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tristan

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Credit
« on: April 21, 2016, 06:02:09 am »
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This is a rough idea inspired by the upcoming "gain now, pay later" mechanism from Empires and by this very first good implementation of it.
I wanted something less radical and game-changing though. The basic idea is that the Event applies only to some cards, that you get a fixed amount of money, that you gotta pay interest on every turn and that you have to totally pay it back one day.
I haven't tested this at all, it is just a first sketch so the wording isn't that smooth yet and I have a hunch that this could very well be too weak.


Credit
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

When you buy card from piles with a Credit token on them you may take one or several Loan tokens and reduce the total cost of the buys by 2 per Loan token. During all future Buy phases, after having played Treasure cards and before buying cards, you can repay Loans via paying 2 per Loan token. If you don't you get -1$ per Loan token (if you are currently at 0$ you take your -1 Coin token). At the end of the game you get -3VP per Loan which you did not pay back.

Setup: Put a credit token on two random Kingdom supply piles.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 02:16:49 am by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Credit
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 04:28:49 pm »
+1

I'm confused as to what the event itself does. It sounds like everything that happens is driven around new rules about credit tokens and loan tokens.
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tristan

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Re: Credit
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 02:26:50 am »
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Of course there are new rules. This is about a new mechanism so you naturally need new rules.  ::)

It is pretty straightforward as it works like an ordinary loan:

You can take any number of loans and each provides a fixed amount of 2$ which you can use only for the buys of particular cards (which are selected during setup). I think that 2 cards is a decent way to start but one can of course play around with any number, from 1 to all 10.
During all future buy phases you have the chance to pay back any number of loans via paying 2$. If you don't you gotta pay 1$ interest per loan, i.e. 1 is deducted from you coin pool. I noticed that I did not get the timing right so it should probably say 'after having played all treasures and before purchasing cards' (one cannot put it at the end of the buy phase lest you gotta pay interest during the very buy phase you take the loan).

About the numbers, my hunch is that this might be too weak with an interest rate of 1/2 so perhaps loans should come in the size of 3$ which implies an interest rate of only 1/3. The problem of that is that if the credit token is on a 2$ card and there are no extra buys part of the loan would be wasted.

One technical issue I just saw is that the loans have to reduce the total costs of all buys (otherwise you cannot transfer the virtual coins you get via the loans between several buys). I don't think that this runs into any rule issues but as you normally do not pool buys in Dominion this is something to keep an eye on.
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pedroluchini

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Re: Credit
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 07:41:20 am »
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The concept of "get benefit now, pay for it later" is cool, but your Event is waaaay too wordy. I would start with something simpler and take it from there:

Geas
Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: gain a Curse. If you did, +$2.
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Re: Credit
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 01:04:09 pm »
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The concept of "get benefit now, pay for it later" is cool, but your Event is waaaay too wordy. I would start with something simpler and take it from there:

Geas
Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: gain a Curse. If you did, +$2.

This is a way too strong. It enables very early engines with cards like Doctor, Junk Dealer, Apprentice or Tournament. It is also broken with Trader or Watchtower.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Credit
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 01:22:09 pm »
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The concept of "get benefit now, pay for it later" is cool, but your Event is waaaay too wordy. I would start with something simpler and take it from there:

Geas
Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: gain a Curse. If you did, +$2.

This is a way too strong. It enables very early engines with cards like Doctor, Junk Dealer, Apprentice or Tournament. It is also broken with Trader or Watchtower.

Many of the events are pretty strong. This one doesn't feel as particularly more powerful to me. For example WT/T: you can only use them, if you have them in your hand. Which means you didn't use them for something else (like drawing up to 6 cards or trashing another card).

One small nerf to the card could be: 'Once per turn, put a curse in your discard pile'. Or would that also count as 'gaining'? (I tried to formulate it by analogy with maskerade.)
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Ankenaut

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Re: Credit
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 01:35:21 pm »
0

The concept of "get benefit now, pay for it later" is cool, but your Event is waaaay too wordy. I would start with something simpler and take it from there:

Geas
Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: gain a Curse. If you did, +$2.

This is a way too strong. It enables very early engines with cards like Doctor, Junk Dealer, Apprentice or Tournament. It is also broken with Trader or Watchtower.

Since you fail to gain the Curse with Trader, you wouldn't get the +$2, right?

However, I think the Watchtower objection stands.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Credit
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 01:37:39 pm »
+1

Of course there are new rules. This is about a new mechanism so you naturally need new rules.  ::)

It is pretty straightforward as it works like an ordinary loan:

You can take any number of loans and each provides a fixed amount of 2$ which you can use only for the buys of particular cards (which are selected during setup). I think that 2 cards is a decent way to start but one can of course play around with any number, from 1 to all 10.
During all future buy phases you have the chance to pay back any number of loans via paying 2$. If you don't you gotta pay 1$ interest per loan, i.e. 1 is deducted from you coin pool. I noticed that I did not get the timing right so it should probably say 'after having played all treasures and before purchasing cards' (one cannot put it at the end of the buy phase lest you gotta pay interest during the very buy phase you take the loan).

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with having new rules... I'm saying that it's not at all clear from your post what the Event actually does. What is the purpose of having the actual Event? You have rules that determine how everything works, what is the event for? What does the event do that isn't accomplished by the new rules?
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Gubump

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Re: Credit
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 03:30:35 pm »
0

The concept of "get benefit now, pay for it later" is cool, but your Event is waaaay too wordy. I would start with something simpler and take it from there:

Geas
Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
Once per turn: gain a Curse. If you did, +$2.

This is a way too strong. It enables very early engines with cards like Doctor, Junk Dealer, Apprentice or Tournament. It is also broken with Trader or Watchtower.

Since you fail to gain the Curse with Trader, you wouldn't get the +$2, right?

However, I think the Watchtower objection stands.

Yep, that's correct.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Credit
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2016, 05:30:14 pm »
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One small nerf to the card could be: 'Once per turn, put a curse in your discard pile'. Or would that also count as 'gaining'? (I tried to formulate it by analogy with maskerade.)

That gives me an idea:

Empty Child
Action, Cost $4
+$5
The player to your left may pass you a card from his hand. -$1 per $1 cost of that card.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 07:20:00 pm by Ankenaut »
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tristan

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Re: Credit
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2016, 07:48:41 am »
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Of course there are new rules. This is about a new mechanism so you naturally need new rules.  ::)

It is pretty straightforward as it works like an ordinary loan:

You can take any number of loans and each provides a fixed amount of 2$ which you can use only for the buys of particular cards (which are selected during setup). I think that 2 cards is a decent way to start but one can of course play around with any number, from 1 to all 10.
During all future buy phases you have the chance to pay back any number of loans via paying 2$. If you don't you gotta pay 1$ interest per loan, i.e. 1 is deducted from you coin pool. I noticed that I did not get the timing right so it should probably say 'after having played all treasures and before purchasing cards' (one cannot put it at the end of the buy phase lest you gotta pay interest during the very buy phase you take the loan).
I'm saying that it's not at all clear from your post what the Event actually does.
Already explained it twice so you might wanna specify which part is unclear.
Here is the third, short version: Select two cards during setup, when you buy any of those you can take any amount of Loans, one Loan reduce the total buy cost by 2$. In all future buy phases, after having played treasures and before buying cards, you can pay back any number of loans via spending 2 coins. If you did not pay back a loan you gotta pay 1$ interest.


What is the purpose of having the actual Event?
There ya go, very first sentence in this thread:

This is a rough idea inspired by the upcoming "gain now, pay later" mechanism from Empires and by this very first good implementation of it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 07:49:55 am by tristan »
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Gubump

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Re: Credit
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 08:33:28 am »
+2

Already explained it twice so you might wanna specify which part is unclear.
Here is the third, short version: Select two cards during setup, when you buy any of those you can take any amount of Loans, one Loan reduce the total buy cost by 2$. In all future buy phases, after having played treasures and before buying cards, you can pay back any number of loans via spending 2 coins. If you did not pay back a loan you gotta pay 1$ interest.

So, is the Credit event taking a Loan, or getting rid of a Loan? It would help if you, you know, said which part of that requires the use of the Credit event. We're not stupid, we understand what the mechanic does, but literally no part of what you said requires the Credit event. I'm guessing that what the event should say is this:

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, for each Loan token you have: you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

There you go, requires around half the words and you don't have to be a logician to figure out which part of this whole mechanic Credit does.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 08:44:59 am by Gubump »
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tristan

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Re: Credit
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 08:37:20 am »
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Already explained it twice so you might wanna specify which part is unclear.
Here is the third, short version: Select two cards during setup, when you buy any of those you can take any amount of Loans, one Loan reduce the total buy cost by 2$. In all future buy phases, after having played treasures and before buying cards, you can pay back any number of loans via spending 2 coins. If you did not pay back a loan you gotta pay 1$ interest.

So, is the Credit event taking a Loan, or getting rid of a Loan? It would help if you, you know, said which part of that requires the use of the Credit event. We're not stupid, we understand what the mechanic does, but literally no part of what you said requires the Credit event. I'm guessing that what the event should say is this:

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

There you go, requires around half the words and you don't have to be a logician to figure out which part of this whole mechanic Credit does.
Problem with your wording is that you can only take 1 Loan and that it reduces the cost of the card by 2. I want the Event to enable you do take several Loans and the Loan to provide only 2 Coins and not potentially 4 or 6 if you buy a card several times.
This simply requires some words. Now I am well aware that my wording is anything but perfect but there is no way to express the notion of pooling together the total cost of all buys and reducing this cost total by 2$ per Loan token taken with as few words as you tried to do.

About the lack of clarity concerning the Event, as it is a 0$ cost event which provides an extra buy it is something you can always trigger during your Buy phase. You are totally right that one could implement this without the use of an Event and via a simple rule amendment but for practical reasons one might want to have the rules written on the Event.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 08:46:30 am by tristan »
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Gubump

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Re: Credit
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 08:47:47 am »
0

Already explained it twice so you might wanna specify which part is unclear.
Here is the third, short version: Select two cards during setup, when you buy any of those you can take any amount of Loans, one Loan reduce the total buy cost by 2$. In all future buy phases, after having played treasures and before buying cards, you can pay back any number of loans via spending 2 coins. If you did not pay back a loan you gotta pay 1$ interest.

So, is the Credit event taking a Loan, or getting rid of a Loan? It would help if you, you know, said which part of that requires the use of the Credit event. We're not stupid, we understand what the mechanic does, but literally no part of what you said requires the Credit event. I'm guessing that what the event should say is this:

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

There you go, requires around half the words and you don't have to be a logician to figure out which part of this whole mechanic Credit does.
Problem with your wording is that you can only take 1 Loan and that it reduces the cost of the card by 2. I want the Event to enable you do take several Loans and the Loan to provide only 2 Coins and not potentially 4 or 6 if you buy a card several times.
This simply requires some words. Now I am well aware that my wording is anything but perfect but there is no way to express the notion of pooling together the total cost of all buys and reducing this cost total by 2$ per Loan token taken with as few words as you tried to do.

Modified version: Even in my original wording, I don't see any restrictions stating how many Loan tokens you can have. And since it gives +1 Buy, you can buy it as many times as you want without losing a single buy, and it stacks. Did you mean that it just didn't stack with my previous wording? Because that's true.

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, for each Loan token you have: you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

PS: I believe that Gendo's confusion arises from the fact that in the OP, it LOOKS like an event that just gives +1 Buy, and then you have a separate rules explanation below; I know now that you intended that last paragraph in the OP to be part of the Event's wording, but it doesn't look like it is. I think that either removing the space between said paragraph and the +1 Buy or putting the type and cost at the end like I do would remove any confusion (or at least lessen it in the former case).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 08:52:38 am by Gubump »
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Ankenaut

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Re: Credit
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2016, 08:50:58 am »
0

Out of curiosity, why only allow it on 2 random piles? Why not just allow it on any pile and dispense with the Credit token part all together?
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tristan

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Re: Credit
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 08:57:01 am »
0

Already explained it twice so you might wanna specify which part is unclear.
Here is the third, short version: Select two cards during setup, when you buy any of those you can take any amount of Loans, one Loan reduce the total buy cost by 2$. In all future buy phases, after having played treasures and before buying cards, you can pay back any number of loans via spending 2 coins. If you did not pay back a loan you gotta pay 1$ interest.

So, is the Credit event taking a Loan, or getting rid of a Loan? It would help if you, you know, said which part of that requires the use of the Credit event. We're not stupid, we understand what the mechanic does, but literally no part of what you said requires the Credit event. I'm guessing that what the event should say is this:

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

There you go, requires around half the words and you don't have to be a logician to figure out which part of this whole mechanic Credit does.
Problem with your wording is that you can only take 1 Loan and that it reduces the cost of the card by 2. I want the Event to enable you do take several Loans and the Loan to provide only 2 Coins and not potentially 4 or 6 if you buy a card several times.
This simply requires some words. Now I am well aware that my wording is anything but perfect but there is no way to express the notion of pooling together the total cost of all buys and reducing this cost total by 2$ per Loan token taken with as few words as you tried to do.

Modified version: Even in my original wording, I don't see any restrictions stating how many Loan tokens you can have. And since it gives +1 Buy, you can buy it as many times as you want without losing a single buy, and it stacks. Did you mean that it just didn't stack with my previous wording? Because that's true.

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, for each Loan token you have: you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event
Sorry, I did not catch that. The Loan should still provide 2 Coins though and not reduce the price. Here is my modified version of your version. As I said, I am not happy with my words yet but the concept of reducing the total cost of all purchases cards with a Credit token on them is after all new and thus tricky to formulate briefly and unambigously:

Credit:
+1 Buy
Take a Loan token and reduce the total cost of buys of cards with a Credit token on them by 2.  (After playing your Treasures but before buying cards or Events, for each Loan token you have: you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token.) At the end of the game you get -3VP per Loan which you did not pay back.

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
Cost: $0
Event

Perhaps it is not clear yet why I think that the total cost of all buys should be reduced by 2 so I try to clarify. Suppose that the rule does not exist the two cards with a Credit token on them are Village and Lab and thus cost 3$ and 5$. Also suppose the player has 2 Coins and 2 Buys. If he took one Loan token he could buy Village but one Coin would be wasted. If he took two Loans token he could buy Lab but one Coin would be wasted.
With this pooling rule in place though he could take 3 Loans and buy Village and Lab.


Out of curiosity, why only allow it on 2 random piles? Why not just allow it on any pile and dispense with the Credit token part all together?
As I already said, I think one can play around with all the numbers. I will try this with the Loan providing 2 and 3 Coins and of course the amount of cards with Credit tokens on them can vary from 1 to 10. The latter is simply a matter of taste.

For my taste 10 is too radical and more akin to your Mortgage which is more of a rule change than an actual Event. I like your Mortgage a lot but I wanted to do something more conservative and more similar to the upcoming new mechanism which, if I understand it correctly, only applies to some cards.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 09:01:24 am by tristan »
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Gubump

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Re: Credit
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 08:58:02 am »
0

Just realized that I completely forgot about the VP penalty on my wording. So here's my new new wording:

+1 Buy
Take a Loan token. If you do, all cards with a Credit token on their pile cost $2 less this turn. (After playing your Treasures but before buying any cards or Events, for each Loan token you have: you may spend $2. If you don't, -$1 (but not less than $0). If you already had $0, take your -$1 token. At the end of the game, -3VP for each Loan token you have.)

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
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Re: Credit
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2016, 09:03:01 am »
0

and reduce the total cost of buys of cards with a Credit token on them by 2.

Based on what you said, I think that Credit should just give +$2 instead of reducing cost. This wording is much less clunky for the same effect (yes, there's an edge case with Border Village, but that's the exception, not the rule).
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Re: Credit
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 09:06:11 am »
0

and reduce the total cost of buys of cards with a Credit token on them by 2.

Based on what you said, I think that Credit should just give +$2 instead of reducing cost. This wording is much less clunky for the same effect (yes, there's an edge case with Border Village, but that's the exception, not the rule).
The problem with this is that the player could then use the 2 Coins he got via taking a Loan to buy cards which do not have a Credit token on them.
This is of course not an issue if one wants to play, as Ankenaut indicated, without the Credit token restriction and use Credit on all 10 cards instead of on just 2.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Credit
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 10:36:27 pm »
+1

It's possible I didn't phrase my confusion clearly enough, but from the responses, Tristan, it sounds like you're just being very hostile to me, and I'm not sure why.

I have no confusion around how the mechanic works. The confusion is what that mechanic has to do with the event. The OP seems to describe rules around what credit tokens and loan tokens do, and it's clear what those do. It's not clear where the event comes into play. I guess you're saying that you only use the credit tokens and loan tokens in games with that event, but even then the event itself doesn't do anything except change the way the game is setup and whether or not you use those rules. There's no reason to ever buy that event that I can see.
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Re: Credit
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 11:26:31 pm »
0

It's possible I didn't phrase my confusion clearly enough, but from the responses, Tristan, it sounds like you're just being very hostile to me, and I'm not sure why.

I have no confusion around how the mechanic works. The confusion is what that mechanic has to do with the event. The OP seems to describe rules around what credit tokens and loan tokens do, and it's clear what those do. It's not clear where the event comes into play. I guess you're saying that you only use the credit tokens and loan tokens in games with that event, but even then the event itself doesn't do anything except change the way the game is setup and whether or not you use those rules. There's no reason to ever buy that event that I can see.

I think that the "rules around what Credit and Loan tokens do" is the Credit Event's text. I think that Credit is how you take Loan tokens.
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Re: Credit
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2016, 11:34:50 pm »
0

It's possible I didn't phrase my confusion clearly enough, but from the responses, Tristan, it sounds like you're just being very hostile to me, and I'm not sure why.

I have no confusion around how the mechanic works. The confusion is what that mechanic has to do with the event. The OP seems to describe rules around what credit tokens and loan tokens do, and it's clear what those do. It's not clear where the event comes into play. I guess you're saying that you only use the credit tokens and loan tokens in games with that event, but even then the event itself doesn't do anything except change the way the game is setup and whether or not you use those rules. There's no reason to ever buy that event that I can see.

I think that the "rules around what Credit and Loan tokens do" is the Credit Event's text. I think that Credit is how you take Loan tokens.

I can see that, though the wording doesn't quite work out that way. The wording is set up more as a general rule, and not as an effect of the event. Kind of like the wording on Embargo that explains what embargo tokens do; you don't have to actually play an Embargo for those rules to be true. For buying the event to be a necessary part of using the mechanic, the wording on the event should say "Take up to 2 loan tokens. You may purchase a card from a pile with a credit token on it for $2 less per loan token taken this way."

This way the taking of the tokens and the buying of the card is the effect that buying the event has. And you wouldn't have +1 buy on the event because the event gives you a buy just like Black Market does. It's just that as worded, nothing acuslly happens when you buy the event. Perhaps if it said "this turn" or something.
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tristan

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Re: Credit
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2016, 05:53:14 am »
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Quote
I can see that, though the wording doesn't quite work out that way. The wording is set up more as a general rule, and not as an effect of the event.
That's because the Event (or in general any 0$, +1 Buy, no "once per turn" restriction Event) emulates a rule change. Gee, that's what this is all about, a stab, probably not a very good one, at the upcoming "gain now, pay later" mechanism.

But I don't want this rule to exist in every game, so it should be conditional upon the Event being there, and for practical reasons I obviously want the rule text on a card.
Just read in this thread about Ankenaut's Mortgage. According to Ankenaut it is totally game-changing and feels like a variant. I wanted something less radical though, hence the steeper costs via interest (Mortgage can be "payed back" at any time) and the restriction to only two cards.

Quote
There's no reason to ever buy that event that I can see.
Buying the Event costs nothing so it is moot to discuss whether you do or do not buy it. All the Event does is specify WHEN, namely during the Buy phase.
All this confusion on your part is obviously due to the fact that you do not seem to grasp the mechanical equivalence of a rule amendment and an zero cost Event.
Boils down to the usual error of rule lawyering before getting the mechanics. First you gotta consider how something works and whether it works fine before you express and formalize it perfectly. I'd rather discuss something actually relevant e.g. whether the implicit interest rate should be 1/2 and 1/3 and whether -3VP sounds like a decent penalty for default on a Loan.


"Take up to 2 loan tokens. You may purchase a card from a pile with a credit token on it for $2 less per loan token taken this way."
This wording does not work at all. You should be able to take as many Loan tokens as you want and the virtual coins you get via Loan tokens should be splitable among buys (I already explained why pooling the Loans and the total cost of all eligible buys is quintessential). Hence my awkward "reduce the total cost of buys of cards with a Credit token on them by 2" wording.


Here is the new version, a mixture between Gubump's (thanks man) and my first wording:

Credit
Cost: $0
Type: Event

+1 Buy
Take any number of Loan tokens and reduce the total cost of buys of cards with a Credit token on them by 2.
After playing your Treasures but before buying cards, you can pay back any amount of Loans via spending 2$ per Loan. If you don't, -$1 per Loan . If you already had $0, take your -$1 token. At the end of the game you get -3VP per Loan token which you did not pay back.

Setup: Put a Credit token on two Kingdom Supply piles.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 06:02:09 am by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Credit
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2016, 08:33:27 am »
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I thought for some reason it was limited to 2; probably thinking of the discussion on Mortgage. So ignore that part.

I don't think you can split it between buys that way though. At least not with that wording. Buys have to happen one at a time; and you have to have a known amount of coin to spend after each buy (imagine a card with an on-buy clause that does something with the amount of coin you have. Or even simpler, you need to know how much Border Village cost when you bought it).

How about "Take any number of loan tokens. For each token taken this way, +$2 that can only be spent on cards with credit tokens on them."

Ascension has a mechanic like this; some cards provide you with specialized money that can only be spent on certain types of cards.

Note also that this requires 3 horizontal lines on the card to separate the different times of the different effects.

What happens right now when you buy the event
______________________
What happens at the start of each buy phase
______________________
What happens at the end of the game
______________________
The setup rule
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 08:35:48 am by GendoIkari »
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Gubump

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Re: Credit
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2016, 08:57:00 am »
+2

Quote
I can see that, though the wording doesn't quite work out that way. The wording is set up more as a general rule, and not as an effect of the event.
That's because the Event (or in general any 0$, +1 Buy, no "once per turn" restriction Event) emulates a rule change. Gee, that's what this is all about, a stab, probably not a very good one, at the upcoming "gain now, pay later" mechanism.

But I don't want this rule to exist in every game, so it should be conditional upon the Event being there, and for practical reasons I obviously want the rule text on a card.
Just read in this thread about Ankenaut's Mortgage. According to Ankenaut it is totally game-changing and feels like a variant. I wanted something less radical though, hence the steeper costs via interest (Mortgage can be "payed back" at any time) and the restriction to only two cards.

Quote
There's no reason to ever buy that event that I can see.
Buying the Event costs nothing so it is moot to discuss whether you do or do not buy it. All the Event does is specify WHEN, namely during the Buy phase.
All this confusion on your part is obviously due to the fact that you do not seem to grasp the mechanical equivalence of a rule amendment and an zero cost Event.
Boils down to the usual error of rule lawyering before getting the mechanics. First you gotta consider how something works and whether it works fine before you express and formalize it perfectly. I'd rather discuss something actually relevant e.g. whether the implicit interest rate should be 1/2 and 1/3 and whether -3VP sounds like a decent penalty for default on a Loan.

I don't know why you're being so hostile towards GendoIkari. I happen to agree with him, that's why I suggested new wordings for the Credit event.

It seems like you're always hostile towards anyone who doesn't follow your flawed logic to arrive at the exact interpretation you do or that you intended. We're not you, so knock off the whole "rule lawyering" thing; caring about the rules, which you sometimes seem to not do, is not the same thing as being pedantic about them.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 09:01:54 am by Gubump »
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