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Author Topic: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact  (Read 1526 times)

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Gubump

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Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« on: April 23, 2016, 02:10:18 pm »
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Newest Version:
Artifact:
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is the first time you've played an Artifact this turn, you may remove one of your tokens from the Artifact pile and replace it with one of your following tokens: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; or +$1.

Setup: Move your +1 Buy token to the Artifact pile.
Cost: $5
Action

Version 2:
Artifact:
+1 Card
+1 Action
Play the Ruins on your Artifact mat in any order (they stay on the Artifact mat).

When you buy this, gain a Ruins. If it is a copy of a Ruins on your Artifact mat, trash it. Otherwise, put it on your Artifact mat.
Cost: $6
Action - Looter


Version 1:
Artifact:
+1 Card
+1 Action

When you buy this, each player (including you) moves one of his following tokens to the Artifact mat that no player has a copy of on the Artifact mat: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; or +$1. Then each player moves their token to the Artifact pile.
Cost: $5
Action

Clarification: If one person chose +1 Card, nobody else may choose +1 Card, and if one person chose +1 Card and another chose +$1, nobody else may choose +1 Card or +$1, etc.
Clarification 2: Choices are made in turn order, starting with the player who bought Artifact.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 06:44:30 pm by Gubump »
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Marcory

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2016, 03:02:37 pm »
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This pretty much neuters Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training, Teacher, etc. Why would i invest so much in those cards if someone else can simply move my token to the Artifact mat whenever they feel like it?

Also, the token bonuses on this are pretty weak. It can be Lab (a $5 card), but more often it's going to be Peddler ($4), Village ($3), or Market Square without the Reaction (less than $3). I can't see spending $5 on this. It's often going to be weaker than Tribute, which is already a pretty weak $5. OK, the part where you can buy this to turn your opponent's Artifact-Labs into Artifact-Market Squares is moderately interesting, but doesn't seem all that strong.

Maybe you could make this a Reserve, where you can call it at the start of your turn to put a token on the pile, removing it at the end of your turn. That would be a little more interesting, and the Reserve part would counter the fact that it's choices make it slightly stronger than Lab.
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Gubump

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2016, 03:52:55 pm »
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This pretty much neuters Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training, Teacher, etc. Why would i invest so much in those cards if someone else can simply move my token to the Artifact mat whenever they feel like it?

Also, the token bonuses on this are pretty weak. It can be Lab (a $5 card), but more often it's going to be Peddler ($4), Village ($3), or Market Square without the Reaction (less than $3). I can't see spending $5 on this. It's often going to be weaker than Tribute, which is already a pretty weak $5. OK, the part where you can buy this to turn your opponent's Artifact-Labs into Artifact-Market Squares is moderately interesting, but doesn't seem all that strong.

Maybe you could make this a Reserve, where you can call it at the start of your turn to put a token on the pile, removing it at the end of your turn. That would be a little more interesting, and the Reserve part would counter the fact that it's choices make it slightly stronger than Lab.

You realize that your opponents get to choose which one of their tokens is moved, right? Also, when you buy it a second time, it could become a Lab + $1, and the third time, a Market + 1 Card, etc.
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Seprix

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 04:22:23 pm »
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old version: So Artifact is basically Tournament for coin tokens. Sometimes, it's pretty weak, where you'll probably invest in +Card first, then +Buy/+Coin, then finally +Action. It's not a bad card then, but it still is cheaper than any of the Events, even if you cannot use them all. Is anyone going to spend +buy on this card? Not unless there's no +buy on the board, and there's an engine. Other times, all you need is a 5/2 on an engine board with no village, and suddenly you're going to destroy your opponent before he even has a chance to buy a card.

I like the concept in theory, but it also wrecks coin token events in a sense. There's the possibility of going for Coin Tokens that aren't able to be bought, then moving the +Action via Lost Arts to get something going as well.

I feel like this card is a little too strong for $5 at worst, but it's also weak when it's no good. I don't think I would like this card much in it's current state. What if your opponent hits $5 twice on turns 3 and 4, while you somehow miss $5? I know that's devastating in general, but it kind of extra sucks in this case. I repeat that this feels like Tournament for coin tokens.

(edit) new version: This version is worse. It's weaker, and it's completely dependent on random shuffle luck. Want that +Action Ruin? Too bad, little Johnny got the only one! Now it kind of feels like Tournament and Swindler at the same time.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 04:26:53 pm by Seprix »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 04:27:11 pm »
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Solution: Make the card cheaper, whereby *if* you use the coin token thingy, you return it to the supply. If you don't, it's a cantrip. (So first you buyt it for the coin token thingy, return it to supply and then you buy it to make use of the coin tokens on it.)
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Seprix

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 04:30:30 pm »
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Solution: Make the card cheaper, whereby *if* you use the coin token thingy, you return it to the supply. If you don't, it's a cantrip. (So first you buyt it for the coin token thingy, return it to supply and then you buy it to make use of the coin tokens on it.)

No, I think this card's strength would be better realized if you could only put one Token on the card, no limits which one. That would feel a lot more fair. No draw on the board, okay, let's get draw. It also could change which Token is on it each time you buy it. (it could be gain, but what about midturns and such? I suppose it could be once a turn, but buy phase clears everything up anyways.)

Gubump

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2016, 06:41:10 pm »
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Solution: Make the card cheaper, whereby *if* you use the coin token thingy, you return it to the supply. If you don't, it's a cantrip. (So first you buyt it for the coin token thingy, return it to supply and then you buy it to make use of the coin tokens on it.)

No, I think this card's strength would be better realized if you could only put one Token on the card, no limits which one. That would feel a lot more fair. No draw on the board, okay, let's get draw. It also could change which Token is on it each time you buy it. (it could be gain, but what about midturns and such? I suppose it could be once a turn, but buy phase clears everything up anyways.)

I thought about that, but I was afraid that it would just be a Lab by a different name. I guess I'll try that out, though.
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Nflickner

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2016, 07:52:40 pm »
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Solution: Make the card cheaper, whereby *if* you use the coin token thingy, you return it to the supply. If you don't, it's a cantrip. (So first you buyt it for the coin token thingy, return it to supply and then you buy it to make use of the coin tokens on it.)

No, I think this card's strength would be better realized if you could only put one Token on the card, no limits which one. That would feel a lot more fair. No draw on the board, okay, let's get draw. It also could change which Token is on it each time you buy it. (it could be gain, but what about midturns and such? I suppose it could be once a turn, but buy phase clears everything up anyways.)

I thought about that, but I was afraid that it would just be a Lab by a different name. I guess I'll try that out, though.

I think it will become a Lab by a different name, as that is the most powerful combo.  Here is a card designed by Ehalcyon that you may find interesting for inspiration.  It was the winner of the Adventures design fan card contest:

Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.
At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2016, 12:39:48 am »
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Artifact- $6 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1

Is this sort of what you're looking for?
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Gubump

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2016, 01:14:30 am »
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Artifact- $6 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1

Is this sort of what you're looking for?

Not quite. With my current version of Artifact, you only get to change the third bonus when you buy a new one, not every time it's played.
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Marcory

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 01:39:49 am »
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This pretty much neuters Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training, Teacher, etc. Why would i invest so much in those cards if someone else can simply move my token to the Artifact mat whenever they feel like it?

Also, the token bonuses on this are pretty weak. It can be Lab (a $5 card), but more often it's going to be Peddler ($4), Village ($3), or Market Square without the Reaction (less than $3). I can't see spending $5 on this. It's often going to be weaker than Tribute, which is already a pretty weak $5. OK, the part where you can buy this to turn your opponent's Artifact-Labs into Artifact-Market Squares is moderately interesting, but doesn't seem all that strong.

Maybe you could make this a Reserve, where you can call it at the start of your turn to put a token on the pile, removing it at the end of your turn. That would be a little more interesting, and the Reserve part would counter the fact that it's choices make it slightly stronger than Lab.

You realize that your opponents get to choose which one of their tokens is moved, right? Also, when you buy it a second time, it could become a Lab + $1, and the third time, a Market + 1 Card, etc.

If I understand it right, if you chose +$1 the first time, and your opponent chose +1 Card, then he's got cards in his hand/deck that he's planning to use as Labs. If you then buy a new copy of Original Artifact, the slate is wiped clean, so you can now choose +1 Card, which (in a multiplayer game or if he's used Events/Teacher to move other tokens) could very well reduce him to the +1 Buy option.
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Gubump

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Re: Need Help With a Mechanic: Artifact
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2016, 08:53:12 am »
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This pretty much neuters Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training, Teacher, etc. Why would i invest so much in those cards if someone else can simply move my token to the Artifact mat whenever they feel like it?

Also, the token bonuses on this are pretty weak. It can be Lab (a $5 card), but more often it's going to be Peddler ($4), Village ($3), or Market Square without the Reaction (less than $3). I can't see spending $5 on this. It's often going to be weaker than Tribute, which is already a pretty weak $5. OK, the part where you can buy this to turn your opponent's Artifact-Labs into Artifact-Market Squares is moderately interesting, but doesn't seem all that strong.

Maybe you could make this a Reserve, where you can call it at the start of your turn to put a token on the pile, removing it at the end of your turn. That would be a little more interesting, and the Reserve part would counter the fact that it's choices make it slightly stronger than Lab.

You realize that your opponents get to choose which one of their tokens is moved, right? Also, when you buy it a second time, it could become a Lab + $1, and the third time, a Market + 1 Card, etc.

If I understand it right, if you chose +$1 the first time, and your opponent chose +1 Card, then he's got cards in his hand/deck that he's planning to use as Labs. If you then buy a new copy of Original Artifact, the slate is wiped clean, so you can now choose +1 Card, which (in a multiplayer game or if he's used Events/Teacher to move other tokens) could very well reduce him to the +1 Buy option.

This is correct.
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