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[XD9]

Hello,

I consider myself a novice to intermediate at most at Dominion strategy so go easy on me.  My ISO rating is 13.  Was wondering everyone's thoughts on when is it a good idea to NOT go for familiar, witch, or sea hag.  Probably not a black and white answer, but hoping for some feedback.  For example, if there is any trashing at all do you just ignore them go that route, loading deck w/ better cards knowing you'll be able to trash the curses that come your way and pull out a head.  Probably depends on the strength of the rest of the cards but curious on your thoughts. 

On a side note, I really hate familiar because every time it comes up I feel compelled to go after it at the expense of what I hope would be a better strategy.  The reason I feel compelled to go after familiar every time is because almost every time I try not to I get wiped out.

[Awaclus]

You can pretty much ignore Sea Hag every time there's decent trashing. Ignoring Familiar depends on the trashing, but it also depends on what other stuff you would want to be doing instead, because buying the Potion makes it a lot harder to get that other stuff done, however, Familiar is still less ignorable than Sea Hag. You should almost never ignore Witch, but don't go for it in the particular situation when your opponent is thin enough that he can trash any Curses as and when you're giving them, and by "situation", I mean the exact moment in the game; you shouldn't try to predict on turn 1 based on the kingdom cards whether or not that will be the case eventually, just don't buy Witch right now if that is the situation right now.

[funkdoc]

witch is multiple tiers above the other ones you mentioned, rarely want to ignore it.

if you have trashing on par with, say, forager, i feel pretty safe ignoring sea hag.  do note that if it's an engine board, you may want to pick up a sea hag later if you get ahead of your opponent in building.  junking attacks are one of the best ways to punish your opponent for falling behind in the engine race!

familiar is slightly stronger than sea hag overall, i feel.  with something like remake in the game, i'd still be tempted to ignore it more often than not.  it gets way better if there's another potion card you want anyway, though.

[Marcory]

Basically, look at the Kingdom there can be several reasons to not go for a curser, or to buy fewer of them than your opponent does.

1) if there's a better Attack on the board

2) if there's strong trashing and a fast engine card/combo (Rebuild, Governor, Double Jack, etc)

3) If there's a strong counter (Ambassador, Trader, Watchtower)

4) Gardens

5) Two player games (because getting 15-20 Curses in a 3-4 player game is way worse than getting 10 in a 2 player game

As far as Familiar goes, if you were going to buy the Potion anyway (because of other Potion cards), then go for Familiar. If not, look at the Kingdom again before you make up your mind.

[SCSN]

Witch I'd rarely skip, and my number one reason to skip Sea Hag or Familiar is if there is good expensive stuff you want to hit early and/or often (Upgrade, Junk Dealer, Altar, Wharf).

The presence of Chapel or Forager isn't a good reason to skip Sea Hag; I usually just get both. They might be a reason to postpone Familiar until you're thin, at which point you can give your opponent all the curses in just 4 turns if you buy 3 Familiars in a row. With Masq or Amb I'd usually skip Sea Hag but not Familiar.

[theJester]

As noted a few times, Witch is way less ignorable than the other two. Skipping it is very situational, right now I can only think of:

1) your opponent is going for strong Garden strategy
2) good trashing, better $5s on the board and easily buildable deck where you can protetc yourself with Watchtower/Lighthouse every turn
3) strong engine with key $5 or $5s other than Witch, accompanied by Hermit

Sea Hag is skippable with any good trasher. Masquerade kills Sea Hag so hard it's not funny; Hermit counters it pretty well; while the presence of e.g. Chapel, Remake, Forager, Ambassador etc. simply mean that Sea Hag player will slow himself way more than he'll slow his opponent.

[Max]

Here's one I can never tell: on which boards is torturer better than witch? Torturer is clearly a better big money card, but a worse curser. (Not least the curse goes in hand)

So?

[Jack Rudd]

Here's one I can never tell: on which boards is torturer better than witch? Torturer is clearly a better big money card, but a worse curser. (Not least the curse goes in hand)

So?

Witch is by far the better Big Money card of the two. It'll win that match-up ridiculously handily. Where Torturer shines is on engine boards, where you can play multiple Torturers per turn.

(On an engine board where both were available? I'd probably buy one Witch and then Torturer from then on.)

[markusin]

The thing with Familiar is that you are really in trouble if you don't hit $3P on that second shuffle. If you go the trashing route and ignore Familiar, you never have to worry about that terrible result. Let your opponent worry about hitting $3P if you can.

It's still iffy to skip Familiar with a trasher like Remake without good deck cycling. If you do have good deck cycling cards like Warehouse or Stables or whatnot, you can probably trash Curses almost as fast as the Familiar player can dish them out while investing in cards that aren't Familiar.

[DG]

Control is something that hasn't been mentioned yet. If an opponent has good control of the deck then they may be able to trash out curses easily. As soon as they lose control, perhaps by buying green cards or treasure, the cursing attack becomes strong again. Good trashing in a deck without control may not be enough to defend against curses. The best example may be count. Count is theoretically a strong trashing card but as soon as the count is in hands with a mix of good and bad cards it has to jettison the good cards before trashing and there may not be much left to trash. In a deck with good control the count can trash any number of bad cards in one turn.

[Davio]

Trashing and Cursing/Junking are not mutually exclusive.

As was mentioned earlier, sometimes you can do both. Especially if you are ahead on trashing, you can punish your opponent by emptying the Curse pile on him in a couple of turns.