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[Taco Lobster]

The app is free, there are no ads in-app or on the website, contrary to what someone else implied.

My mistake on the ads - it was actually Angry Birds reminding me that the Mighty Eagle was available for my son to use.  It was similar looking to the ads that pop up in Ascension, which is where my confusion came in.

The harm caused by this app is fairly indirect, but the story is much as I laid out above.  Consumer purchases app believing it is the official Dominion App.  The app itself, while rock solid from the perspective of a fan effort, is not quite up to par with a commercial release.  The consumer decides that the Dominion app isn't any good, and never investigates further to see if an official one is being released. 

[Kirian]

Ay ay ay.

I feel for Donald here, and I think Piemaster is right.  Donald has shown nothing but goodwill for all of these developers apps, including and especially isotropic.  He could have been a jerk, or he could have let RGG do all the communication, but he hasn't.  And most of the time it's gotten him nothing but hassle; sometimes it's gotten him in the spot where this particular app is, which is to say that his goodwill has been stretched and/or exploited.

Oh, sure, it might not be illegal.  It might not be for profit or anything.  But making the game designer feel exploited, no matter how the publisher feels, is going to end up with bad feelings toward the app from most of the Dominion community, because I think most of us have high regard for Donald--partially because of his goodwill to the community.

I personally have some beefs about the official app, mainly to do with lack of information--I even wrote a long screed that I then never posted after thinking better of it--but those beefs are with Jay and RGG.  When it comes to the official app, disliking what Donald tells us is killing the messenger, which is especially terrible when RGG hasn't actually given him a message to give us.  Hell, IMO Jay is treating Donald like Hamlet treated Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.

Donald's trying his best here, guys.  The decisions about apps are made by RGG and Jay.  Direct your ire there.

[^_^_^_^]

Agreed. Donald, in the future, I wouldn't even respond to flame posts/flame mail/ etc. like this. You've done your good deeds and you continue to do them. So what if someone else doesn't like how you do your job? They should see how it is as a developer of a game in a big company! Sometimes you have to be quiet.

At least RGG isn't pulling any Blizzard stunts to make us wait years for each expansion. In fact, I am astounded by the speed that RGG and Donald pull out these expansions. I never would've expected them to come in such rapid succession. Maybe 1 every 2 years but 1-2 a year?!? Amazing. Honestly, the amount of bad ideas there are out there that he probably went through himself just proves how hard his job is, and that isn't even including his treatment to DS.com and BGG.com!

edit: Also, nice post theory 

[theory]

Without DougZ, this site / community of people would not exist.  No one would be playing 6000+ games of Dominion and writing 10K+ word articles for it.  Nevertheless, the underlying game is still Dominion by Donald X.  It's not like it was an accident this game is so deep: trust me when I tell you that Donald is pretty good at this game.  Dougz probably deserves much more credit than he gets for popularizing the game, but van Cliburn is not Tchaikovsky.

What I think drives barsooma's ire, and sympathies thereto, is the threat of Isotropic being taken down for a for-pay product.  Which everyone is currently assuming will be bad, based on circumstantial evidence.  The dearth of official news only contributes to this: I think it's a wise policy, but in the absence of facts you get rumors and speculation, usually negative.

But that's a debate we've been over a thousand times.  Everyone has the incentives to see Isotropic2 succeed.  RGG caters more to the casual gamer, but surely they have some interest in replicating the competitive atmosphere of Isotropic and allowing for a site like this to prosper in a way that a BSW-esque site could not.  Or maybe not, and DominionStrategy goes down with Isotropic1.  The point is, if you assume that Isotropic2 is going to be fabulous, then most of these objections fade away.  And there's not enough reason yet to assume otherwise.

[ftl]

I was definitely excited by the news that it would work on all those different browsers. I'd been afraid that it would become a Downloadable Program and then maybe wouldn't work on Linux because such things often don't, but a new browser-based implementation sounds like it'll be really portable and work great

And it's sad that there's posters that tend to drive Donald away from posting it's really good to hear his input on the game and on the app and on everything.

Anyhow, hopefully the other app stops pretending to be official, and the official one comes out soon and is even better than isotropic 

[edit]Also, what Beyond Awesome says just below this. [/edit]

[Beyond Awesome]

I just want to say it makes me upset when I see posts that attack Donald X. He did create the games, and I think his opinions need to be respected. He has also been highly involved in the community, and that is beyond amazing. I mean, I kind of feel like some of the earlier posts would be like me going up to Christopher Noland and flaming him for not being secretive about The Dark Knight Rises. Not the best comparison, but you get my point. Donald has made an amazing game, and Nolan has made amazing movies. Both people deserve respect. And, because this is a Dominion site, I do think it is important to not treat Donald so poorly. That's all.

[Piemaster]

eing exploited, and he would be correct.  He takes a lot of time to interact with the commmunity, far beyond that which is commercially advantageous to him I would imagine.  However, as a result, he seems to have a slightly unrealistic expectation on the behaviour of randoms on the internet who will look to exploit the game for their own ends, whether those ends be financial, or otherwise. 

Ok I'm gonna say this again... what exploitation is taking place here?

I think you misunderstand the word exploitation.  It just means using for your own ends, nothing more nothing less.  I am exploiting this forum by posting here.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

When I was a younger man I spent literally thousands of dollars on Magic cards, and plenty more on other CCGs and tabletops, video games, video game subs, P&P RPGs, you name it.  Dominion seemed to me like the perfect deal at the time that I found it; no longer having nearly as much expendable income (acquired a mini-me) the CCG-type game without the "collectibility" aspect was great.  Buy the box, you get all the parts up front.  It is a great model, one that responsible adults can really get behind.

But I gotta tell you, Donald X, if it were not for finding BSW the week I bought the original Dominion Box, I probably would have bought Intrigue.  BSW taught me that this game was really, really fun online against a legion of opponents, available day or night.  Goons and Venture appearing on BSW led me back to BGG, interested enough in Dominion to look further in and decide whether to try to budget a copy of Prosperity, and instead found Isotropic.  A perfectly functioning version of the game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval.  So you lost two sales.

I want to support you, and your business people, and Comic Book World, Old Shepardsville Rd, one mile south of the Outer Loop in Louisville, KY.  I also want to make ends meet, vacation in Sunset Beach, NC maybe or go to Cedar Point or a Colt's game every year or two, and having a perfectly functioning version of your game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval, makes it very hard to justify buying your boxes of cards, or Skyram, for that matter.

I will be pleased as punch to pony up a reasonable amount for the upcoming online release.  You guys deserve it.

[Ferrouswheel]

(acquired a mini-me)

Jerk Jr Jelly?

[Mean Mr Mustard]

You could say that, yes.

[jonts26]

When I was a younger man I spent literally thousands of dollars on Magic cards, and plenty more on other CCGs and tabletops, video games, video game subs, P&P RPGs, you name it.  Dominion seemed to me like the perfect deal at the time that I found it; no longer having nearly as much expendable income (acquired a mini-me) the CCG-type game without the "collectibility" aspect was great.  Buy the box, you get all the parts up front.  It is a great model, one that responsible adults can really get behind.

But I gotta tell you, Donald X, if it were not for finding BSW the week I bought the original Dominion Box, I probably would have bought Intrigue.  BSW taught me that this game was really, really fun online against a legion of opponents, available day or night.  Goons and Venture appearing on BSW led me back to BGG, interested enough in Dominion to look further in and decide whether to try to budget a copy of Prosperity, and instead found Isotropic.  A perfectly functioning version of the game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval.  So you lost two sales.

I want to support you, and your business people, and Comic Book World, Old Shepardsville Rd, one mile south of the Outer Loop in Louisville, KY.  I also want to make ends meet, vacation in Sunset Beach, NC maybe or go to Cedar Point or a Colt's game every year or two, and having a perfectly functioning version of your game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval, makes it very hard to justify buying your boxes of cards, or Skyram, for that matter.

I will be pleased as punch to pony up a reasonable amount for the upcoming online release.  You guys deserve it.

I feel somewhat like the opposite happened to me. While I loved Dominion before I found Iso, I don't have enough people to regularly play it with IRL to justify buying all the expansions. However, I felt somewhat obligated after sinking hundreds of hours into the online game to go out an spend some disposable income on so far most of the expansions. If I pay for an online version, I probably don't feel the same pressure to gobble up expansions.

[Matt_Arnold]

DXV has been unbelievably generous. No one is within their rights to use the official artwork in their fan version. Rio Grande paid a lot of money to have that artwork made. That's a clear line in the sand.

[paddyodoors]

When I was a younger man I spent literally thousands of dollars on Magic cards, and plenty more on other CCGs and tabletops, video games, video game subs, P&P RPGs, you name it.  Dominion seemed to me like the perfect deal at the time that I found it; no longer having nearly as much expendable income (acquired a mini-me) the CCG-type game without the "collectibility" aspect was great.  Buy the box, you get all the parts up front.  It is a great model, one that responsible adults can really get behind.

But I gotta tell you, Donald X, if it were not for finding BSW the week I bought the original Dominion Box, I probably would have bought Intrigue.  BSW taught me that this game was really, really fun online against a legion of opponents, available day or night.  Goons and Venture appearing on BSW led me back to BGG, interested enough in Dominion to look further in and decide whether to try to budget a copy of Prosperity, and instead found Isotropic.  A perfectly functioning version of the game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval.  So you lost two sales.

I want to support you, and your business people, and Comic Book World, Old Shepardsville Rd, one mile south of the Outer Loop in Louisville, KY.  I also want to make ends meet, vacation in Sunset Beach, NC maybe or go to Cedar Point or a Colt's game every year or two, and having a perfectly functioning version of your game, online, not only free but with the licence holder's approval, makes it very hard to justify buying your boxes of cards, or Skyram, for that matter.

I will be pleased as punch to pony up a reasonable amount for the upcoming online release.  You guys deserve it.

(My first post -- been lurking for a bit now)

My experience with Dominion has been the exact opposite, MMM.  A family friend suggested I play the game back in September (2011), and I gave it a shot because I knew theory from the BGG Twilight Struggle forums and knew that he was a big fan of this game.  I played it and liked it.

So, I went home and checked BGG for places to play online.  I found BoardGameArena, which was fun.  And I found DS.com, which was amazing (as we all know).   But BGA was only base+intrigue, and DS.com made reference to cool cards and mechanics that I had never seen.  So I migrated over to Isotropic to try out these new and shiny things, and have been hooked ever since.

But online play doesn't appeal to those in my life who would also really really enjoy this game (my wife, my dad, my siblings, my friends).  So in the past couple of months I have scrapped up enough money to buy the base game and Intrigue, and received Seaside and Alchemy as Christmas gifts.  And I have taught the game to all of my regular gaming partners, and they all love it and want more, so I fully intend on buying the other expansions as disposable income/goodwill of gift-givers permits.

tl;dr - Isotropic directly contributed to me buying/receiving 4 Dominion boxes, with more purchases soon to follow.

Take a bow, Donald X. and DougZ! (and theory!)

[Nitsuj]

Depending on the pricing structure for the online system - will it be a monthly cost?  Or will it be a one time cost, I cannot say that I'll come on board for the online system or not.  A one-time cost, I'd strongly consider it - a recurring monthly cost - no way.

This makes for a danger for Dominion in my life, in general - because I have all the cards other than Cornucopia and the Promos.  And a big reason I bought the recent cards is because of seeing them on isotropic.  But as far as dominion hitting the game table - its chances are limited.  This is for a few reasons:

1)  Simple storage solution - Unless I can take the game with me places - it won't get played.  I've managed to squeeze everything into one box - so this problem is solved, but there is no way I can squeeze in another expansion.
2)  It is a chore to setup, once you are spoiled with Isotropic, digging out a random set of kingdom cards is a pain.  It is something I think about while I'm putting my games into my game bag for an upcoming gaming opportunity.
3)  It is a game that my more serious gamer friends, fellow SWCCG and LOTRCCG veterans, are discouraged to play against me, because I have so much more experience playing it thanks to isotropic.  They would rather play other games where the playing field is more level (like Seven Wonders or Puerto Rico).  Dominion mostly hits my game table at family functions with my brother-in-laws, but even then it is competing against games like Stone Age, Power Grid, or Agricola.

So, for these reasons, and pending closure of Isotropic for a pay site - I could see myself leaving Dominion altogether. 

I'm curious whats going to come out of all this, I've been keeping my eye on these forums just to catch a whiff of what is coming.  Lack of answers is frustrating, but I understand why things need to be close to the chest.

[WanderingWinder]

Depending on the pricing structure for the online system - will it be a monthly cost?  Or will it be a one time cost, I cannot say that I'll come on board for the online system or not.  A one-time cost, I'd strongly consider it - a recurring monthly cost - no way.

This makes for a danger for Dominion in my life, in general - because I have all the cards other than Cornucopia and the Promos.  And a big reason I bought the recent cards is because of seeing them on isotropic.  But as far as dominion hitting the game table - its chances are limited.  This is for a few reasons:

1)  Simple storage solution - Unless I can take the game with me places - it won't get played.  I've managed to squeeze everything into one box - so this problem is solved, but there is no way I can squeeze in another expansion.
2)  It is a chore to setup, once you are spoiled with Isotropic, digging out a random set of kingdom cards is a pain.  It is something I think about while I'm putting my games into my game bag for an upcoming gaming opportunity.
3)  It is a game that my more serious gamer friends, fellow SWCCG and LOTRCCG veterans, are discouraged to play against me, because I have so much more experience playing it thanks to isotropic.  They would rather play other games where the playing field is more level (like Seven Wonders or Puerto Rico).  Dominion mostly hits my game table at family functions with my brother-in-laws, but even then it is competing against games like Stone Age, Power Grid, or Agricola.

So, for these reasons, and pending closure of Isotropic for a pay site - I could see myself leaving Dominion altogether. 

I'm curious whats going to come out of all this, I've been keeping my eye on these forums just to catch a whiff of what is coming.  Lack of answers is frustrating, but I understand why things need to be close to the chest.

Out of curiosity, which incarnation of the SWCCG are you referring to?

[sherwinpr]

Depending on the pricing structure for the online system - will it be a monthly cost?  Or will it be a one time cost, I cannot say that I'll come on board for the online system or not.  A one-time cost, I'd strongly consider it - a recurring monthly cost - no way.

This makes for a danger for Dominion in my life, in general - because I have all the cards other than Cornucopia and the Promos.  And a big reason I bought the recent cards is because of seeing them on isotropic.  But as far as dominion hitting the game table - its chances are limited.  This is for a few reasons:

1)  Simple storage solution - Unless I can take the game with me places - it won't get played.  I've managed to squeeze everything into one box - so this problem is solved, but there is no way I can squeeze in another expansion.
2)  It is a chore to setup, once you are spoiled with Isotropic, digging out a random set of kingdom cards is a pain.  It is something I think about while I'm putting my games into my game bag for an upcoming gaming opportunity.
3)  It is a game that my more serious gamer friends, fellow SWCCG and LOTRCCG veterans, are discouraged to play against me, because I have so much more experience playing it thanks to isotropic.  They would rather play other games where the playing field is more level (like Seven Wonders or Puerto Rico).  Dominion mostly hits my game table at family functions with my brother-in-laws, but even then it is competing against games like Stone Age, Power Grid, or Agricola.

So, for these reasons, and pending closure of Isotropic for a pay site - I could see myself leaving Dominion altogether. 

I'm curious whats going to come out of all this, I've been keeping my eye on these forums just to catch a whiff of what is coming.  Lack of answers is frustrating, but I understand why things need to be close to the chest.

Out of curiosity, which incarnation of the SWCCG are you referring to?

My guess is the Decipher version (Star Wars Customizable Card Game), since he also mentioned and LotR game (and once again, I'm assuming he's referring to the Decipher version and not the earlier Middle Earth game, or the more recent FFG LCG), and there was a lot of cross-over between the player bases of those games since they were both Decipher products.  That, and I think the Decipher version is more likely to be referred to as serious compared to the Wizards version, and the "lesser" Decipher versions (Young Jedi and Jedi Knights).

I loved the Decipher game (and still do, I play casually with virtually cards every now and then and follow the current player developments), and I'm glad to see there are fans of that game here.  Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.  The Wizards game was interesting aspects, but I found it lacking over all.  And too much dice!

[WanderingWinder]

Depending on the pricing structure for the online system - will it be a monthly cost?  Or will it be a one time cost, I cannot say that I'll come on board for the online system or not.  A one-time cost, I'd strongly consider it - a recurring monthly cost - no way.

This makes for a danger for Dominion in my life, in general - because I have all the cards other than Cornucopia and the Promos.  And a big reason I bought the recent cards is because of seeing them on isotropic.  But as far as dominion hitting the game table - its chances are limited.  This is for a few reasons:

1)  Simple storage solution - Unless I can take the game with me places - it won't get played.  I've managed to squeeze everything into one box - so this problem is solved, but there is no way I can squeeze in another expansion.
2)  It is a chore to setup, once you are spoiled with Isotropic, digging out a random set of kingdom cards is a pain.  It is something I think about while I'm putting my games into my game bag for an upcoming gaming opportunity.
3)  It is a game that my more serious gamer friends, fellow SWCCG and LOTRCCG veterans, are discouraged to play against me, because I have so much more experience playing it thanks to isotropic.  They would rather play other games where the playing field is more level (like Seven Wonders or Puerto Rico).  Dominion mostly hits my game table at family functions with my brother-in-laws, but even then it is competing against games like Stone Age, Power Grid, or Agricola.

So, for these reasons, and pending closure of Isotropic for a pay site - I could see myself leaving Dominion altogether. 

I'm curious whats going to come out of all this, I've been keeping my eye on these forums just to catch a whiff of what is coming.  Lack of answers is frustrating, but I understand why things need to be close to the chest.

Out of curiosity, which incarnation of the SWCCG are you referring to?

My guess is the Decipher version (Star Wars Customizable Card Game), since he also mentioned and LotR game (and once again, I'm assuming he's referring to the Decipher version and not the earlier Middle Earth game, or the more recent FFG LCG), and there was a lot of cross-over between the player bases of those games since they were both Decipher products.  That, and I think the Decipher version is more likely to be referred to as serious compared to the Wizards version, and the "lesser" Decipher versions (Young Jedi and Jedi Knights).

I loved the Decipher game (and still do, I play casually with virtually cards every now and then and follow the current player developments), and I'm glad to see there are fans of that game here.  Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.  The Wizards game was interesting aspects, but I found it lacking over all.  And too much dice!

The Decipher one is the only one I played (I think I still have cards... somewhere but haven't played in like 10 years).
I saw the Wizards and it was... unappealing.

[Nitsuj]

Yes, I'm referring to the Star Wars CCG released by Decipher.  Lord of the Rings TCG was also what I was referring to.  I have not played SWCCG since 2006, the game just got too big in scope for me to keep up with.  I still visit the PC forums though, as "Nitsuj"

I find that dominion is a very popular game amongst the SWCCG crowd.  In fact, there are a lot of isotropic players that are still current SWCCG players - its cool to run into them in the lobby.

You can play LOTR online now, it looks pretty slick, and may fill the hole I'm gaining with Isotropic's pending shut-down.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr

[GendoIkari]

You can play LOTR online now, it looks pretty slick, and may fill the hole I'm gaining with Isotropic's pending shut-down.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr

You have just made me so happy!!! I played a lot of LOTR when it came out; it's the only game I've ever spent serious money on. I bought insane amounts of cards from the first 2 blocks. As time went on, and they started changing more things, especially after ROTK was over with, interest (and people to play with) died out.

[sherwinpr]

The Decipher one is the only one I played (I think I still have cards... somewhere but haven't played in like 10 years).
I saw the Wizards and it was... unappealing.
[/quote]

Thinking back, it was actually pretty bad, but the most fun we ever had with it was.  But I only tried the base set for about a month or so (and maybe one of the expansions, but I don't think so), and perhaps it became a bit stronger afterward, but I still doubt it would have appealed to me much.  The fond memories I do have of the game were when we modified the rules to allow for some multiplayer shenanigans, haha.

Yes, I'm referring to the Star Wars CCG released by Decipher.  Lord of the Rings TCG was also what I was referring to.  I have not played SWCCG since 2006, the game just got too big in scope for me to keep up with.  I still visit the PC forums though, as "Nitsuj"

I find that dominion is a very popular game amongst the SWCCG crowd.  In fact, there are a lot of isotropic players that are still current SWCCG players - its cool to run into them in the lobby.

You can play LOTR online now, it looks pretty slick, and may fill the hole I'm gaining with Isotropic's pending shut-down.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr

I've run into at least one active player on isotropic, so that's pretty neat.

Has anyone tried "The Cube", it might be a happy medium between classic SW:CCG and self-contained style Dominion play.  It's a fixed sealed environment (with some virtual cards) for Star Wars.  I built a Cube and had a lot of fun with it with friends who used to play the game.

[barsooma]

Crossposting this from BGG:

riogames wrote:
Just to clarify things on this issue if I can at this point. Over the past two years, RGG has been approached by a number of people asking to do a "casual" and free app for Dominion. In such cases, we have usually said yes with the stipulation that once the "official" Dominion app became available that the free app would be removed. Cory is one of those who asked and, as with others, we gave him permission to develop a free Dominion app, which I understand he has finished. I admit some surprise as it has been months since we last spoke and I had assumed he had decided not to complete the app. In any case, as long as it is free, it is allowed, at least for a few weeks until the licensed app becomes available.

I am sorry if there has been any confusion regarding this.

Thanks

Jay
RGG

[pst]

I feel somewhat like the opposite happened to me. While I loved Dominion before I found Iso, I don't have enough people to regularly play it with IRL to justify buying all the expansions. However, I felt somewhat obligated after sinking hundreds of hours into the online game to go out an spend some disposable income on so far most of the expansions. If I pay for an online version, I probably don't feel the same pressure to gobble up expansions.

Similar for me. I had Dominion and played it once in a while. After discovering it for real on Isotropic I bought all expansions in stock last year for myself, as well as an extra Cornucopia for friends I sometimes play with so as to get more variation when playing with them. None of that would have happened without Isotropic (and of course also not without Dominion being such a good game).

The sets I bought for myself last year are still wrapped in plastic, but I like having them.

[cprloe]

The Touch Arcade forums are listing the official Dominion Iphone app as being released later this week.  Has anyone seen confirmation of that from Rio Grande Games?

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=118476

[blueblimp]

The Touch Arcade forums are listing the official Dominion Iphone app as being released later this week.  Has anyone seen confirmation of that from Rio Grande Games?

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=118476

Interesting find. So maybe the isotropocalypse is this week.

[DrHades]

Let's just hope the app would be great and that Iso going down doesn't mean DominionStrategy going down