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Author Topic: Braggart - a cantrip card-to-hand gainer and friendly Sea Hag  (Read 1810 times)

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King Leon

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Braggert (Action Attack Looter $4)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player discards the top card of his deck.
Gain a card costing up to $3; put it in your hand.
Each other player gains a card from the same pile, putting it on top of his deck.

Which cards would you gain from Braggert?
Copper
This is obviously a Peddler variant with a soft Sea Witch effect. Nothing special, but mostly a safe choice.

Curse
A mix of Familiar and Sea Hag. You need Trasher support, otherwise you gain a Curse. Bad choice, especially in 2P games, because the Curse pile is empty after 5 plays of this card.

Ruins
Its like a cross between Copper and Curse and heavily depends on the cards in the Ruins pile.

Silver, Woodcutter
Be careful. This may be very interesting, but could also support the other players.

Terminal Silver
Be careful with this. While you Woodcutter actually can . Remind, that Braggert gives you +1 Action. This makes Woodcutter . Embargo is also a great choice, because they mostly harm your opponent, while you norm

Estate
Very obviously. Quick emptying the Estate pile and messing your opponents' next turn up.

Chancellor, Duchess
An interesting one. Being similar to Silver/Woodcutter, but also cluttering your deck, if you have no Village support.

Lighthouse, Haven, Fools Gold, Sage, Trade Route, Chapel, Village, Wishing Well ...
Just never do this.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 05:19:21 pm by King Leon »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 02:09:15 pm »
0

I like it! It's a cool Lab variant with a big twist. I don't think it really needs to be a Looter though. With coppers, curses and Silver out every game I don't think you need more targets. :)
I'm not sure about your "never do this". The fact that you can wish for any 3-cost card makes it a powerful engine smoothener. Also, opening Braggert/Silver into Braggerting Chapel beats many Chapel/X openings, I think.
You get to use Chapel in a 6 cards hand, and that's pretty good, and you also get to give your opponent a useless card (chapel).
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 02:10:39 pm by Accatitippi »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2016, 02:18:58 pm »
0

Neat. But I agree with Accatitippi, it will often be good to use it on good cards. If you consider just the "everyone gains 1" effect, then it balances out, such that you're playing more or less just a cantrip (obviously not by itself good for $4). BUT there are several other considerations that make it not just equal:

1. You get the card right away, into your hand.
2.  You can gain the card you need right then (a Village with a hand of multiple terminals, etc).
3. You are choosing to gain a card that fits your own strategy; it may not fit your opponent's strategy.
4. If you're playing multiples, then only the last card goes on your opponent's deck, the others are in the discard, so you get them much sooner than he does.
5. You can gain the last card in a pile this way.
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King Leon

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2016, 02:31:10 pm »
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Neat. But I agree with Accatitippi, it will often be good to use it on good cards. If you consider just the "everyone gains 1" effect, then it balances out, such that you're playing more or less just a cantrip (obviously not by itself good for $4). BUT there are several other considerations that make it not just equal:

1. You get the card right away, into your hand.
2.  You can gain the card you need right then (a Village with a hand of multiple terminals, etc).
3. You are choosing to gain a card that fits your own strategy; it may not fit your opponent's strategy.
4. If you're playing multiples, then only the last card goes on your opponent's deck, the others are in the discard, so you get them much sooner than he does.
5. You can gain the last card in a pile this way.

I know, that this card is very strong for $4, but I have not tested it with $5. The problem with $5 is, that it might be unbalanced without Baker/Borrow/(Nomad Camp), because not every player can gain it in his first turn. But I'll try it. I never thought about that this is also a Lab variant ;)
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Accatitippi

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2016, 05:11:51 pm »
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Thinking some more about this, I worry that the interaction with cost reducers might be a bit toxic (in particular Highway, being nonterminal).
Highway-Braggart can empty the Braggart pile in one turn, while drawing you a whole lot of cards, for example. Whether this is fun or not is a matter of tastes, and it's hard to say without testing the interaction on one's skin.
Anyway, this particular interaction is easily fixed by increasing the price (harder to pull off, but I like this at 4!) or by adding a specific exception forbidding Bragging about Braggarts.
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schadd

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2016, 05:21:11 pm »
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Thinking some more about this, I worry that the interaction with cost reducers might be a bit toxic (in particular Highway, being nonterminal).
Highway-Braggart can empty the Braggart pile in one turn, while drawing you a whole lot of cards, for example. Whether this is fun or not is a matter of tastes, and it's hard to say without testing the interaction on one's skin.
Anyway, this particular interaction is easily fixed by increasing the price (harder to pull off, but I like this at 4!) or by adding a specific exception forbidding Bragging about Braggarts.
artificer does that as well, and braggart doesn't even give you all the braggarts. that said, it does get scary with things like king's court and any time you're able to play a lot of them, where the fact that it goes into your hand compounds on itself whereas the fact that it goes on your opponent's deck doesn't because of the discard. still fun though, there are scarier cards.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2016, 05:34:24 pm »
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Thinking some more about this, I worry that the interaction with cost reducers might be a bit toxic (in particular Highway, being nonterminal).
Highway-Braggart can empty the Braggart pile in one turn, while drawing you a whole lot of cards, for example. Whether this is fun or not is a matter of tastes, and it's hard to say without testing the interaction on one's skin.
Anyway, this particular interaction is easily fixed by increasing the price (harder to pull off, but I like this at 4!) or by adding a specific exception forbidding Bragging about Braggarts.
artificer does that as well, and braggart doesn't even give you all the braggarts. that said, it does get scary with things like king's court and any time you're able to play a lot of them, where the fact that it goes into your hand compounds on itself whereas the fact that it goes on your opponent's deck doesn't because of the discard. still fun though, there are scarier cards.

Yeah, but Artificer does that only after you play 5 Highways or the equivalent, while Braggart does that after just one.
Might be problematic, might not be, but it's worth pointing out. (I'm the kind of person who wishes Messenger worked on all buys, so I'd probably like it as-is)
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2016, 11:36:55 pm »
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KILLER combo with Giant, Warrior, Rogue, Thief, Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand and Knights.

Did you consider this?

With Thief it reads:
+1 card
Gain two Golds, putting one in your hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2016, 11:45:02 pm »
+1

KILLER combo with Giant, Warrior, Rogue, Thief, Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand and Knights.

Did you consider this?

With Thief it reads:
+1 card
Gain two Golds, putting one in your hand.

It can't gain Gold unless you've played 3 Highways.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 11:45:24 pm »
+3

If cost-reducers make it too powerful, simply use "costing less than this" instead of "costing up to ".

I wasn't meaning to say that it's too strong for ; I definitely don't think it's a .
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 11:46:58 pm »
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KILLER combo with Giant, Warrior, Rogue, Thief, Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand and Knights.

Did you consider this?

With Thief it reads:
+1 card
Gain two Golds, putting one in your hand.

It can't gain Gold unless you've played 3 Highways.
Missed 'costing up to $3.' So now you can Silver flood with those treasure trashers. That doesn't seem like the best use of the card.

But it's still fairly OP with Rogue, Knights, Giants and Warriors.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2016, 11:53:20 pm »
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KILLER combo with Giant, Warrior, Rogue, Thief, Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand and Knights.

Did you consider this?

With Thief it reads:
+1 card
Gain two Golds, putting one in your hand.

It can't gain Gold unless you've played 3 Highways.
Missed 'costing up to $3.' So now you can Silver flood with those treasure trashers. That doesn't seem like the best use of the card.

But it's still fairly OP with Rogue, Knights, Giants and Warriors.

I don't think so... playing one of those cards after Braggart just means that your trashing attack will no longer actually change your opponent's deck, that power is replaced with the fact that you are gaining a card up to into hand without helping your opponent. So while "+1 card, +1 action, gain a card costing up to " by itself is crazy good, if you want that effect without helping your opponent, you have to sacrifice the regular effect of the attack. Basically, the attack is pretty much the same either way; except the added power of not being able to miss.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 04:19:35 am »
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Ruins
Its like a cross between Copper and Curse and heavily depends on the cards in the Ruins pile.

Hmm, I see you made Braggart work with Ruins by saying "card from the same pile" instead of "copy of that card".  Be careful with this, because we've been told that Empires will have piles with two different cards in it.  Depending on how that works, that could either be really neat or broken with Braggart.

You get to use Chapel in a 6 cards hand, and that's pretty good, and you also get to give your opponent a useless card (chapel).

Getting Chapel in a 6 card hand isn't really better than getting it in a 5 card hand, since Chapel can only trash up to 4 cards.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 04:29:24 am »
+1

Getting chapel in a 6 cards hand guarantees that you trash 4 cards, even if it collides with your other opening buy. If they do not collide, you'll be more likely to hit your Estates first, helping you build faster while trashing.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 12:26:43 pm »
+2

Getting chapel in a 6 cards hand guarantees that you trash 4 cards, even if it collides with your other opening buy. If they do not collide, you'll be more likely to hit your Estates first, helping you build faster while trashing.

OK, fair enough.  I'm not convinced that it's a big difference, but there's a little at least.

I think that doing this may help opponents a lot though.  An extra Chapel for them isn't useless since they can still use it.  They may even trash down faster and be able to trash the extra Chapel when they're done.  You don't open double Chapel because one is enough and the second isn't worth the opportunity cost, but I don't think getting a second one for free is bad.
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King Leon

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Re: Braggart - a friendly Sea Hag
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2016, 05:16:30 pm »
+1

I realized that you could gain a Village, which turns Braggart to: +2 Cards +2 Actions, each player gains a village ... Should I drop the +1 Card effect from Braggart?

And what about changing it to: gain a card costing less than this to avoid awkward combos with Highway/Bridge/Princess similar to Band of Misfits?

My next idea would be dropping the Attack and Looter attributes. Attack creates bad interactions with Lighthouse and Moat and Braggart does not really need Ruins (In my very first version it was a Village which could only gain Ruins, but this restriction has been dropped eventually).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 05:28:19 pm by King Leon »
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