11

Have you talked about/decided how you determine how many events/landmarks will be used when generating random Kingdoms? As in, will you stick to what Donald recommended or will it be random?

AFAIK Donald's recommendation is random? It just doesn't lead to a uniform distribution and can't produce numbers greater than 2. We'll probably stick to that for rated games, maybe something like 3-4 max for all publicly enterable games (you don't want someone tricking unsuspecting players into nonsense games), and however many you want in solitaire and games vs. friends and bots. Be aware that I'm not going to promise a nice UI for the "however many you want" version.

Having the option to continue a won-by-resignation game vs. AI. For 3+ player games, this is particularly important. One possibility is to add the bot closest in skill level to the resigned player.

We'll have this.

If someone resigns online 1v1, I don't think I'd want to continue play, as it's just an AI.

Optionality is an option's defining characteristic. And for sure you'd keep the win regardless of your result against the bot.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2016, 04:43:45 am »
0

I would personally go with up to 4 events/landmarks per game, any combination of which would be allowed. In my own gaming, I never use more than 3 events at a time, but I actually quite prefer 3 to the recommended 2.

EDIT: Also, will people who get the online subscription still be allowed to play against bots online? I ask because most of my online Dominion is with my family and friends, but I sometimes play with bots to test strategies.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:44:52 am by RevanFan »
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Orange

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #110 on: June 06, 2016, 11:03:51 am »
+5

I haven't read the thread; apologies if this is redundant.  While there are a lot of things we'd like to see that we don't currently have, I'd say there are a few in MF that I hope don't disappear.  For what it's worth:

Colors to match card types in the game log
Subtle change from black to green font when prices are reduced via Bridge or the like
Various colors (or some other way) to highlight whether you are choosing a card to play, to discard, to topdeck, to pass, or to trash
Appropriate colors anywhere it makes sense, like the green (victory) background on the score counter
The Province sound--I like the audible reminder that my opponent just got one
The quick midscreen display of the card being gained
The recap/scoring screen

I'm sure most of these are already considered and probably interpreted and built differently than MF.  I just didn't want anything useful to fall through the cracks.
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LastFootnote

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #111 on: June 06, 2016, 12:00:28 pm »
+1

I haven't read the thread; apologies if this is redundant.  While there are a lot of things we'd like to see that we don't currently have, I'd say there are a few in MF that I hope don't disappear.  For what it's worth:

Colors to match card types in the game log
Subtle change from black to green font when prices are reduced via Bridge or the like
Various colors (or some other way) to highlight whether you are choosing a card to play, to discard, to topdeck, to pass, or to trash
Appropriate colors anywhere it makes sense, like the green (victory) background on the score counter
The Province sound--I like the audible reminder that my opponent just got one
The quick midscreen display of the card being gained
The recap/scoring screen

I'm sure most of these are already considered and probably interpreted and built differently than MF.  I just didn't want anything useful to fall through the cracks.

Building on this, I like a lot of the design decisions MF made for Adventures, including the Swamp Hag and Haunted Woods "tokens" and the fact that the little buy plus-sign turns orange to remind you that buying a card will hit you with an attack.

One thing they don't have that I think would be great is some sort of easily visible effect when another player buys an Event. For those of us who don't like to keep our log open, it would be nice to be clearly shown when another player buys e.g. Pilgrimage.
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #112 on: June 06, 2016, 04:09:44 pm »
+9

(2p games only) When one player has achieved guaranteed victory by having more than half of the available VP, maybe display a message to the losing player and make the resign button more prominent for them?

Obviously there are a lot of kingdoms where it's not as simple as "I have half of the printed VP in the Supply, my victory is guaranteed" but sometimes the game does get to a state like that, the trailing player doesn't know they have no mathematical chance, and the player in the lead needs to take a few turns to empty 3 piles, or hit $8 a couple more times, or whatever. At that point, there is nothing interesting for either player to do, so it'd be in both players' interest to end the game now.

There's this early phase in your Dominion experience where you're kind of taking a Timmy approach to the game, just kind of seeing how good of a deck you can build, and not worrying super hard about whether games are technically winnable.  I would hate for this feature to put a damper on early Dominion experiences - it could be frustrating to have the resign button glow right as the final Village that really makes your engine start Provincing each turn gets into your deck, while you are still practicing building your first few engines.

The implementation I would prefer is that the VP total for the player who has the victorious amount of points glows, without any indication of what that means.

In games without the point tracker, the feature seems inappropriate anyway.
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markus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2016, 05:23:15 am »
+1

It would be good to simply be able to make that resign button glow for the other player to show them that you're happy, if they resign.
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Burning Skull

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2016, 07:52:31 am »
+7

It would be good to simply be able to make that resign button glow for the other player to show them that you're happy, if they resign.


gl hf resign please?

Limetime

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2016, 08:50:05 am »
+6

You should test updates on all clients before releasing them.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2016, 09:10:05 am »
0

It would be good to simply be able to make that resign button glow for the other player to show them that you're happy, if they resign.


gl hf resign please?
In the current client, using the chat is not really convenient  ;)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2016, 02:07:09 pm »
0

(2p games only) When one player has achieved guaranteed victory by having more than half of the available VP, maybe display a message to the losing player and make the resign button more prominent for them?

Obviously there are a lot of kingdoms where it's not as simple as "I have half of the printed VP in the Supply, my victory is guaranteed" but sometimes the game does get to a state like that, the trailing player doesn't know they have no mathematical chance, and the player in the lead needs to take a few turns to empty 3 piles, or hit $8 a couple more times, or whatever. At that point, there is nothing interesting for either player to do, so it'd be in both players' interest to end the game now.

There's this early phase in your Dominion experience where you're kind of taking a Timmy approach to the game, just kind of seeing how good of a deck you can build, and not worrying super hard about whether games are technically winnable.  I would hate for this feature to put a damper on early Dominion experiences - it could be frustrating to have the resign button glow right as the final Village that really makes your engine start Provincing each turn gets into your deck, while you are still practicing building your first few engines.

The implementation I would prefer is that the VP total for the player who has the victorious amount of points glows, without any indication of what that means.

In games without the point tracker, the feature seems inappropriate anyway.

Definitely would not want this in games without the point tracker.

For me, when a game gets into this state, there are no more interesting decisions and I'd rather get started on the next game.

There have been discussions about players resigning but you still want the fun of playing out your deck, so the player who resigned gets replaced with an AI; maybe instead of encouraging resignation, we could have sort of the inverse of that: you have a guaranteed victory, so you can leave the game to find a new one, while your opponent has the option of playing to the bitter end against an AI.

Maybe that solution is still too unfriendly, and it's true that this situation isn't that common (especially with good matchmaking--assuming there are enough players online to find you an even match), but it is really irritating when it does happen.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2016, 05:45:25 pm »
+3

I don't think there's enough demand for a "tlloyd bot" feature in 1v1 games.  Haven't seen that guy himself around anymore.

Once matchmaking is fixed, you're not going to need a feature that coaxes your opponents into resigning when it's impossible for them to win, a subtle indicator that lets them know one player has the majority of all VP is plenty.  If this feature is making your top 5, it's probably because when you play on MakingFun the matchmaking is horrible so you're playing against people way worse than you who are in that Timmy phase, a better matchmaker will keep you away from them for the most part, and I trust the new overlords to handle that.  The important thing is that I don't want the Timmies playing eachother to get this negatively framed message.

EDIT: Rereading your message you said that yourself, oops!  I think we're kind of all on the same page about it with just very slightly differing opinions.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #119 on: June 09, 2016, 08:45:43 am »
+4

Pretty sure it has already been requested but I just thought I'd add my voice ...

The one thing I still really miss from isotopic is the miss-click prevention. I can't even remember exactly how it worked on isotopic now after all this time. But I do remember that it was set up so that when would go to trash/discard my best card by accident isotopic would give me a chance to reconsider whether I really wanted to be that stoopid. So form of mis-click protection that works better than MF, if you please!  ;D

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #120 on: June 09, 2016, 09:30:57 am »
+3

I wanna be a character you fight in Story mode. Challenger Seprix, Villager Seprix, Seprix the Court Jester, whatever.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #121 on: June 09, 2016, 09:42:34 am »
+4

I wanna be a character you fight in Story mode. Challenger Seprix, Villager Seprix, Seprix the Court Jester, whatever.
Ooh, and you could also have RR bot, who has an obsession with buying scouts!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2016, 02:52:45 am »
0

Building your own campaign levels/scenarios would be a very cool - if strictly unnecessary - feature.

Choose starting gamestate, variant rules, ai, and then post your levels for others to enjoy. (it sort of expands the "puzzle mode" feature request somebody else made, with perfect shuffle luck being one of the possible variants)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2016, 05:14:09 pm »
+3

It would be great to have a way to offer a draw (as if the game was tied).

Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2016, 05:17:13 pm »
+1

It would be great to have a way to offer a draw (as if the game was tied).

Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.

Or.... Ban Possession.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #125 on: June 10, 2016, 05:23:03 pm »
+2

It would be great to have a way to offer a draw (as if the game was tied).

Or.... Ban Possession.

I'd certainly be happy with "veto lists" where cards randomly added to Kingdoms (and the Black Market) don't use cards that all players have on their veto lists. Then hopefully everyone else also wants to veto Possession, Cultist, and Rebuild.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #126 on: June 10, 2016, 07:30:24 pm »
0

It would be great to have a way to offer a draw (as if the game was tied).

Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.

Or.... Ban Possession.
I'm not opposed to this
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #127 on: June 10, 2016, 09:32:54 pm »
0

If the new client implements a point counter, I would like for there to somehow be an option to show how many points are the result of Landmarks, unless Landmark points aren't going to be calculated for the point counter until the end of the game. I think cards like Keep, Triumphal Arch, and Orchard will make the source of points on the point counter very ambiguous, and you might not be aware of how a single purchase/gain can result in a massive point swing on the last turn.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #128 on: June 11, 2016, 08:01:10 am »
+7

How about a button that instantly calls Donald on Skype to ask for advice on the current kingdom? Ideally, and reasonably, it should also send the current kingdom immediately to him and the current cards that me and my opponent have for ideal advice.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #129 on: June 11, 2016, 12:52:52 pm »
+1

I'd rather have Stef or SCSN on the "Moscow-Washingtonesque" Dominion red phone, but hey, Donald is a nice 3rd place. I'm sure he'd charge $5 a minute though. You know, because they can't all be the best $5-a-minute phone service ever.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2016, 03:41:09 am »
+2

Hi,

I never posted in this forum.
My only hope is to find a good matchmaking and I think you have already all the good ideas for that.
I don't want to see what MF answered me in this thread : http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10729-Random-is-not-random
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2016, 04:18:20 am »
+1

Hi,

I never posted in this forum.

Hi Emeric, and welcome to the forum!

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #132 on: June 13, 2016, 05:18:08 am »
0

Hi ;) I would say never in this thread ;) but often in the forum ;)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2016, 03:36:03 pm »
0

I think we don't really know what biased kingdom selection features will look like early on, but I think it's not hard to agree that unilateral kingdom biasing should be removed so I doubt you'll have to put up with it under the new overlords.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #134 on: June 14, 2016, 12:10:59 pm »
+4

Registered just to mention the one feature I've been hoping for ever since this new matchmaking mechanism came out: the ability to see who you're matched up with (and their stats) and accept/decline the match prior to starting a game. I've lost count of the number of times I've been put right back into a game with someone I just played who did extreme slow play once they were losing, just generally played slower then I can stand/have time for, or for whatever reason I just don't want to play again (at least right now). This is somewhat similar to a blacklist feature but at times there are players I don't want to get matched with right now but maybe in the future. Having no control over who you get put into a game with is frustrating and should be a basic fix.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2016, 03:12:27 pm »
0

I am very much convinced that the new Dominion client will be wonderful, having seen what SCSN implemented with the MFM. Therefore I am expecting it to exceed my expectations anyway.

What I currently miss very much is indeed a proper matchmaking that enables me to play against sincere, serious players who love a good game; and not some random dudes that are writing questionmarks in the chat after only 60 secs of initial consideration time (which are that type of people that continue during the game to try making me play faster by writing further remarks - as if that helps).

I do know that a lot of thought is necessary for the designers to ensure a good online experience and that there are many possibilities (whitelists, blacklists, options for gameseeking, quantifier for the strictness of these options, etc.) to achieve this. Here I also trust in the programming team and I do not expect a perfect solution out of the box.

Maybe an option to mute your opponent would be nice - and an option for a bot to take over for you when you get slowplayed, but dont want to relent and resign. Or an option where you could choose you playing speed: slow, medium, fast.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 11:42:53 am by SirD »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #136 on: June 14, 2016, 04:29:10 pm »
0

That's another thing that will probably be mitigated by sufficiently good matchmaking.  I didn't really deal with that at rank 30 on isotropic, probably because if you never take 40 seconds to consider a board you have trouble getting to rank 30.

The most important thing is whether there will be a big enough playerbase to have a good close match to pair you with.  Hopefully subscription doesn't turn people off enough for that to be a problem.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #137 on: June 14, 2016, 04:38:02 pm »
+1

paying $150 up front seems more of a turn off than $3 a month.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #138 on: June 15, 2016, 03:43:07 am »
+2

What I currently miss very much is indeed a proper matchmaking that enables me to play against sincere, serious players who love a good game; and not some random dudes that are writing questionmarks in the chat after only 60 secs of initial consideration time.

A "?" is a reasonable check if someone is there, when you now and then are matched with people who just don't do anything at all, and then disappear.

Just make your presence known. If you don't chat, then play your treasures after thinking for some time (inb4 Alms) so the opponent sees that there is somewhere there.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #139 on: June 15, 2016, 07:06:42 am »
+1

What I currently miss very much is indeed a proper matchmaking that enables me to play against sincere, serious players who love a good game; and not some random dudes that are writing questionmarks in the chat after only 60 secs of initial consideration time.

A "?" is a reasonable check if someone is there, when you now and then are matched with people who just don't do anything at all, and then disappear.

Just make your presence known. If you don't chat, then play your treasures after thinking for some time (inb4 Alms) so the opponent sees that there is somewhere there.

This is the actual reason to type out "good luck, have fun!" before every match - sure it's to be nice to your opponent or whatever, but what you're really saying is "I'm a person and I am actually here, looking at the Kingdom".
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #140 on: June 15, 2016, 02:25:46 pm »
+1

By the plural "question marks", I assumed he meant "???".  Which has a different connotation.


"?" is, are you there? just thinking?  "???" is, why are you taking this long?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #141 on: June 15, 2016, 04:40:36 pm »
+2

This is the actual reason to type out "good luck, have fun!" before every match - sure it's to be nice to your opponent or whatever, but what you're really saying is "I'm a person and I am actually here, looking at the Kingdom".

Or "I use a client that sends an automatic canned message at the start of each game" :-)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #142 on: June 15, 2016, 04:47:15 pm »
+2

Just say something weird and garden pathy, like "The complex houses married and single soldiers and their families." By the time your opponent is finished thinking about the weirdness and complexity of the sentence, you will have thought of a strategy. Maybe your opponent will even time out, netting you a free win.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #143 on: June 16, 2016, 03:58:29 am »
+6

Just say something weird and garden pathy, like "The complex houses married and single soldiers and their families." By the time your opponent is finished thinking about the weirdness and complexity of the sentence, you will have thought of a strategy. Maybe your opponent will even time out, netting you a free win.

I tried saying "This statement is false" to Lord Bottington, but it didn't find anything wrong with that. Talk about shabby programming.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #144 on: June 17, 2016, 09:04:37 am »
0

Just say something weird and garden pathy, like "The complex houses married and single soldiers and their families." By the time your opponent is finished thinking about the weirdness and complexity of the sentence, you will have thought of a strategy. Maybe your opponent will even time out, netting you a free win.

I tried saying "This statement is false" to Lord Bottington, but it didn't find anything wrong with that. Talk about shabby programming.

They need to program the bots to chat with you!

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #145 on: June 17, 2016, 11:12:14 am »
0

They need to program the bots to chat with you!

The chat of Lord Bottington:
"You'll never beat my Big Money Rats strategy!"
"Behold, I play Laboratory! That allows me to draw two more cards!"
"I see you've bought the 7th Province. Foolish boy, this fight is not over yet!"
"...do you dream of electric sheep?"
"Rats!"
"Eyyy, Aye!"
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #146 on: June 18, 2016, 02:35:03 am »
0

Adjusting the volume of the sound should be possible.

I have no idea why that is not possible in the current client.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #147 on: June 18, 2016, 04:55:12 am »
+7

Adjusting the volume of the sound should be possible.

I have no idea why that is not possible in the current client.

At least 3 volume controls please.

1) Music
2) Sounds effects
3) Notifications (your turn to act, game found)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2016, 09:55:10 am »
+3

This might already have been covered, but these are the features I think will resonate best with the Dominion demographic:

1. In-depth player statistics aggregate. I wanna see how much I suck with Tactician, or how much I overestimate my 5/2-skills on Mountebank-boards. Winrates, game length, buy-frequency - you name it!  As mentioned earlier in this thread, ingame access to such a stats profile would be really neat. On a strategically ambiguous board, it would be fun to know your opponent's buying tendencies. Meta-strats.

2. A rating system that inspires improvement. I want a badge showcasing how much I suck, and complementary extravagant badges glorifying the very best of the best. The underlying MMR doesnt have to be hidden, but simply supplemented by something flashier than a 4-digit number. Starcraft does this in a semi-decent fashion, disabling mid-season demotions. In this sense, everybody gets the illusion of progressing throughout the season (a la Hearthstone).

These features might be mostly cosmetic, but their importance for game enjoyment is of great significance IMO.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2016, 01:59:43 pm »
+1

Two gameplay ideas that could be discussed:

1. The first thing came into my mind because Donald had suggested it a 2 years ago to MF. Maybe you have already covered it to be more consistent with the rules. It is considering discarding multiple cards from the hand at the same time. I think Donald gave the example for Militia. You would have a "choose cards" phase for selecting/ deselecting the cards to discard, then discard afterwards. Something like this could be done for playing Treasures as well. At the start of the Buy phase, all Treasures are highlighted by default, and you could click on them to remove the highlighting, so they don't get played by the "play all Treasures" button.

2. How about a possibility to turn on default settings that work on specific card effects? E.g. you could do the straightforward start-of-turn effects (Caravan, Wharf, Merchant Ship etc.) automatically at the very start of the turn (before doing crazier stuff like Dungeon). So the player could decide for every game if they want that, for example in games with Guide you might not want it... This decision could be an optional button ("auto-resolve this game" or something in these lines) that appears every game when you first have that specific effect. If you want, you can always go to settings to stop auto-resolve. Other things that could be auto-resolved besides start-of-turn are topdecking (Alchemist/ Treasury/ Walled Village), upgrading Travellers, revealing Reaction cards to Attacks, revealing Provinces to other player's Tournaments, for Torturer gain curse if the pile is empty. Maybe more?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2016, 02:02:33 pm »
0

Two gameplay ideas that could be discussed:

1. The first thing came into my mind because Donald had suggested it a 2 years ago to MF. Maybe you have already covered it to be more consistent with the rules. It is considering discarding multiple cards from the hand at the same time. I think Donald gave the example for Militia. You would have a "choose cards" phase for selecting/ deselecting the cards to discard, then discard afterwards. Something like this could be done for playing Treasures as well. At the start of the Buy phase, all Treasures are highlighted by default, and you could click on them to remove the highlighting, so they don't get played by the "play all Treasures" button.

Have this be optional, please. I don't want to be slowed down when I know I'm not making a mistake.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2016, 02:14:45 pm »
+1

Okay, maybe it is not very helpful for Militia (Donald was adressing server stability issues), but I think it'd be a helpful implementation of the "Play Treasures" button that wouldn't slow you down.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2016, 07:39:49 pm »
+1

Two gameplay ideas that could be discussed:

1. The first thing came into my mind because Donald had suggested it a 2 years ago to MF. Maybe you have already covered it to be more consistent with the rules. It is considering discarding multiple cards from the hand at the same time. I think Donald gave the example for Militia. You would have a "choose cards" phase for selecting/ deselecting the cards to discard, then discard afterwards. Something like this could be done for playing Treasures as well. At the start of the Buy phase, all Treasures are highlighted by default, and you could click on them to remove the highlighting, so they don't get played by the "play all Treasures" button.

2. How about a possibility to turn on default settings that work on specific card effects? E.g. you could do the straightforward start-of-turn effects (Caravan, Wharf, Merchant Ship etc.) automatically at the very start of the turn (before doing crazier stuff like Dungeon). So the player could decide for every game if they want that, for example in games with Guide you might not want it... This decision could be an optional button ("auto-resolve this game" or something in these lines) that appears every game when you first have that specific effect. If you want, you can always go to settings to stop auto-resolve. Other things that could be auto-resolved besides start-of-turn are topdecking (Alchemist/ Treasury/ Walled Village), upgrading Travellers, revealing Reaction cards to Attacks, revealing Provinces to other player's Tournaments, for Torturer gain curse if the pile is empty. Maybe more?
Since 2 has been (or at least partially) implemented in SCSN's MMF mod, we can assume that it will make its way to their game :)
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Nflickner

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #153 on: June 22, 2016, 02:26:27 am »
+4

The ability to test fan made cards would be nice.

I think that implementing a function within the client for fan made cards to be used would be very fun. 
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #154 on: June 22, 2016, 09:00:23 am »
+2

MF just implemented a feature where the color of the number indicating the number of cards left in a pile changes from blue to red as the pile gets low. You should totally just copy that. Maybe with better choice in colors.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #155 on: June 22, 2016, 11:36:01 am »
+2

The absolute worst thing about Making Fun's implementation is freaking Scheme when you have a zillion Action cards on screen. I cannot tell you how many times I misclicked what I wanted, picking the wrong card instead. In fact, the organization of cards in your hand is poor in general. Suppose I have 30 cards in my deck and I want to trash an Estate. I also have a Colony in my hand. How do I know which is which? In fact, this happened with vsiewnar a couple of days ago, and it was hilarious. Yes, you can see the card costs, but that is no excuse for poor interface.

I posted this elsewhere, but I really really really want this to not be an issue with the new client.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #156 on: June 22, 2016, 09:34:15 pm »
+3

Scheme is a nightmare on MF.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #157 on: June 23, 2016, 08:59:05 pm »
0

Ranking system suggestion: Rating decay/Play bonus. The objective being to deter ppl from "sitting" on a satisfactory rank. Doesn't have to be something major, perhaps just a steady increase in attainable points concordant to playing three matches a day or whatever. The points would be accumulatable, i. e binge-playing could compensate for a longer hiatus. Starcraft calls this concept their "Bonus pool", enforcing top level ranked matchmaking frequency. This is of course independent of the underlying match making rating (MMR). With this system, the player with the best MMR would still be incentivised to maintain rated play. This in turn increases sample size, reduces skill uncertainty (variance) and raises the general level of ladder gameplay. Should me great, methinks :)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #158 on: June 24, 2016, 09:57:57 am »
+4

Rating decay has always been a pretty popular concept but it's never really made sense to me.  The point of a rating is to predict the winners of games as accurately as possible.  This benefits both lower ranked players and higher ranked players as a match that has a 50% chance of being won by either side is much more likely to be fun.

There is no reason to believe someone who took a hiatus from Dominion has gotten very much worse at it at all.  There actually might be some merit to that idea in SC, where some muscle memory might try to go AWOL or a popular opening strategy could fall out of favor during the hiatus.

Sure, you can deliberately set someone's rating at a value that you know does not represent their skill to create a negative incentive so they'll do what you want, and apparently you want them to play Dominion all the time and never take a week off to play Pac Man.  Which yeah, increases the accuracy of MMR when your sample size of games is even larger.

But the slight decrease in uncertainty for the 1 or 2 players that want to play less but enslave themselves from uncertainty don't make up for the players who take a break for a bit, come back to it, then roflstomp weaker players (or note that, out of the games they lose, a high proportion are high variance), then decide maybe the break was an even better idea than before, and quit for good, because you set up a system that gives them a "welcome back" experience that shoves the ruins pile up their orifices.  I think pushing those players out of the game entirely (it'd only be one or two, but about the same as the number that actually bother to care about the mmr manipulation) lowers the overall level of ladder gameplay.

Other games that need rating decay need it because they are taking the top X rated players and doing invitational tournaments
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #159 on: June 24, 2016, 11:06:29 am »
+4

If we implement a rating decay it will probably of the order of a few iso levels per year.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #160 on: June 24, 2016, 11:10:04 am »
+5

There's also just: If you haven't played for more than [a week/2 weeks/whatever], you're removed from the ladder. Next time you play a game, you get your ranking back (modified by that game).
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Sciserr

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #161 on: June 24, 2016, 12:20:24 pm »
0

If we implement a rating decay it will probably of the order of a few iso levels per year.

Spoken as someone sitting comfortably at a high rank :P

The point of a rating is to predict the winners of games as accurately as possible. 

Correct, that's the point of the match making rating. The overt ranking points on the other hand, serve a primary play incentivising function. I am not suggesting MMR-decay for Dominion - although it's reasonable for SC, for the reasons you listed. Im suggesting an on-play ranking bonus, independent of MMR. If you pride yourself in having the highest MMR, perhaps generated through a small sample size with a disproportionately lucky upswing, you'll still be able to jerk off at that number. If you want the feature ranking to mirror this excellence however, you would have to average 3 rated matches a day - minimizing the long term risk of rating bias. And yeah; ppl play more rated Dominion. Thats should be a good thing as well :P
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 12:21:37 pm by Sciserr »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #162 on: June 24, 2016, 12:40:13 pm »
+1

The point of a rating is to predict the winners of games as accurately as possible. 

Correct, that's the point of the match making rating.

Uh, what? I thought the point was to match players of close to equal skill, for those who care about such things.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #163 on: June 24, 2016, 12:48:21 pm »
0

The point of a rating is to predict the winners of games as accurately as possible. 

Correct, that's the point of the match making rating.

Uh, what? I thought the point was to match players of close to equal skill, for those who care about such things.

Isn't the one intrisically linked to the other? If I have intel on the comparative skill level between two players, I should be able to 1) predict the winner and 2) decide whether or not its an even/fair matchup.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #164 on: June 24, 2016, 12:51:43 pm »
+1

The point of a rating is to predict the winners of games as accurately as possible. 

Correct, that's the point of the match making rating.

Uh, what? I thought the point was to match players of close to equal skill, for those who care about such things.

Isn't the one intrisically linked to the other? If I have intel on the comparative skill level between two players, I should be able to 1) predict the winner and 2) decide whether or not its an even/fair matchup.
They're linked, but not the same. There's not much point in the mmr system being good at predicting wether someone has a 0.001% or a 20% chance of winning: As long as it knows the number is in that range, it knows it shouldn't make that match.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #165 on: June 24, 2016, 12:59:39 pm »
0

No argument there, then :) The advantages of having both an underlying MMR and an overt points-based ranking system are irrespective of what role we attribute the prior though.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #166 on: June 24, 2016, 01:05:37 pm »
+1

It seems pretty reasonable for a ranking system to have players ordered by what we estimate their probability of winning against others to be
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #167 on: June 24, 2016, 01:25:42 pm »
0

It seems pretty reasonable for a ranking system to have players ordered by what we estimate their probability of winning against others to be

Reasonable yes, incentivising no. Why not both? :)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #168 on: June 24, 2016, 03:17:18 pm »
+4

I think you might massively overrate how many flying rips anyone cares about how their rating appears to other people.  Literally nobody is trying to get a high rank then stop playing a game they enjoy in order to gain "bragging rights" among the eleventeen online Dominion players.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #169 on: June 24, 2016, 03:29:30 pm »
+9

If we implement a rating decay it will probably of the order of a few iso levels per year.

Spoken as someone sitting comfortably at a high rank :P

I won't be on the leaderboard.

And the exclusive aim of whatever rating decay we may introduce will be to model with a higher degree of accuracy the (d)evolution of skill as it occurs in the real world, e.g. to capture a dynamic such as players getting slightly worse relative to the field and possibly their former selves when they take a long break.

There will be no gimmicks to incentivize anything and no special bonus just for playing.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #170 on: June 24, 2016, 05:04:03 pm »
+3

I think you might massively overrate how many flying rips anyone cares about how their rating appears to other people.  Literally nobody is trying to get a high rank then stop playing a game they enjoy in order to gain "bragging rights" among the eleventeen online Dominion players.

Hmm, this argument I dont particularily agree with, and I'll try to outline why:

1. "Eleventeen online Dominion player". Currently 4338 people have played at least one match of rated dominion online within the last month. The eleventeen-joke might be a foresight of a massive decline in subscriptions come the new model, but lets stay positive and assume growth :P Although your humour hits home, I get a foul taste in my mouth realizing that your argument implies that Dominion Online 2017 should be designed to cater to a select few; the eleventeen, if you will. Look to literally any other game; catering to the casual gamers (4338 minus eleventeen, in Dominion Online's case) is what reaps in the dough.

2. "Literally nobody is gonna sit on rank". More than half the league matches I see on twitch are played as unrated games across all skill levels, even though the tournament default is rated. Now, there are many contributing factors here; reluctance to switch for MF dance amongst others. It is hard, however, envisioning rank satisfaction not playing a part here. Look to other games for verification. Be it Hearthstone ladder heroes waiting out their top 10 spot on the legend ladder, or the countless number of people complaining about ladder anxiety in Starcraft. Gamers care about rank. Its rather human, in fact. Grand publishers like Blizzard, Riot or Valve acknowledge this basic psychological premise, and mask MMR with ranking systems granting an illusory impression of improvement, regardless of performance. 

3. Nick Yee (2006) conducted some interesting research on gamer motivation. He argues all gaming incentives to fit in one of three overarching categories; Social motives, immersive motives or achievement motives. Save the occassional "glhf" in chat, Dominion online ladder is a rather asocial experience. Far all you know, you might as well be playing Lord Bottington on his road to rank 1. And unless you're incredibly superstitious, facing a Ghost Ship shouldn't really give you the shivers. Immersion's off the table. This leaves achievement, the primary spectacle of skill differentiation. Achievement encompasses a lot more than just ranking, but the point still stands: Dominion Online players play to win - or more correctly - to get the impression that they're "winning".   

References:
Yee, N. (2006). Motivations for Play in Online Games. Cyberpsychology & Behavior, 9(6), 772-775.


To SCSN:

I respect that decision, though without agreeing. I've made my arguments clear, and won't continue beating this apparantly dead horse.
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Donald X.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #171 on: June 24, 2016, 05:48:12 pm »
+1

3. Nick Yee (2006) conducted some interesting research on gamer motivation. He argues all gaming incentives to fit in one of three overarching categories; Social motives, immersive motives or achievement motives.
I do not find this list to be compelling. I am looking at it, he's just talking about MMORPG's. If you want to apply it broadly, then well which thing are Patience players motivated by?

Quote
Achievement component
Advancement—The desire to gain power, prog- ress rapidly, and accumulate in-game sym- bols of wealth or status
Mechanics—Having an interest in analyzing the underlying rules and system in order to optimize character performance
Competition—The desire to challenge and compete with others

Social component
Socializing—Having an interest in helping and chatting with other players
Relationship—The desire to form long-term meaningful relationships with others
Teamwork—Deriving satisfaction from being part of a group effort.

Immersion component
Discovery—Finding and knowing things that most other players don’t know about
Role-Playing—Creating a persona with a back- ground story and interacting with other players to create an improvised story
Customization—Having an interest in cus- tomizing the appearance of their character
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #172 on: June 24, 2016, 06:05:43 pm »
+6

Be it Hearthstone ladder heroes waiting out their top 10 spot on the legend ladder, or the countless number of people complaining about ladder anxiety in Starcraft.

For the anxiety part: there'll likely be an option to opt out of the leaderboard (neither you nor anyone else can see your rank) and have your rating only be used by the system for match making purposes. Things like achievements could then deliver a sense of accomplishment to those who don't like the ranking.

Besides, I think Dominion itself offers enough opportunities to get your accomplishment fix: winning a game in an unexpected way, building a marvelously roaring engine, finally pulling off that elusive combo, you name it. Personally, I loved the game long before I got anywhere close to the top or even felt like I was moving forwards, and I would not have gotten there had I not loved it so much.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2016, 06:57:48 pm »
+1

3. Nick Yee (2006) conducted some interesting research on gamer motivation. He argues all gaming incentives to fit in one of three overarching categories; Social motives, immersive motives or achievement motives.
I do not find this list to be compelling. I am looking at it, he's just talking about MMORPG's. If you want to apply it broadly, then well which thing are Patience players motivated by?


Thats an excellent question! I'll give it a go, applying Yee's framework++: *Boring Psych disclaimer*

1. "The Senior". First and foremost, Solitaire/Patience/Insert non immersive solo game, does not exist in a vacuum. Discussing strategy, exchanging tips, sharing bad luck induced frustration is all part of the socially derived Patience experience. Paradoxically, even this inherently unaccompanied game may be preceded by social motives.This motivational level applies to any game that you can share with someone else, naturally.

2. "The bragger". Given the opportunity to share his or her Patience experience, the player is also given the opportunity to boast. "My success rate is a solid x%, what's yours?". Achievement motives (competition) are not incompatible with the Patience experience.

3. "The Prisoner". Strict imprisonment (no expert here, this is US' domain :P) offers the perfect counterargument to points 1. and 2. Why do isolated individuals, almost completely deprived of human interaction, often turn to games of this nature? Here, we need to take a bit of a theoretical detour. Destination: Self-determination Theory (Ryan & Deci, 2011). King & Delfabbro (2009) investigate the relationship between gaming motivation and problematically excessive play, applying this theoretical framework. Irrespective of agenda; they discuss a very interesting concept; amotivated play. This is defined as "...playing without a sense of purpose about the activity...". Without delving too far into the original theory of basic psychological needs (tl;dr - all humans need to experience autonomy, competence, and relatedness in order to maintain intrinsic motivation), we can all relate to occassionally not being able to account for exactly why we're doing something. Games are no exception. "The prisoner" can be argued as an amotivated player. The psychoanalytic tradition would conceptualize this behaviour as a discomfort defence (repression of an insuffurable situation), but that is a theoretical quagmire best left at the gates of f.ds :P All in all, Yee's list does't appear "compelling" because it covers motives, not actual behaviour. Although motive A, B and C predict behaviour X, it is perfectly possible to exhibit X without any motivation (i. e amotivated). 

References:

King, D. & Delfabbro, P. (2009). Motivational Differences in Problem Video Game Play. Journal of Cyber Therapy & Rehabilitation, 2 (2), 139-149.

Ryan, R. M. & Deci, E. L. (2011) Self-Determination Theory and the Role of Basic Psychological Needs in Personality and the Organization of Behavior. In John, Robins & Pervin (Eds.), Handbook of Personality: Theory and Research (3. ed., pp. 654- 678). New York: Guilford Press.
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Donald X.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2016, 07:07:59 pm »
+1

1. "The Senior". First and foremost, Solitaire/Patience/Insert non immersive solo game, does not exist in a vacuum.
2. "The bragger". Given the opportunity to share his or her Patience experience, the player is also given the opportunity to
3. "The Prisoner". Strict imprisonment (no expert here, this is US' domain :P) offers the perfect counterargument to points 1.
I don't think these are it. The social interaction is teaching someone the game; that's it. People do not play Patience in order to brag about how good they are. And uh, The Prisoner, well I think there is actual motivation.

To me Patience is a "ritual game." For some activities, it can be fun just going through the motions. You also get to see what happens; I call this a "movie."

But the point of course was to show that Social/Immersive/Achievement was not sufficient to explain motivation in games; Patience is just an example.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2016, 07:18:42 pm »
0

Be it Hearthstone ladder heroes waiting out their top 10 spot on the legend ladder, or the countless number of people complaining about ladder anxiety in Starcraft.

For the anxiety part: there'll likely be an option to opt out of the leaderboard (neither you nor anyone else can see your rank) and have your rating only be used by the system for match making purposes. Things like achievements could then deliver a sense of accomplishment to those who don't like the ranking.

Besides, I think Dominion itself offers enough opportunities to get your accomplishment fix: winning a game in an unexpected way, building a marvelously roaring engine, finally pulling off that elusive combo, you name it. Personally, I loved the game long before I got anywhere close to the top or even felt like I was moving forwards, and I would not have gotten there had I not loved it so much.

The anti-anxiety option sounds promising, and ingame achievements are never a bad feature! :)

As for accomplishment; I very much aggree! Being a 5 month old Dominion orphan, I'm currently undergoing that very process myself :) Theoretically, I would argue the enjoyment stemming from these combos, roaring engines and what have you, as proxies for later comparative success - benchmarks of progression if you will. But that's semantic nitpicking, really. The feeling of "competence", experiencing personal efficacy in your activity, is the crux of the achievement motive cluster.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #176 on: June 24, 2016, 07:35:53 pm »
0

1. "The Senior". First and foremost, Solitaire/Patience/Insert non immersive solo game, does not exist in a vacuum.
2. "The bragger". Given the opportunity to share his or her Patience experience, the player is also given the opportunity to
3. "The Prisoner". Strict imprisonment (no expert here, this is US' domain :P) offers the perfect counterargument to points 1.
I don't think these are it. The social interaction is teaching someone the game; that's it. People do not play Patience in order to brag about how good they are. And uh, The Prisoner, well I think there is actual motivation.

To me Patience is a "ritual game." For some activities, it can be fun just going through the motions. You also get to see what happens; I call this a "movie."

But the point of course was to show that Social/Immersive/Achievement was not sufficient to explain motivation in games; Patience is just an example.


Motivational debates have been prevalent in the field of psychology throughout times, so your skepticism is in good fashion. I do, however, feel like I have a pretty strong case for games like Patience being predicted by a more pervasive social motivation. The discrepancy in our understandings, should stem from our fundamental differences in conceptualizing " gaming sociability". I cant count the number of times I've encountered some unlikely scenario whilst playing a solo game, immediately calling for my friends to come and partake in the extravagance. If you only include actual gameplay interaction when assessing social motives, then yes, Patience is completely asocial. If you consider its consequent widespread social implications however, it's easy to envision social motives preceding future gameplay.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #177 on: June 24, 2016, 08:30:44 pm »
+1

Donald, I seem to remember you talking about the definition of "game" at one point. Does Patience even qualify?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #178 on: June 24, 2016, 08:48:55 pm »
0

Motivational debates have been prevalent in the field of psychology throughout times, so your skepticism is in good fashion. I do, however, feel like I have a pretty strong case for games like Patience being predicted by a more pervasive social motivation. The discrepancy in our understandings, should stem from our fundamental differences in conceptualizing " gaming sociability". I cant count the number of times I've encountered some unlikely scenario whilst playing a solo game, immediately calling for my friends to come and partake in the extravagance. If you only include actual gameplay interaction when assessing social motives, then yes, Patience is completely asocial. If you consider its consequent widespread social implications however, it's easy to envision social motives preceding future gameplay.
I do not see any social motivation to Patience beyond the teaching of it. To me it's like you're saying, I eat chocolate for social reasons. We can try to push things into these categories - the chocolate keeps me alive so I can be social - but that doesn't make the categorization useful, doesn't mean it's anything but misleading.

It's fun thinking about these things, making these lists, trying to boil everything down to N things. It can be tricky working out how useful your categorization scheme is and well I do not agree with you about this stuff but time does not permit.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #179 on: June 24, 2016, 08:54:53 pm »
+2

Donald, I seem to remember you talking about the definition of "game" at one point. Does Patience even qualify?
Yes, it meets my technical definition (structured activity with 1+ players and a ranking mechanism).

Richard Garfield defined a subcategory of games, "orthogonal games," so that he could have a precise definition and make true statements about it, without having to deal with people having conflicting ideas as to what a "game" is. I don't remember his definition (it's in the luck speech, which I recommend if you haven't seen it), but you know, the point was to talk about These Games We Play rather than things falling under the dictionary definition of "game."
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #180 on: June 25, 2016, 06:05:31 am »
+1

You may argue that it falls within/between achievent and immersion, but one of the strongest pulls I feel towards gaming is experimenting. You give me a system, I'll try different stuff and see how the game reacts. Systems that still offer new discoveries keep my attention longer than systems where I feel I can predict too often how the game will play out.
Political games are good at that, and Dominion is in fact one of the few nonpolitical games that I truly love.
Despite liking some of them, I've never got grabbed by CCGs because experimenting is too slow/expensive, and I usually lose interest after a short while of always playing/optimizing the same deck because I can't afford a different one, and optimization doesn't really lead to exciting discoveries.

I'm the kind of person who in a pinch plays new games against themself, and well I don't see that explained by either achievement, immersion, or sociality. (and not rituality either)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 06:07:24 am by Accatitippi »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #181 on: June 28, 2016, 04:01:33 pm »
+1

I like to manufacture a contrived dictionary definition for "game" and find a way to exclude Concentration and Monopoly from that definition and then even go as far as to generate prejudices for those nongames that suggests the participants are nonhuman and propose a legally codified caste system that treats them as such.

BUT the important thing is that I am upfront and honest about that.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #182 on: June 28, 2016, 05:05:43 pm »
+1

It'd be cool to rank/rate* the cards from a kingdom after playing it, or maybe after looking over the logs or watching the replays or something. Then a big ranking/rating list of all the cards--or smaller lists, divided up however you may want to divide them--could be generated based on how good the cards were in actual kingdoms, not just in theory. (I say "kingdom" instead of "game" because if you replay a kingdom you shouldn't be able to rank the cards differently each time)

*it might be difficult/impossible to rank cards 1-10 if you have an engine with 3 vital components, but you could rate each of those 3 cards 5 stars or whatever
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #183 on: June 28, 2016, 05:25:09 pm »
+14

My number one wish for the new platform: (This is partly how Isotropic worked.)

When you have to trash or discard x cards from your hand, clicking a card selects it. If you're trashing, it gets a big X or something. If you're discarding, something else clearly distinguishable. If you try to select more than x cards, you get a message. You can deselect and select as much as you want. Then you have to click a button that says "TRASH" or "DISCARD".

If you have to select a certain number, it says so, and the button is grayed out until you have.

If trashing/discarding is optional, you also have a button saying "DON'T TRASH" or "DON'T DISCARD".

This works the same way even when you only have one card to trash/discard. Yes, it's one extra click, but I think that's totally worth not having to purposefully play slower and more carefully for fear of misclicking.

In addition to the misclicking issue, the other important thing this does is making the GUI work like the game actually works: You discard/trash all the cards at once.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2016, 05:41:55 pm »
0

I think what will happen will be like thus:

With Action cards that affect cards in your hand when played, it does not matter which individual one of them you trash; they are all the same card, really. With this in mind, having your hand convert into 'piles' of collections of cards that you can select en mass when trashing/affecting seems to be the best option.

When I want to target specific cards for Scheme/trashing (for example), at the end of the turn or during a turn (for trashing), it will show me each card played (for Scheme, trashing would simply show your hand or whatever is the appropriate target) and how many of them there are with a small number, similar to piles. When you select a card, it will move upwards to the top of the screen, away from the piles. If you clicked it again from the top, it would go back to where it was. The interface should also say how many Scheme/trashing choices you have left. After you're done selecting the options, you click on 'Trash' or 'Topdeck' or something of the sort. It is complicated to explain, but it is very intuitive. The only downside is that it is a bit slower, but it does prevent misclicks for sure.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 05:43:36 pm by Seprix »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2016, 05:44:10 pm »
0

It'd be cool to rank/rate* the cards from a kingdom after playing it, or maybe after looking over the logs or watching the replays or something. Then a big ranking/rating list of all the cards--or smaller lists, divided up however you may want to divide them--could be generated based on how good the cards were in actual kingdoms, not just in theory. (I say "kingdom" instead of "game" because if you replay a kingdom you shouldn't be able to rank the cards differently each time)

*it might be difficult/impossible to rank cards 1-10 if you have an engine with 3 vital components, but you could rate each of those 3 cards 5 stars or whatever
It'd be better to draw these conclusions by using a councilroom style log muncher that checks whether buying each card produces wins or produces losses.  The algorithm's inability to identify the difference between a Secret Chamber that was a crucial way of converting Scrying Pool into financial benefit and a Secret Chamber that was better than buying nothing with a 2$ hand is far outweighed by various human polling biases and smaller sample size
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2016, 05:45:29 pm »
+2

Actually, even better idea. Why have a bunch of annoying images fly around? I wouldn't mind simply having a more text based decision, much like Isotropic. It should display the name and cost of the cards as well as how many there are in your hand/in play/whatever, but you can see what the card is from the Kingdom pile, so it shouldn't really be much of an issue to just make showing the cards more condensed.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #187 on: June 29, 2016, 01:42:32 pm »
+2

Actually, even better idea. Why have a bunch of annoying images fly around? I wouldn't mind simply having a more text based decision, much like Isotropic. It should display the name and cost of the cards as well as how many there are in your hand/in play/whatever, but you can see what the card is from the Kingdom pile, so it shouldn't really be much of an issue to just make showing the cards more condensed.

I think it could be a great alternative setting. Each group of the same card should be a rectangle with the cost, name, and colors indicating type, plus the number of copies. For instance: "$0 Copper (4)", "$3 Silver (2)", "$5 Hunting Party (3)"... Then these rectangles could be stacked in columns. Several columns could fit on the screen. Hovering over a rectangle for a second could even show the full card.

Also, when the amount of different cards you have to choose from reaches a critical mass, the interface should just automatically switch to that view, instead of being this mass of cards to leaf through. This could be when you have a lot of cards on your hand, or a lot of cards in play for Scheme choosing.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #188 on: June 29, 2016, 10:34:28 pm »
+2

Actually, even better idea. Why have a bunch of annoying images fly around? I wouldn't mind simply having a more text based decision, much like Isotropic. It should display the name and cost of the cards as well as how many there are in your hand/in play/whatever, but you can see what the card is from the Kingdom pile, so it shouldn't really be much of an issue to just make showing the cards more condensed.

I thought they said they had something like this planned
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #189 on: June 29, 2016, 10:36:37 pm »
0

Fantastic! I spent a long time thinking about the best possible way to do the interface.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #190 on: July 03, 2016, 01:50:57 pm »
0

Very important feature for next version :
Close account without way to be refund of money of player who insult opponent as you can see in this thread http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10909-I-don-t-want-to-be-insulted-during-a-game&p=59176#post59176
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #191 on: July 03, 2016, 01:53:27 pm »
0

Very important feature for next version :
Close account without way to be refund of money of player who insult opponent as you can see in this thread http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10909-I-don-t-want-to-be-insulted-during-a-game&p=59176#post59176

Evil should not be repaid with evil.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #192 on: July 03, 2016, 03:35:36 pm »
+10

Very important feature for next version :
Close account without way to be refund of money of player who insult opponent as you can see in this thread http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10909-I-don-t-want-to-be-insulted-during-a-game&p=59176#post59176

You'll be able to report stuff like this in-game and then we'll issue a warning and/or temporary or permanent chat ban (depending on the severity and persistence of the behavior). You'll also be able to blacklist him so that you never get to play him again.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #193 on: July 03, 2016, 04:35:54 pm »
+3

Very important feature for next version :
Close account without way to be refund of money of player who insult opponent as you can see in this thread http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10909-I-don-t-want-to-be-insulted-during-a-game&p=59176#post59176

Evil should not be repaid with evil.
I don't think reasonable punishments are evil but banning Someone forever is not a great punishment for chat abuse.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #194 on: July 04, 2016, 05:14:06 pm »
0

Fantastic! I spent a long time thinking about the best possible way to do the interface.

I actually quite like the MF interface. Not too much crap, but also not too little.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #195 on: July 05, 2016, 09:56:17 am »
0

Fantastic! I spent a long time thinking about the best possible way to do the interface.

I actually quite like the MF interface. Not too much crap, but also not too little.

it's mainly visual stuff i (and seemingly others) have a problem with.  events not being distinct enough from cards, the animations, the new garish blue circles around the numbers...

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #196 on: July 05, 2016, 10:02:42 am »
+2

Fantastic! I spent a long time thinking about the best possible way to do the interface.

I actually quite like the MF interface. Not too much crap, but also not too little.

it's mainly visual stuff i (and seemingly others) have a problem with.  events not being distinct enough from cards, the animations, the new garish blue circles around the numbers...

That's interesting, out of everything the MF client does/has, I find the Event display to be perfectly fine. They're visually distinct enough for me.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #197 on: July 06, 2016, 02:47:53 am »
0

Fantastic! I spent a long time thinking about the best possible way to do the interface.

I actually quite like the MF interface. Not too much crap, but also not too little.

it's mainly visual stuff i (and seemingly others) have a problem with.  events not being distinct enough from cards, the animations, the new garish blue circles around the numbers...

That's interesting, out of everything the MF client does/has, I find the Event display to be perfectly fine. They're visually distinct enough for me.

I was about to say the same thing. I actually like the way the Events are, and it's easy to find them and remember they are. IRL, playing with Events can be challenging because depending on where you place them, it can be easy to forget where they are.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #198 on: July 06, 2016, 10:27:11 am »
0

I am pretty sure I have animations turned off or something
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #199 on: July 08, 2016, 05:21:22 pm »
+2

Just going to add a random thought to the pile.  Remember how Goko Salvager had a kingdom builder that supported a standard syntax so you could specify parameters, including controlling the likelihood of a card or cards being included in the kingdom?  Having something like that would be great.  Maybe something simple like, you have a general setting interface for all cards, where you can specify "more often" or "less often" for a given card, with "neutral" being the default.  Then, if all players "agree" on a card (i.e., have the same setting selected), then the parameter could be applied to the kingdom selection for that game.  I mean, I for one would love to be able to force Possession, Swindler, Governor, Rebuild, Cultist, etc. to appear in kingdoms less often if I'm matched up against a like-minded person.  Or vice-versa for cards that I find more fun/interesting.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #200 on: August 15, 2016, 03:34:25 am »
+1

I don't know if these qualify as features requests or just design suggestions, but here they are for your reading pleasure:

  • Clickable options for everything. I use a trackpad but suck at dragging things and not letting go of them mid-drag. (Watchtower makes me unreasonably annoyed, but MMF makes me think you're already working on this one, yay.)
  • No "pointless" decisions. (e.g. Which Silver to trash to a Knight or what order to put back my Estates for Oracle.)
  • (I'm a Mac person, so I'm not sure what the Windows equivalents of these would be) Bounce the app in the dock / badge the app icon when you're challenged.
  • Ability to choose who goes first when challenging a specific player.
  • Unless you're rethinking how your hand is displayed, it'd be nice to have the cards peek out as you rolled over them. Just enough to see the name for any time you're selecting something.
  • I'd like to see my opponents' inventories (e.g. coin tokens) without having to click on each person. And I can't leave their trays open because it hides other info I need. Basically, no trays please.
  • Fairly certain it's been mentioned here, but seeing my and my opponent's stats in-game.
  • Game history, for my League matches when forget how many I've played and who went first.
  • This may be too complicated, but know when the order I resolve things matters and don't make me pick an order when it doesn't. (I can dream, right?)

Thanks for all your hard work, and I'm looking forward to seeing the new release!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #201 on: August 17, 2016, 12:07:31 pm »
0

I agree with crlundy. No pointless decisions. If multiple cards need to be decided for trashing or putting back on your deck or whatever, and the cards are the same, skip the decision. It's not important which copper I put back on my deck first.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #202 on: August 17, 2016, 12:08:56 pm »
0

I agree with crlundy. No pointless decisions. If multiple cards need to be decided for trashing or putting back on your deck or whatever, and the cards are the same, skip the decision. It's not important which copper I put back on my deck first.

Cards should be Bosons, not Fermions!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #203 on: August 17, 2016, 12:55:34 pm »
0

As the client approaches a stable-ish alpha, then beta testing, etc, how much information will be shared about it in advance and outside of testers? Does the contract or best development practices suggest you should keep new dominion information close to the chest? Or will we get to drool over screenshots of the new interface very soon?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #204 on: August 17, 2016, 12:58:26 pm »
0

Where can I sign up for the Alpha testing? Maybe it's all random, but if there's a list, I'd like to sign up  ;D
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #205 on: August 17, 2016, 02:00:01 pm »
+13

As the client approaches a stable-ish alpha, then beta testing, etc, how much information will be shared about it in advance and outside of testers? Does the contract or best development practices suggest you should keep new dominion information close to the chest? Or will we get to drool over screenshots of the new interface very soon?

Where can I sign up for the Alpha testing? Maybe it's all random, but if there's a list, I'd like to sign up  ;D

We're resuming testing with the original testers soon. Our forum will be launched around the same time, which will contain some information for non-testers about possibly becoming a tester at a later stage.

Don't expect to be drooling over screenshots soon, but we'll give you an impression of our work before the launch.

Quote
Does the contract or best development practices suggest you should keep new dominion information close to the chest?

I'm always happy to share new Dominion information: it's unwise to buy so many Golds and Silvers.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #206 on: August 17, 2016, 02:01:33 pm »
+1

As the client approaches a stable-ish alpha, then beta testing, etc, how much information will be shared about it in advance and outside of testers? Does the contract or best development practices suggest you should keep new dominion information close to the chest? Or will we get to drool over screenshots of the new interface very soon?

Where can I sign up for the Alpha testing? Maybe it's all random, but if there's a list, I'd like to sign up  ;D

We're resuming testing with the original testers soon. Our forum will be launched around the same time, which will contain some information for non-testers about possibly becoming a tester at a later stage.

Don't expect to be drooling over screenshots soon, but we'll give you an impression of our work before the launch.

Quote
Does the contract or best development practices suggest you should keep new dominion information close to the chest?

I'm always happy to share new Dominion information: it's unwise to buy so many Golds and Silvers.

But Magpie likes them...
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #207 on: August 18, 2016, 06:06:03 am »
0

I realise that the thing I deplore the most is the pairing system MF introduced.

I would be so pleased if there were an option to choose if you want to play a fast game or a measured one. While I do not love it, if players take excessive amounts of time for their turns, I can arrange myself with that, and I certainly prefer it to players quitting or nagging.

This has gone as far as that I currently only play friends or bots.

P.S. Maybe it will sort itself out on its own on your system. The Goko solution with rooms and the ability to accept or reject a player also worked much better. Greetings.

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #208 on: August 18, 2016, 09:09:40 am »
+3

I'm always happy to share new Dominion information: it's unwise to buy so many Golds and Silvers.

Perhaps you misunderstood, I was asking for new Dominion information.  ;)
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #209 on: August 18, 2016, 12:19:26 pm »
+2

I'm always happy to share new Dominion information: it's unwise to buy so many Golds and Silvers.

Perhaps you misunderstood, I was asking for new Dominion information.  ;)
Delve and Wedding let you get Golds and Silvers easier.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #210 on: September 13, 2016, 11:24:18 pm »
+3

I don't know if this has been suggested already but I would like to see an alternate mode that, like a victory point counter, adds more information.

Specifically I'd like it to display the contents of each player's deck similar to how isotropic+extensions was in its last days
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #211 on: September 14, 2016, 12:30:30 am »
+1

I don't know if this has been suggested already but I would like to see an alternate mode that, like a victory point counter, adds more information.

Specifically I'd like it to display the contents of each player's deck similar to how isotropic+extensions was in its last days

I would very much like this not to be an option KTHXBAI.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #212 on: September 14, 2016, 12:30:54 am »
0

I don't know if this has been suggested already but I would like to see an alternate mode that, like a victory point counter, adds more information.

Specifically I'd like it to display the contents of each player's deck similar to how isotropic+extensions was in its last days

I would very much like this not to be an option KTHXBAI.
Why not??????
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #213 on: September 14, 2016, 01:04:02 am »
+1

I don't know if this has been suggested already but I would like to see an alternate mode that, like a victory point counter, adds more information.

Specifically I'd like it to display the contents of each player's deck similar to how isotropic+extensions was in its last days

I would very much like this not to be an option KTHXBAI.
Why not??????

Man, you can find any number of threads about this argument.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #214 on: September 14, 2016, 04:13:06 am »
0

Well, it is possible to deck track without a tracker. Just write on paper as you play along. The thing is even if you don't do it, there is nothing stopping another player from doing so. With that said, I think Donald X. has said he is opposed to a tracker. I think though for tournament play it might be a good idea to have one to prevent cheating
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #215 on: September 14, 2016, 07:40:15 am »
0

Well, it is possible to deck track without a tracker. Just write on paper as you play along. The thing is even if you don't do it, there is nothing stopping another player from doing so. With that said, I think Donald X. has said he is opposed to a tracker. I think though for tournament play it might be a good idea to have one to prevent cheating
I think if Dominion ever blew up Hearthstone-style you'd have to allow the existence of such things because there's no way of preventing it otherwise.

But as it stands currently with the community still relatively small, I think it's pretty much fine to just say "we don't want people doing this"; maybe I have too much faith in people, but I don't think anyone participating in an f.ds-run tournament (at least) would be tracking with pen and paper if we decide that it's not allowed.  (Which we have essentially done.)
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #216 on: September 14, 2016, 08:06:12 am »
0

I don't know if this has been suggested already but I would like to see an alternate mode that, like a victory point counter, adds more information.

Specifically I'd like it to display the contents of each player's deck similar to how isotropic+extensions was in its last days

I would very much like this not to be an option KTHXBAI.

I'd like it to exist for unrated / custom games only, kind of like games with no limits to Events / Landmarks, games with customized kingdoms, forced starting hands, or predetermined starts, or other rules variations.

Well, it is possible to deck track without a tracker. Just write on paper as you play along. The thing is even if you don't do it, there is nothing stopping another player from doing so. With that said, I think Donald X. has said he is opposed to a tracker. I think though for tournament play it might be a good idea to have one to prevent cheating
I think if Dominion ever blew up Hearthstone-style you'd have to allow the existence of such things because there's no way of preventing it otherwise.

But as it stands currently with the community still relatively small, I think it's pretty much fine to just say "we don't want people doing this"; maybe I have too much faith in people, but I don't think anyone participating in an f.ds-run tournament (at least) would be tracking with pen and paper if we decide that it's not allowed.  (Which we have essentially done.)

I've used a pen and paper in one situation - to track Hermit / Madman / Market Square counts in those games, since those are basically eight turn games where you're just repeating an algorithm of steps and everything's really specific to those numbers. It's probably logically inconsistent with not using tracking for anything else, but fuck that combo otherwise, you know?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:08:36 am by Chris is me »
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #217 on: September 15, 2016, 11:21:36 pm »
+3

Automated tracking is like a VP counter. If you don't like it, select the seek option to not play with it.

For me it just saves time and boring mental effort.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #218 on: September 16, 2016, 01:00:49 am »
0

Automated tracking is like a VP counter. If you don't like it, select the seek option to not play with it.

So it will fracture the player base. Sounds like a good argument not to have it.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #219 on: September 16, 2016, 04:11:47 am »
+3

Right.. because communities are so much better off when people have fewer choices ::)
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #220 on: September 16, 2016, 07:49:05 am »
0

Automated tracking is like a VP counter. If you don't like it, select the seek option to not play with it.

So it will fracture the player base. Sounds like a good argument not to have it.

No reason the feature can't at the very least be implemented for unrated games.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #221 on: September 16, 2016, 08:25:56 am »
+2

Automated tracking is like a VP counter. If you don't like it, select the seek option to not play with it.

So it will fracture the player base. Sounds like a good argument not to have it.

Sounds like a good argument to not have the option to play without it to me!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #222 on: September 21, 2016, 05:58:20 pm »
0

Well, it is possible to deck track without a tracker. Just write on paper as you play along. The thing is even if you don't do it, there is nothing stopping another player from doing so. With that said, I think Donald X. has said he is opposed to a tracker. I think though for tournament play it might be a good idea to have one to prevent cheating
I think if Dominion ever blew up Hearthstone-style you'd have to allow the existence of such things because there's no way of preventing it otherwise.

But as it stands currently with the community still relatively small, I think it's pretty much fine to just say "we don't want people doing this"; maybe I have too much faith in people, but I don't think anyone participating in an f.ds-run tournament (at least) would be tracking with pen and paper if we decide that it's not allowed.  (Which we have essentially done.)

Sometimes I accidentally let my love of the deckbuilding genre and its flagship get me all rosy eyed and optimistic and hopeful that something that seems to have so much merit in and of itself should surely become big and wonderful someday.  Then every once and a while I get these helpful friendly reminders that not only is it small now, no-one wants to think of it existing in any other state, which is one of the most extravagant ways of helping to guarantee it never reaches any other state.

Guilty Gear is so fun and beautiful I have lot of issues there too, but whenever I let my feelings get away with me the playerbase is always extremely helpful and willing to put me down about the subgenre ever getting traction.

I'll probably go browse mtgsalvation now, until I go home from work and skip Guilty Gear meetup to play League of Legends, which implemented protections against some methods of client-side unfair advantage when it was an indie beta with the playerbase of a couple hundred. Huzzahs!
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #223 on: September 27, 2016, 11:59:27 pm »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #224 on: September 28, 2016, 07:05:09 am »
+8

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #225 on: September 28, 2016, 07:28:38 am »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
I, for one, would love to have them available, but in a separate set. They shouldn't be a part of Base or Intrigue.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #226 on: September 28, 2016, 09:11:48 am »
+1

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #227 on: September 28, 2016, 09:20:43 am »
+5

Removing Coppersmith isn't about making high level competitive 1v1 Dominion more interesting; it's about making Dominion a better board game for 2-4 casual players. It's a huge trap card that tons of inexperienced players buy into and regret. The first two sets should especially avoid those.
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Accatitippi

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #228 on: September 28, 2016, 09:45:09 am »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.

I'm not sure that's the kind of weak cards that got removed.
A hard to build engine is made of hard to fit toghether, nonoptimal elements.
The cards that got taken out were not suboptimal elements, they way too often would not be an element at all. (exception: Woodcutter, and maybe Coppersmith)
Scarcity of viable engine ingredients doesn't mean more interesting engines to build, it just means that you end up playing boring strategies like BM-terminal draw more often.

I might be more susceptible to this matter than most due to still playing a good deal of base-heavy games IRL.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #229 on: September 28, 2016, 02:20:14 pm »
+2

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

Now that the base set and Intrigue have had their cards changed, will the removed cards be available on the new client? I would like to be able to play with them still, but I understand that they were removed for a reason. Maybe if they're only available in custom games?

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

It's very much like adding a Copper to your deck. Yes being able to spend $1 more now is nice, but are you still happy when you realize that drawing that Copper prevented you from drawing your Laboratory?
Sometimes it's nice to have a crazy kingdom. Sometimes it's nice to have a hard to build engine. Weak cards have made the second category happen a lot more. Also what's the hate about coppersmith It's more balanced than swindler.
You can just include an option to only have 9 or 8 cards in the kingdom for this.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #230 on: September 28, 2016, 03:30:41 pm »
+6

irl, I removed all these cards over a year ago, plus a few others. Coppersmith, Scout and friends are not good cards to show beginners. They are just outright boring cards that suck. I used to teach just using Base Dominion cards but stopped because of how weak many of the base cards were. Now, with the new additions, I might start using Base Dominion to teach new people.

Anyway, I don't miss these cards irl. Online, I see these 12 cards pop up all the time, and honestly, I can't wait to never have to see them again.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #231 on: September 29, 2016, 02:13:38 am »
+2

We won't have them at launch. If people continue to ask for them we might add them later but honestly I don't see the point. Those cards were removed with good reasons.

One reason to have them is so you can set up specific boards you have played IRL and try out different things on them afterwards. Surely some players who own the old sets will just continue to use them IRL.
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Jeebus

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #232 on: September 29, 2016, 11:26:51 am »
+2

I would like to somehow have the option to include them in full random. I agree that they should not be part of the free base game package, or the Intrigue package. I don't know the new payment model. Are all expansions going to have a one-time cost? Maybe give some cost to these 12 cards to, like a mini-expansion.

The reason for removing these 12 cards was surely to make the two first sets better, especially for new players. (One aspect of this is that in the base game, 5 terminals and 1 non-terminal were replaced by 3 terminals and 4 non-terminals.) The reason for removing them was surely not to make playing random with all sets better. At best that had to have been an afterthought.

I would categorise them in four tiers:

D) The only cards that are almost useless and can be beneficially retired are Thief (is "fixed" in Noble Brigand and now Bandit too), Adventurer and Scout. (I have never once bought an Adventurer. Even when I was learning Dominion and knew almost nothing, I saw that Gold is always better.)

C) Cards that are almost as useless, but I don't think it hurts to keep them, are Chancellor , Spy and Secret Chamber. They have their uses a bit more often, but they could be retired too. At least Storeroom does Secret Chamber's trick.

B) Cards that perform a function that it would be a bit sad to lose, although they rarely matter, are Coppersmith and Saboteur. The thing is that no other card does what they do (including the new cards), and figuring out when to go for them is a cool possibiltiy to keep. As long as they are not in the first two sets that players buy, I don't see the problem.

A) The cards I'd hate to see go are Feast, Woodcutter, Great Hall and Tribute. Feast and Tribute are useful quite often, and also each do something no other cards do, especially Feast. Woodcutter being the only source of +buy has real impact on the game, since it's cheap but weak and terminal. That happens quite often. Great Hall has an impact on many games. Often you want cheap cantrips, and even more so if it gives VP, and quite often the types matter too. The sole fact that they don't clog your deck means that they are a pile that often gets emptied and that changes the game too. (Interestingly, Mill is priced as if using Great Hall as a baseline.) Ok, Tribute and Feast Great Hall have "fixed" versions, although Courtier can never be a Village (big difference), and Mill costs more (smaller difference but not insignificant). In the end Feast is the #1 card to keep for me.

EDIT: fixed wrong card name
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 12:03:10 pm by Jeebus »
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #233 on: September 29, 2016, 02:20:27 pm »
+2

The rules variants in the Campaigns on MF are really cool. Is there any chance for custom, unrated games, we would be able to fuck with the rules as well? It could be auto-playing a certain card each turn or an event at the game beginning. Other rule changes could be Kingdom / pile size, starting hand size, starting deck contents, etc.

By no means are these essential features but it would be fun to play with.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #234 on: September 29, 2016, 02:41:33 pm »
+12

For those that want the removed cards, I think everyone should play for a month on the new implementation and see if after one-month they actually miss those cards.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #235 on: September 29, 2016, 03:15:52 pm »
+4

And while I'm not opposed to having them available for people to fool around with, I'd prefer there was no way to include them in full random, pro games.
Having to endure Transmute Cultist and Harvest is bad enough, no need to not make use of a solution when one is available.

Incidentally, I loved great hall, but it really still lives on in the form of Mill, having received only the least significant of cost increases.
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RevanFan

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #236 on: September 29, 2016, 03:32:08 pm »
+2

I don't think they should be available in ranked games or in default full random situations, but they should be able to be turned on for casual games. Sort of like how you can turn shelters or platinum/colony to always on, even if it doesn't meet the rulebook specification. And there could be a feature that would only match you up in casual games with people who also allow the removed cards.
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arcee

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #237 on: October 10, 2016, 05:35:20 pm »
0

FR: A way to follow this ruling...

So to confirm, this also gives us another ruling, that "anywhere in your deck" includes "generally somewhere in the middle", and doesn't have to be an exact number of cards from the top that you decide on.
If what you're asking is, can you choose to not know where exactly you're putting the card, then yes.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #238 on: October 11, 2016, 10:27:18 am »
0

FR: A way to follow this ruling...

So to confirm, this also gives us another ruling, that "anywhere in your deck" includes "generally somewhere in the middle", and doesn't have to be an exact number of cards from the top that you decide on.
If what you're asking is, can you choose to not know where exactly you're putting the card, then yes.

There should totally be a Random Place button, but 95% of the time you want it either on top, on bottom, or out of reach for this turn but in your next hand. Once you get over the AP it's really quite powerful.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #239 on: October 12, 2016, 10:31:44 am »
0

I think the common places to put cards with Secret Passage will be 1, 2, 6, bottom, somewhere else specific. Seems like those options would be the most useful.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2016, 10:34:54 am »
0

1, 2, 6, bottom, somewhere else specific.

Isn't that, just, the deck?
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Mr Anderson

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2016, 11:08:30 am »
0

All jokes aside, those options (first, second, sixth, bottom) as buttons would be strongly appreciated.
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #242 on: October 24, 2016, 04:15:33 pm »
0

Easily prepaying for large amounts of time is a feature I consider valuable.  I will likely spend more if that is made convenient.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #243 on: October 24, 2016, 04:56:43 pm »
+1

All jokes aside, those options (first, second, sixth, bottom) as buttons would be strongly appreciated.

Expanding on this, I think if you just had the existing interface but numbered the cards it would work pretty well. Counting sucks.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #244 on: October 24, 2016, 05:10:15 pm »
+2

Easily prepaying for large amounts of time is a feature I consider valuable.  I will likely spend more if that is made convenient.

As long as there's easy paying for large amounts of coin tokens, I'll be happy.
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2016, 11:28:01 am »
0

If I buy lots of fake currency, then use the fake currency to actually get subscription months, that's not easy anymore and is not what I was talking about.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2016, 03:29:43 pm »
+2

I was making a joke about Baker coin tokens. But not a joke -- that definitely needs to be a feature.
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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #247 on: November 10, 2016, 05:32:37 am »
+18

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.
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Seprix

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #248 on: November 10, 2016, 10:01:40 am »
+1

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
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Calamitas

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #249 on: November 10, 2016, 11:04:44 am »
0

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
Well, sometimes someone has a tight advantage in such scenarios. Enforcing the tie wouldn't be fair then.
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faust

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #250 on: November 10, 2016, 11:54:04 am »
+9

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
I think writing a program that recognizes such situations is several orders of magnitude harder than adding a button.
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #251 on: November 10, 2016, 03:24:05 pm »
+1

I've never seen a starved to death game in all of my thousands of games of dominion. The only appropriate software behavior for online dominion is for the server to turn on scsn's stream channel so that we can watch the game.

Donald has said it's not a draw.  The game keeps going.

The software should message users to give them a link to the stream and encourage everyone to watch.  Also we should get a reconstruction of how the game reached that state so that we can look for the probable misplay.
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JW

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #252 on: November 10, 2016, 03:39:12 pm »
0

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I was inspired to suggest this in this thread a few months ago due to Possession stalemates.

It would be great to have a way to offer a draw (as if the game was tied).

Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.
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Chris is me

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #253 on: November 10, 2016, 04:14:14 pm »
+3


Donald has said it's not a draw.  The game keeps going.


Isn't a "propose draw" button just simultaneous resignation? You're allowed to quit whenever you want; it's just asking "should we quit together"
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popsofctown

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #254 on: November 10, 2016, 08:45:08 pm »
+3

No.  Players can't resign either.  There is no game action made available to the players in the base rulebook that says a player can cause themselves to lose.  Isotropic and goko had bugs where you could press a button to cause yourself to lose, even though they were supposed to implement dominion.
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Limetime

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #255 on: November 10, 2016, 08:51:57 pm »
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Just cause they aren't in the rulebook doesn't make them a good feature. Also this is clearly intended by the programmers of the client so it isn't a bug it's a feature.
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SettingFraming

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Re: "Features" threads
« Reply #256 on: November 10, 2016, 11:31:03 pm »
+2

I had a new idea for a feature request (at least one I don't remember reading about):

You know this very small share of stalemate games, where "everyone starves to death"?

It would be nice to have something like a Propose Draw button, and if both players accept, the game will automatically end in a draw.

I think in those small cases, it should end in a tie automatically, but that is my personal opinion.
I think writing a program that recognizes such situations is several orders of magnitude harder than adding a button.

Not only is it several orders of magnitude harder, it's proven to be theoretically impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

Of course you could hard-code an approximate list of game states known/believed to result in draws, but that's not really solving the problem as well as button-adding does either.
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