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Author Topic: Beggar Counting House?  (Read 4153 times)

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Polk5440

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Beggar Counting House?
« on: April 18, 2016, 07:56:36 pm »
+2

So, I am dusting off my Dominion skills. Usually, when I get cleanly beat, I can usually say "yeah, I should have seen that." But, this game, NO WAY would I have seen Beggar-Counting House as playable. And that concerns me. Is this a thing I have missed? Did I grossly misplay? If I had stuck to 2 Masqs and money would that have been better?



Code: [Select]
Beggar, Cellar, Masquerade, Philosopher's Stone, Caravan, Fortress, Militia, Scavenger, Counting House, Adventurer
From Schneau's Beggar article:
Similarly, Counting House can be a good partner in an otherwise mediocre kingdom - you can easily get more than enough Coppers in your deck to get Colonies. Also, since Begger is a terminal Gold, it is easy to hit early $5 to get the Counting Houses. This should come with the usual caveat that Counting House is not a good card, and should only be attempted if no strong strategies are present.

I guess so? But with Masq on the board?
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 08:24:20 pm »
+1

I would probably go Masquerade, Fortress, Militia, Scavenger (and caravan can never really hurt). But that's not a particularly strong combo, so that's probably why Beggar/Countin House was a thing.

And cellar helps to get Counting House more/faster.
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Polk5440

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 08:30:35 pm »
0

I would probably go Masquerade, Fortress, Militia, Scavenger (and caravan can never really hurt). But that's not a particularly strong combo, so that's probably why Beggar/Countin House was a thing.

And cellar helps to get Counting House more/faster.

Glad I'm not the only one who had that thought. Would your buy order differ from mine?
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wachsmuth

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 08:42:48 pm »
+1

I would probably go Masquerade, Fortress, Militia, Scavenger (and caravan can never really hurt). But that's not a particularly strong combo, so that's probably why Beggar/Countin House was a thing.

And cellar helps to get Counting House more/faster.

Glad I'm not the only one who had that thought. Would your buy order differ from mine?

Mine was different. I wanna go for setting up the very strong discard attack as fast as possible. I think you bought way too many stop cards that don't help set up the Masquerade-Fortress-Militia deck. You end the game with very little draw, which makes the possibility of hitting with the discard attack pretty unlikely. My deck ended up looking something like 2 Fortresses, 1 Masquerade, 1 Gold, 4 Caravans, 2 Silvers, 1 Copper, 1 Militia + VP cards. Since there is no +Buy, getting more money than 8$ doesn't do much if you're drawing your deck. The attack is so powerful against most strategies that it's still worth it to delay greening in favor of setting it fully up, hence I think I bought Caravan over Province once. I also think Scavenger is pretty superfluous, if you wanna play it you just have to get more Fortresses, and it doesn't do that much in your deck once you're drawing it. Caravan is however a key card here in my view, since it is the only consistent draw (Masquerade and Adventurer also draw, but bleeeh). I opened Caravan/Masquerade, then delayed getting silvers and only prioritised getting my draw up, trashing and playing Militia as often as possible. Maybe Counting House/Beggar could be good on a 5/2? Probably still loses to the engine.
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Titandrake

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 08:54:07 pm »
+5

I would have gone for the semi-engine of trying to play Milita + Masq every turn. CH/Beggar might work, but it feels risky, since you need to draw CH and Scavenger at the right times to make it scary enough.

There's no +Buy, and all the cards you want (Fortress, Masquerade, Caravan, Militia) cost less than $5, so you don't need to open Silver here. Accordingly, you should focus entirely on setting up draw. Caravan/Masq > Masq/Silver for the open. Caravans are very important because you want Masq + Militia in hand with 2 actions to get the full benefit.

My game plan here is probably Caravan/Masq opening, get 2nd Masq ASAP for trashing, and pick up some Caravans/Fortress before Militia. Early on I'd even buy Caravan over Gold, because you'll have time to buy Gold later. You don't need Militia right away, it's better long term to pick up other things.

Edit: I think the key point here is that in the log, you spend turns 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 8 buying treasures or terminal Silvers. That forces you into a money strategy, because you don't have time to buy the actions you want, but you also have a few more actions than a money strategy would want, so you're getting the worst of both worlds.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 08:58:19 pm by Titandrake »
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Seprix

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 11:06:57 pm »
+1

Beggar/Counting House seems disgusting. There's no plus buy, and there's a whole lot of junk in your deck as well.
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ConMan

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 12:06:59 am »
0

Beggar/Counting House seems disgusting. There's no plus buy, and there's a whole lot of junk in your deck as well.
If you had Prince and a +Buy card then you could Prince the CH, then maybe even Prince the Beggar. Then spam the +Buy and pile the Gardens since at this point I'm pretty much inventing the entire board. And you'd still probably lose.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 02:14:49 am »
+1

FWIW, the Militia is somewhat weaker against Beggar+CH, even if you throw in Masquerade as a kicker.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 03:48:34 am »
+1

Beggar/Counting House seems disgusting. There's no plus buy, and there's a whole lot of junk in your deck as well.
If you had Prince and a +Buy card then you could Prince the CH, then maybe even Prince the Beggar. Then spam the +Buy and pile the Gardens since at this point I'm pretty much inventing the entire board. And you'd still probably lose.

You can't prince CH, unless there is like bridge or highway.
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wachsmuth

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 05:42:21 pm »
+1

Beggar/Counting House seems disgusting. There's no plus buy, and there's a whole lot of junk in your deck as well.

Actually I sometimes play Beggar/Counting House on colony boards. It's shuffle luck dependent, but in my experience it beats most weak money strategies and weak engines on colony boards. Beggar/Beggar is a pretty hilarious opening, but it's not terrible. The fact that this is a province board makes me a lot more sceptic of the strategy though.
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dedicateddan

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 03:14:25 am »
+2

Masquerade/Caravan is a pretty nice opening. In an engine mirror, I'd delay treasures, pick up some Caravans and go for the Militia/Fortress/Masquerade attack that Titandrake mentioned. If you hit 2, a single Cellar is probably good.

I've played a few games opening Beggar/Beggar and then picking up 2 Counting Houses and a Scavenger, which can be used to either discard deck and topdeck Beggar or put a Counting House on top. This strategy hits 30 points around turn 13. I think it's a bit faster than the Masquerade deck, on average, and has a bit of edge in Duchy dancing.
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TrojH

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2016, 12:58:12 pm »
0

Am I crazy for thinking that Beggar/Philosopher's Stone might be a thing?
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brokoli

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Re: Beggar Counting House?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2016, 08:25:58 am »
+1

Militia is weak against a copper-based kind of deck, but here militia remains strong, because it hurts cellar.
I'm not sure which strategy I would chose here, but the CH/Begger/Scavenger/PS thing is very tempting. Same kingdom without masquerade would be a clear victory for that strategy.
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