Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 27  All

Author Topic: Creating Dominion  (Read 94436 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5586
  • Respect: +3593
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #575 on: August 30, 2016, 04:08:17 pm »
+1

When I heard about the switch, I said 'caveat emptor' and went on with my life.

I suppose Latin is one of those efficient languages.

Tu sunt rectam.

"You bet your ass" ??

That is "Vos bet asinus."
Logged
3/4ths retired

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7092
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9366
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #576 on: August 30, 2016, 04:09:17 pm »
0

I find myself sympathizing with chrisjwmartin more. I did not read every post of his but at least the ones that Donald replied to.

The difference, of course, is that you didn't run in with a ton of inflammatory language. :)

Quote
but why can he not spare the same amount of money to reimburse those people that have bought into Goko or MF's product (discounted by the expected subscription price times number of months used?)

Man, I really don't want that to happen, I would owe Donald like $90 under that schema!

(This is one of the problems with your line of reasoning; there's no way to make it "fair" to everyone.)
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7092
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9366
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #577 on: August 30, 2016, 04:10:15 pm »
+2

When I heard about the switch, I said 'caveat emptor' and went on with my life.

I suppose Latin is one of those efficient languages.

Tu sunt rectam.

"You bet your ass" ??

That is "Vos bet asinus."

"The people called Romanes, they go the house?!"
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7829
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #578 on: August 30, 2016, 04:36:54 pm »
0

I find myself sympathizing with chrisjwmartin more. I did not read every post of his but at least the ones that Donald replied to.

The difference, of course, is that you didn't run in with a ton of inflammatory language. :)

Quote
but why can he not spare the same amount of money to reimburse those people that have bought into Goko or MF's product (discounted by the expected subscription price times number of months used?)

Man, I really don't want that to happen, I would owe Donald like $90 under that schema!

(This is one of the problems with your line of reasoning; there's no way to make it "fair" to everyone.)

Would you really consider it unfair if someone that spent ~$100 the day before the announcement that Making Fun wouldn't get the contract renewed got some difference refunded (or excess free time added on) based on their possible playtime, while you didn't receive anything beyond what is already proposed?  I personally wouldn't care.

(Not arguing here that this is what should be done.)
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7896
  • Respect: +8715
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #579 on: August 30, 2016, 04:37:57 pm »
+1

From a quantitative perspective also, I think Donald is certainly competitive enough to be hired as a software engineer. For a senior position say he can make 200K a year at that job.

Whaa? Where does that number come from? Without moving into management type roles, or perhaps one some super-rare technologies for which there's only a handful of experts in that field, it's more like $125K tops. The other exception might be working as a consultant for hourly rates, in which case you might get close to 200K (though with no benefits or anything).
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7896
  • Respect: +8715
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #580 on: August 30, 2016, 04:41:27 pm »
0

I don't know. He isn't very clear. If he is referring to a polished product, then he is definitely crazy. I understood his comment to say he had a basic game engine coded with ~10 cards and a simplistic 2D UI in under 40 hours. That seems somewhat reasonable to me. I've dabbled with digitizing games for a local play environment, and put a basic Dominion engine (with very limited UI) together in 20-30 hours.

Well true, my Temporum site was less than 40 hours of work. But that's 100% client side. I'd imagine that dealing with being able to connect players with each other across the internet to find and play games, with sever-side commands and a database and such would put that well beyond. If he meant a basic single-player engine, then sure.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5284
  • Respect: +2722
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #581 on: August 30, 2016, 04:46:39 pm »
0

I really want someone to make anarchical make deckbuilding games and play them with other people online platform full of fan cards and modding.  Would be interesting to see what happened to the genre.

If it's a one man show I'll probably prefer Donald's one man show to redditman's
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5353
  • Respect: +21694
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #582 on: August 30, 2016, 05:29:50 pm »
+5

It is all about passion. He clearly stated that he can afford it; he also said that he is willing to work on projects without obvious income down the road. It really sounds a bit lame, trying to explain that oops sorry, we did not foresee this and that? Or, yeah, I did endorse goko back in the days, but what else do you expect me to do?
I did not clearly state that that I can afford it, and cannot afford it. As SCSN notes, if it was as easy as forking over $50K, we would have. We thought it would be that easy and planned to do so. We were even willing to pay twice the amount we'd taken in, turning every dollar gained into a dollar lost. Then we found out the actual numbers.

I do not see what is lame about "my contract just lets RGG sub-license digital Dominion to other companies and gives me half of what he gets for it, and yet due to how that played out I am giving up some amount future profits to give people a year of online Dominion." But what have I done for you lately, right?

My other digital game is Kingdom Builder. Queen didn't ask me to playtest it or make campaigns or whatever, so I haven't had any involvement with it. If people were mad about the KB game and wanted money back beyond what I got, do I owe them there, for having been so foolish as to have a contract that let someone make digital versions of my game? If not, what's the difference? The amount of work I foolishly did for the online Dominion people?
Logged

timchen

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 704
  • Shuffle iT Username: allfail
  • Respect: +233
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #583 on: August 30, 2016, 06:33:55 pm »
0

Whaa? Where does that number come from? Without moving into management type roles, or perhaps one some super-rare technologies for which there's only a handful of experts in that field, it's more like $125K tops. The other exception might be working as a consultant for hourly rates, in which case you might get close to 200K (though with no benefits or anything).
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Senior-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,31.htm

Stats on the web aside, my friends in tech companies like google, facebook, and apple are all considering buying houses in the bay area, with a single income for the family mostly. I figure they need to earn 200K+ in order to do that.

I did not clearly state that that I can afford it, and cannot afford it. As SCSN notes, if it was as easy as forking over $50K, we would have. We thought it would be that easy and planned to do so. We were even willing to pay twice the amount we'd taken in, turning every dollar gained into a dollar lost. Then we found out the actual numbers.

I do not see what is lame about "my contract just lets RGG sub-license digital Dominion to other companies and gives me half of what he gets for it, and yet due to how that played out I am giving up some amount future profits to give people a year of online Dominion." But what have I done for you lately, right?

My other digital game is Kingdom Builder. Queen didn't ask me to playtest it or make campaigns or whatever, so I haven't had any involvement with it. If people were mad about the KB game and wanted money back beyond what I got, do I owe them there, for having been so foolish as to have a contract that let someone make digital versions of my game? If not, what's the difference? The amount of work I foolishly did for the online Dominion people?
I must have misunderstood. When you said you don't need to work for a living I thought that must mean a couple of million in the bank!

It's all about perspective. I certainly do think it is a nice gesture. But then I did not buy online dominion.
And what he was complaining is true. From a end customer point of view, I can accept that the company can go down and stop providing service; but I would expect that if it is at the request of the publisher, then the publisher should take care of the current customer. at least that should be the spirit when we started with Goko, when you endorse the product with this one time sale concept.

Seriously I think it should be entirely fine and will not get anyone pissed, using the current scheme, and have someone unsatisfied dealt with on a individual basis. Basically the complicated situation is that one might argue he thought he bought the thing for good and therefore did not get the full value out from it as if he bought it as a subscription. There should be server data we can mine and see how many games played since when and decide what amount should be refunded etc.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5353
  • Respect: +21694
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #584 on: August 30, 2016, 07:12:56 pm »
+5

And what he was complaining is true. From a end customer point of view, I can accept that the company can go down and stop providing service; but I would expect that if it is at the request of the publisher, then the publisher should take care of the current customer. at least that should be the spirit when we started with Goko, when you endorse the product with this one time sale concept.
It's not "at the request of the publisher," it's "their contract didn't last forever." I would think the entity selling you the product is the entity responsible for telling you just what they're selling you, any built-in limits. [But of course they were perfectly clear, they just sold Gokoins and customers got to spend them.]

I don't mind someone complaining about what value they are getting from what they bought from those companies. Complain to those companies please. I don't know how you will manage it with Funsockets/Goko, but MF has customer service.

I always think of the doll with nipples (I'm thinking about it right now). This is tangential but meaningful to me. Hobby Japan has the Japanese sub-license for Dominion. They made a doll with nipples. They didn't ask for permission from RGG first (I do not think they would have gotten it). How could I have stopped that doll from existing? By not getting Dominion published.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7829
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #585 on: August 30, 2016, 07:54:37 pm »
+4

And what he was complaining is true. From a end customer point of view, I can accept that the company can go down and stop providing service; but I would expect that if it is at the request of the publisher, then the publisher should take care of the current customer. at least that should be the spirit when we started with Goko, when you endorse the product with this one time sale concept.
It's not "at the request of the publisher," it's "their contract didn't last forever." I would think the entity selling you the product is the entity responsible for telling you just what they're selling you, any built-in limits. [But of course they were perfectly clear, they just sold Gokoins and customers got to spend them.]

I don't mind someone complaining about what value they are getting from what they bought from those companies. Complain to those companies please. I don't know how you will manage it with Funsockets/Goko, but MF has customer service.

I always think of the doll with nipples (I'm thinking about it right now). This is tangential but meaningful to me. Hobby Japan has the Japanese sub-license for Dominion. They made a doll with nipples. They didn't ask for permission from RGG first (I do not think they would have gotten it). How could I have stopped that doll from existing? By not getting Dominion published.

I will henceforth direct all nipple-related complaints to you.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5284
  • Respect: +2722
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #586 on: August 30, 2016, 11:43:34 pm »
+2

I am surprised by the extent to which the nipple doll is helpful in explaining how the blame games should be played.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1270
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1303
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #587 on: August 31, 2016, 12:54:06 am »
+1

I just think we all need to learn from Donald X and incorporate the nipple doll more into our conversation here on the forum
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

silby

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +23
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #588 on: August 31, 2016, 11:18:34 am »
+5

I for one am looking forward to paying the rock-bottom bargain price of $3 a month to play Dominion on the internet.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5284
  • Respect: +2722
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #589 on: August 31, 2016, 11:44:37 am »
+1

It used to be zero.  Im a jaded freeloader tiers worse than these new school whiners. 
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7829
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #590 on: August 31, 2016, 11:52:39 am »
0

It used to be zero.  Im a jaded freeloader tiers worse than these new school whiners.

You think animations just grow on trees?!
Logged

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1270
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1303
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #591 on: August 31, 2016, 11:59:47 am »
0

[Insert reference to isotropic dominion here]
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7829
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #592 on: August 31, 2016, 12:04:41 pm »
0

[Insert reference to isotropic dominion here]

[Insert upvote here]
Logged

rrenaud

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 987
  • Uncivilized Barbarian of Statistics
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
    • CouncilRoom
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #593 on: August 31, 2016, 01:26:11 pm »
+1

From a quantitative perspective also, I think Donald is certainly competitive enough to be hired as a software engineer. For a senior position say he can make 200K a year at that job.

Whaa? Where does that number come from? Without moving into management type roles, or perhaps one some super-rare technologies for which there's only a handful of experts in that field, it's more like $125K tops. The other exception might be working as a consultant for hourly rates, in which case you might get close to 200K (though with no benefits or anything).

200k/year is low, not high.  I'd say total compensation for a software engineer their first year out of undergrad at Google or FB in the bay area would be around $160k/year.

I personally think it's fine for DVX to provide nothing more than a "sorry, I overpromised, but I honestly believed those things at the time."  And that Stef/SCSN give away any kind of grand-fathered subscription is extremely generous.  AFAICT, they don't get anything for that.

All the while, I am still pretty sympathic to chris martin.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7065
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9768
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #594 on: August 31, 2016, 01:48:49 pm »
+8

From a quantitative perspective also, I think Donald is certainly competitive enough to be hired as a software engineer. For a senior position say he can make 200K a year at that job.

Whaa? Where does that number come from? Without moving into management type roles, or perhaps one some super-rare technologies for which there's only a handful of experts in that field, it's more like $125K tops. The other exception might be working as a consultant for hourly rates, in which case you might get close to 200K (though with no benefits or anything).

200k/year is low, not high.  I'd say total compensation for a software engineer their first year out of undergrad at Google or FB in the bay area would be around $160k/year.

I personally think it's fine for DVX to provide nothing more than a "sorry, I overpromised, but I honestly believed those things at the time."  And that Stef/SCSN give away any kind of grand-fathered subscription is extremely generous.  AFAICT, they don't get anything for that.

All the while, I am still pretty sympathic to chris martin.

That "at Google or FB" is an enormous qualifier. Let's not pretend that's anywhere near the norm for a software engineer at a non-Silicon Valley job.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7092
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9366
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #595 on: August 31, 2016, 02:06:02 pm »
+3

200k/year is low, not high.  I'd say total compensation for a software engineer their first year out of undergrad at Google or FB in the bay area would be around $160k/year.

And on that salary, they can afford to rent someone's closet!
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Infthitbox

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
  • Respect: +439
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #596 on: August 31, 2016, 03:13:05 pm »
0

Re: compensation (in any field)

location, location, location
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5353
  • Respect: +21694
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #597 on: August 31, 2016, 03:57:39 pm »
+9

I personally think it's fine for DVX to provide nothing more than a "sorry, I overpromised, but I honestly believed those things at the time."  And that Stef/SCSN give away any kind of grand-fathered subscription is extremely generous.  AFAICT, they don't get anything for that.
The contract doesn't subdivide up "you get this in exchange for this," but in effect we offered something in exchange for that year, again probably more than we ever got from online Dominion. I don't think that's been unclear in my previous posts but maybe it has. I am not trying to pat myself on the back here; I am the one getting told how awful I am so I have to cling to these facts.

Also it's DXV, errnaud.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5586
  • Respect: +3593
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #598 on: August 31, 2016, 04:01:15 pm »
+1

Also it's DXV, errnaud.

Brilliant triple play on words. You use the phrase 'err', while simultaneously also changing his name up like he accidentally did to you. Bonus internet points.
Logged
3/4ths retired

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7896
  • Respect: +8715
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #599 on: August 31, 2016, 04:02:35 pm »
+3

From a quantitative perspective also, I think Donald is certainly competitive enough to be hired as a software engineer. For a senior position say he can make 200K a year at that job.

Whaa? Where does that number come from? Without moving into management type roles, or perhaps one some super-rare technologies for which there's only a handful of experts in that field, it's more like $125K tops. The other exception might be working as a consultant for hourly rates, in which case you might get close to 200K (though with no benefits or anything).

200k/year is low, not high.  I'd say total compensation for a software engineer their first year out of undergrad at Google or FB in the bay area would be around $160k/year.

I personally think it's fine for DVX to provide nothing more than a "sorry, I overpromised, but I honestly believed those things at the time."  And that Stef/SCSN give away any kind of grand-fathered subscription is extremely generous.  AFAICT, they don't get anything for that.

All the while, I am still pretty sympathic to chris martin.

Even for Google, this sounds really wrong. According to some searching...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Google,_Inc./Salary

Software Engineers for Google.com make well under $200k. This isn't broken down by location though. But still, I've seen other calculators that ask if it is Bay Area or not, and it adds some for Bay Area, but not nearly that amount of a change.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 27  All
 

Page created in 0.103 seconds with 21 queries.