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Author Topic: Cliffside Village: a village that seems like it should exist but doesn't  (Read 4180 times)

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Ankenaut

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It's similar to Coin of the Realm's call effect, but as a reaction on a village. Thus, whether you play it first or after drawing it into your hand with a terminal draw, you can still get the same effect as if you had just played the village first.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 05:56:20 pm by Ankenaut »
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ThetaSigma12

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Seems Good! I'm going to go ahead and mock it up with a better image I've been saving for a while.
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This card can lead to perpetual loops where your Action count gets arbitrarily high.
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Seprix

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I would change the reaction to this: "Directly after playing an Action card, you may set this aside. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action. At the end of your turn, put all set aside Cliffside Villages into the discard pile."

This kills all perpetual loops, and is now a fun card.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 03:48:10 pm by Seprix »
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Ankenaut

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This card can lead to perpetual loops where your Action count gets arbitrarily high.

Nice catch. Thank you!

I would change the reaction to this: "Directly after playing an Action card, you may set this aside. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action. At the end of your turn, put all set aside Cliffside Villages into the discard pile."

Good idea, though is there are reason to say "Directly after playing an Action card" rather than "Directly after resolving an Action"? The latter language was borrowed from Coin of the Realm, but I don't know if there is a functional difference.
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pacovf

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I would change it to:

Quote
Cliffside village
Action - Reaction 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.

You want to say "resolving" rather than "playing", because in the latter case, you have to use the effect before, say, you know what you drew with Smithy.
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Seprix

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I would change it to:

Quote
Cliffside village
Action - Reaction 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.

You want to say "resolving" rather than "playing", because in the latter case, you have to use the effect before, say, you know what you drew with Smithy.

Well, that's just way better than this whole "set aside" thing. It's also a crazy unique village in that you'll be playing and reacting all the time. It will be almost as bad as playing Spy in Online Dominion though, so if this card somehow gets implemented, I will hate you very much.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 04:00:26 pm by Seprix »
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Ankenaut

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I would change it to:

Quote
Cliffside village
Action - Reaction 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.

You want to say "resolving" rather than "playing", because in the latter case, you have to use the effect before, say, you know what you drew with Smithy.

I like where you all are going with this, but I kind of still wanted it to village if you just play it normally too (but I didn't want it to be +2 Actions in the reaction part - the idea is to have more or less the same net effect whether you play it or react with it - of course, it doesn't count toward actions for Conspirator or Peddler).

How about this:

Cliffside village
Action - Reaction 4$
+1 Card
+2 Action

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand. If you do, -1 Action.

I personally don't have a problem with the -1 Action wording (and I've used it on other cards), but I get that some people don't like it.
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pacovf

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Unless Cliffside village is the only Action in your starting hand (or you want to Throne it), there is no difference between your version and mine, and I think the simplicity is worth it. *shrugs*
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Seprix

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I like Pacovf's version more, even if it's just a cantrip on its own. Well, a Village is useless then on its own as well, so it works out.
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market squire

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You could also do it as a Treasure, so you wouldn't need two different effects. Something like this:

Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.
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Seprix

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You could also do it as a Treasure, so you wouldn't need two different effects. Something like this:

Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.

Ew, returning to your action phase? No thanks.
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AdrianHealey

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You could also do it as a Treasure, so you wouldn't need two different effects. Something like this:

Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.

Ew, returning to your action phase? No thanks.

Why do people dislike the 'return to your action phase' concept?
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Ankenaut

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http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1793

What's old is new again. :)

Well there you go. I thought somebody must have done this before, but I'm new here and only recently discovered these nice card templates.  :)
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Marcory

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You could also do it as a Treasure, so you wouldn't need two different effects. Something like this:

Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.

Ew, returning to your action phase? No thanks.

Why do people dislike the 'return to your action phase' concept?

It could lead to some nasty tricks with Horn of Plenty (draw and play your deck except for a Smithy, play HoP to get new cards (topdecking them with Watchtower or Royal Seal), draw them with Smithy, then you're off to the races again), Mandarin (gain a Mandarin when you return to your Action phase, then re-draw all your Treasures so that you can play them again), and others.

But more importantly, once someone has played their Treasures, I normally know that I can start preparing for my next turn. Sure, they might still hit me with IGG or something, and of course there's Mission/Outpost/Possession, but ordinarily, the Buy and Cleanup phases are a transitional period between two players' turns. 'Return to your Action Phase' dispenses with this psychological transitional phase. 

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AdrianHealey

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I find neither of these arguments personally persuasive, to be honest. What part of your first paragraph is a 'game breaking mechanic' susbtantially different than tfb + forretress, for example?
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werothegreat

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How about:

Cliffside Village
- Action-Reaction

+1 Card
+1 Action

If you did not play this as a Reaction, +1 Action.

--------

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.
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Ankenaut

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How about:

Cliffside Village
- Action-Reaction

+1 Card
+1 Action

If you did not play this as a Reaction, +1 Action.

--------

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.

Thank you. I changed it to this. I do wish that I could functionally get this while being as simple as pacovf's version - almost just went with that.
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Gubump

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How about:

Cliffside Village
- Action-Reaction

+1 Card
+1 Action

If you did not play this as a Reaction, +1 Action.

--------

Directly after resolving an Action, you may play this from your hand.

Funnily enough, this is the EXACT wording I was thinking of.
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eHalcyon

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I find neither of these arguments personally persuasive, to be honest. What part of your first paragraph is a 'game breaking mechanic' susbtantially different than tfb + forretress, for example?

IMO, "return to your action phase" comes with too much rules confusion.  Do you get +1 action automatically?  If you had extra actions, do you still have them?  The rules only say you have one Buy phase, but do you get a second one now?  I'm not saying that there aren't correct or satisfactory answers to these questions, just that I foresee many people having different answers to these questions.  There are just easier ways to do something similar that is easier to keep consistent with the rules.

Th second reason I'm not a fan of this is that we already have a card that does something very similar -- Coin of the Realm.  A "return to your action phase" effect is pretty much redundant with what CotR does.
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Seprix

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I find neither of these arguments personally persuasive, to be honest. What part of your first paragraph is a 'game breaking mechanic' susbtantially different than tfb + forretress, for example?

Returning to the action phase is lame. It's just plain lame. It's like a cheap Champion. Your turn will never end, there will never really be a consequence for playing poorly with your actions, since you have an ace in the hole with your terminal draw. It serves few actual good purposes, and when it works, it feels cheap and unfair. Oh look, your opponent didn't buy Province, well haha to you, he gets to go all over again and have a whole other buy phase as well. It's also powerful because it can clear some coppers for you so you're not as afraid to trigger reshuffles. It's also confusing with rules and just a complete hassle to implement for little benefit, if any. Donald could probably provide like 8 other reasons I could never conceive of with why it's a terrible idea.

With this in mind, I'm not even a huge fan of the Cliffside Village. It sort of kills the whole terminal draw thing. I mean, I hate drawing cards dead, but that's part of the game. But I could live with Cliffside Village. It would be easily one of the best Villages in the game, but it's a card I can live with for sure. I just can't live with a treasure card that sends you back into the Action phase again.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 06:37:01 pm by Seprix »
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AdrianHealey

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I find neither of these arguments personally persuasive, to be honest. What part of your first paragraph is a 'game breaking mechanic' susbtantially different than tfb + forretress, for example?

IMO, "return to your action phase" comes with too much rules confusion.  Do you get +1 action automatically?  If you had extra actions, do you still have them?  The rules only say you have one Buy phase, but do you get a second one now?  I'm not saying that there aren't correct or satisfactory answers to these questions, just that I foresee many people having different answers to these questions.  There are just easier ways to do something similar that is easier to keep consistent with the rules.

Th second reason I'm not a fan of this is that we already have a card that does something very similar -- Coin of the Realm.  A "return to your action phase" effect is pretty much redundant with what CotR does.

CotR doesn't 'return to your action phase'; it stays there, it never leaves it.

And the points are fair, but for my personal taste, not persuasive. I do agree with the 'let's be careful here' point.
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eHalcyon

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I find neither of these arguments personally persuasive, to be honest. What part of your first paragraph is a 'game breaking mechanic' susbtantially different than tfb + forretress, for example?

IMO, "return to your action phase" comes with too much rules confusion.  Do you get +1 action automatically?  If you had extra actions, do you still have them?  The rules only say you have one Buy phase, but do you get a second one now?  I'm not saying that there aren't correct or satisfactory answers to these questions, just that I foresee many people having different answers to these questions.  There are just easier ways to do something similar that is easier to keep consistent with the rules.

Th second reason I'm not a fan of this is that we already have a card that does something very similar -- Coin of the Realm.  A "return to your action phase" effect is pretty much redundant with what CotR does.

CotR doesn't 'return to your action phase'; it stays there, it never leaves it.

And the points are fair, but for my personal taste, not persuasive. I do agree with the 'let's be careful here' point.

I'm not saying that CotR returns to your action phase, just that its effect is very similar.  I have no Village and I play Smithy.  In my buy phase, I play something or use a reaction that returns me to my action phase and continue from there.  Or alternatively, I call CotR  and continue from there.  It works out about the same.
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liopoil

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I don't like 'if you didn't play this as a reaction', as what it means is not that well-defined. Just leave the line out entirely and you get a card which is almost always functionally the same (just always play it as a reaction).
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