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Author Topic: Creating Dominion  (Read 207101 times)

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Chris is me

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #525 on: August 29, 2016, 10:10:01 am »
+6

What's the lowest value you could possibly have gotten with the compromise?

Let's assume the absolute worst case scenario: you bought every expansion, all at once, a day before they unveiled the subscription model on MF's client. You hadn't heard this announcement in like February or whatever, and that's reasonable, it isn't easy to find if you aren't into Dominion a lot (though I mean, dropping $110 on a game you don't Google quickly first, strange). Let's then say, you are taking the free year online, because offline forever is boundless value and we can't quantify that.

So on, June 30th? You pay $110, and you get 18 months of Dominion Online. This is $6.11 a month. It's suspected, but not confirmed, that $3 a month is the buy everything subscription price. Man if that goes up to $5 a month won't you have some serious egg on your face, quibbling over $1.11 a month. But anyway.

A more realistic case: You payed $100 in February, right before the announcement, then didn't buy Adventures, because what's the point or something. That's $100 for 22 months, $4.50 a month. Still like 50% more than the pure value if Shuffle IT existed the day of the announcement and charged the price they wanted immediately, but whatever.

Anyhow, my point here is, you've got reason to be upset, sunk costs and all that, but dude, it isn't that much money, and if you hate them so much for doing this, you can go ahead and only play the game for another 16 months for "free" and then not continue. Wow, it's really hard to be mad at some people while playing a game they didn't have a legal obligation to give you for 16 months but chose to anyway to make it suck just a little bit less.

But really dude, is like, maybe $40 ish of value lost over the course of a year and a half really anything to write home about? Like I subscribe to two different music streaming services for $10/month because I can't decide which one I like better. Any lost value for me I'm not going to notice. I know some people have less financial stability than others, which would be a very good point if this money wasn't already spent and gone.

If January 2018 comes, and you're still upset about this, and you don't think the new client is enough of an improvement for it to be worth it, then cancel your account. What's the big deal?
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Donald X.

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #526 on: August 29, 2016, 01:29:08 pm »
+15

Here is another thing, I am full of things.

I like to be Super Helpful Guy. Someone asks a question, I answer it; they misunderstand something, I set them straight. It's good times.

But when they're asking about online Dominion, or misunderstanding something there, if anyone else answers/corrects, they're being helpful, but if I do, it looks like a promise. Like I personally will cause whatever it is to happen, because I'm me.

And I mean obv. that's awful. I can't control those companies; I don't even have a contract with them, in case that information, that seems so worthless or significant depending on who you are, wasn't clear. So why would I ever answer those questions or correct those misunderstandings. Funsockets/Goko and Making Fun can handle their own customer relations, answer the questions they need answered, correct the misunderstandings they care about. It's not like I'm good at customer relations either.

And yet there I am continuing to do it yesterday. Saying how ShuffleIT will give people a year of the new service, or the offline sets.

I don't know if ShuffleIT will give anyone anything ever. Maybe they'll run off to Argentina on January 1st. It has to be up to them to tell people what people can expect from them, answer the questions, correct the misunderstandings, or not. For sure I don't want anyone to think that I can somehow guarantee this stuff that these other people are doing. All I can do is hope for the best, like anyone.

So I mean, a valuable lesson I still need to try to learn.

And uh, when someone says, that greedy Donald X., well you know it does not cut me to the core. It's sufficiently laughable that I can brush it off. But this notion that maybe my incompetence is hurting Dominion fans, well I can't brush that off. Maybe I really suck that hard. And it's really unhealthy to sit around thinking, do I suck that hard? So I can't keep having this conversation. I'm just going to blindly hope I don't actually suck that hard, like some kind of human being.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #527 on: August 29, 2016, 01:35:32 pm »
+7

Here is another thing, I am full of things.

I like to be Super Helpful Guy. Someone asks a question, I answer it; they misunderstand something, I set them straight. It's good times.

But when they're asking about online Dominion, or misunderstanding something there, if anyone else answers/corrects, they're being helpful, but if I do, it looks like a promise. Like I personally will cause whatever it is to happen, because I'm me.

And I mean obv. that's awful. I can't control those companies; I don't even have a contract with them, in case that information, that seems so worthless or significant depending on who you are, wasn't clear. So why would I ever answer those questions or correct those misunderstandings. Funsockets/Goko and Making Fun can handle their own customer relations, answer the questions they need answered, correct the misunderstandings they care about. It's not like I'm good at customer relations either.

And yet there I am continuing to do it yesterday. Saying how ShuffleIT will give people a year of the new service, or the offline sets.

I don't know if ShuffleIT will give anyone anything ever. Maybe they'll run off to Argentina on January 1st. It has to be up to them to tell people what people can expect from them, answer the questions, correct the misunderstandings, or not. For sure I don't want anyone to think that I can somehow guarantee this stuff that these other people are doing. All I can do is hope for the best, like anyone.

So I mean, a valuable lesson I still need to try to learn.

And uh, when someone says, that greedy Donald X., well you know it does not cut me to the core. It's sufficiently laughable that I can brush it off. But this notion that maybe my incompetence is hurting Dominion fans, well I can't brush that off. Maybe I really suck that hard. And it's really unhealthy to sit around thinking, do I suck that hard? So I can't keep having this conversation. I'm just going to blindly hope I don't actually suck that hard, like some kind of human being.

I suggest creating a poll about how hard you suck.  Then you won't have to keep wondering. 
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #528 on: August 29, 2016, 02:05:59 pm »
+2

I think everyone should just stop responding. As Seprix noted, he's made up his mind and nothing anyone says will change it
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Seprix

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #529 on: August 29, 2016, 02:19:52 pm »
+6

I suggest creating a poll about how hard you suck.  Then you won't have to keep wondering.

No, we need a bracket.

Does Donald X. Suck?

[1] No
[4] Yes

[2] Kind of
[3] A little bit
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #530 on: August 29, 2016, 02:30:48 pm »
+8

I suggest creating a poll about how hard you suck.  Then you won't have to keep wondering.

No, we need a bracket.

Does Donald X. Suck?

[1] No
[4] Yes

[2] Kind of
[3] A little bit


Let's not be hasty.  We need a bracket to determine if it should be a poll or a bracket.

How Should we Determine If Donald X. Sucks?

[1] Poll
[2] Bracket


Or, wait.. should this be a poll instead?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #531 on: August 29, 2016, 02:32:10 pm »
0

But maybe sucking is a continuum.  We could use a slider so people could choose the suck factor over an interval.
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Seprix

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #532 on: August 29, 2016, 02:34:56 pm »
+1

I suggest creating a poll about how hard you suck.  Then you won't have to keep wondering.

No, we need a bracket.

Does Donald X. Suck?

[1] No
[4] Yes

[2] Kind of
[3] A little bit


Let's not be hasty.  We need a bracket to determine if it should be a poll or a bracket.

How Should we Determine If Donald X. Sucks?

[1] Poll
[2] Bracket


Or, wait.. should this be a poll instead?

I think we should determine by bracket whether or not the determination of Donald X. sucking should be done by poll or bracket.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #533 on: August 29, 2016, 02:39:55 pm »
+2

I have no knowledge on the sucking skills of Donald, so I am withholding judgement.
I like what he does for the dominion community, though.
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SCSN

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #534 on: August 29, 2016, 02:42:49 pm »
+20

Donald has gone above and beyond the call of duty to clarify the history of online Dominion, so let's extinguish the heated exchange with a splash of gratitude.

Genuine questions about the future (and past) of online Dominion are still welcome, as long as they are free from the presumption that anyone is acting in bad faith. Unless of course that anyone is me, and the accusation is that I'm only in it for the Silvers, to which I'd respond: guilty as charged!
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Darth Vader

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #535 on: August 29, 2016, 02:59:21 pm »
+4

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jsh357

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #536 on: August 29, 2016, 03:00:27 pm »
+1

Donald has gone above and beyond the call of duty to clarify the history of online Dominion, so let's extinguish the heated exchange with a splash of gratitude.

Unless of course that anyone is me, and the accusation is that I'm only in it for the Silvers, to which I'd respond: guilty as charged!

*Sniff* We all knew you'd come around one day.
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Awaclus

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #537 on: August 29, 2016, 03:04:02 pm »
+10

feel like the worst scum ever and kill myself.

Why not feel like the best scum ever and kill town PRs?
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Seprix

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #538 on: August 29, 2016, 03:10:39 pm »
+1

I'm only in it for the Silvers, to which I'd respond: guilty as charged!

If you join the Dominion Discord server, you'll be made a Mod, which are officially called Silver-Lovers. Clearly, this is something you would be interested in.

https://discord.gg/CaUbK
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sudgy

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #539 on: August 29, 2016, 03:26:56 pm »
+1

Alright, here's a legitimate question that might have already been answered but I don't want to wade through several pages:

Will there be a way to make monthly payments automatically once you open the game?  I tend to play in spurts, and I might not play for months then randomly feel like playing again.  It would be nice if I didn't have to go through a whole paying process whenever I feel like playing after a while.
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SCSN

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #540 on: August 29, 2016, 03:36:37 pm »
+4

Alright, here's a legitimate question that might have already been answered but I don't want to wade through several pages:

Will there be a way to make monthly payments automatically once you open the game?  I tend to play in spurts, and I might not play for months then randomly feel like playing again.  It would be nice if I didn't have to go through a whole paying process whenever I feel like playing after a while.

Certainly not by default, but we could look into offering it as an option.
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Jacob marley

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #541 on: August 29, 2016, 03:36:45 pm »
+2

Donald has gone above and beyond the call of duty to clarify the history of online Dominion, so let's extinguish the heated exchange with a splash of gratitude.

Genuine questions about the future (and past) of online Dominion are still welcome, as long as they are free from the presumption that anyone is acting in bad faith. Unless of course that anyone is me, and the accusation is that I'm only in it for the Silvers, to which I'd respond: guilty as charged!

But still less guilty than Stef who's in it for the Golds.   ;)
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #542 on: August 29, 2016, 05:12:27 pm »
0

I thought he was in it for the platinum.
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #543 on: August 29, 2016, 05:55:21 pm »
+4

I think the banned user just kind of lost out in a good of the many>rights of the few situation.  There's probably a handful of people along with him who like Dominion just barely enough that it's ideal for them to keep enjoying it through Goko for free.  But for most people, including people who haven't even played yet, the rebirth will be worthwhile, re-buy notwithstanding.  Donald surveyed people based on their involvement and interest in Dominion, not their financial investment, which is the total opposite of the greed of which Donald was accused.  I would accuse Donald of lots of things but greed is not one of them.  I'm pretty sure ShuffleIT is the utilitarian answer.  There's probably a few schools of philosophical thought that would deem ShuffleIT wrong.  But you can argue that without assigning vices to individual people in a personal way. 

I don't have any sets, but I'm pretty sure if I had all the sets I'd still want the game wiped and rebuilt.  I'd want my Hearthstone collection wiped and rebuilt if that was necessary for them to remove hero powers since I think the game is slightly better without them included.  Generally if you are invested in something enough and like something up the financial investment is going to be secondary to other forms of investment.  Especially with hobby/entertainment stuff that is a totally optional part of your life.
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werothegreat

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #544 on: August 29, 2016, 08:45:11 pm »
+8

I think the reason people feel miffed about a subscription is because they're used to one of three things happening:

1) Pay once for a game, and always have it (basically most things on Steam)
2) Subscribe to a game, and have access to enormous loads of content that is constantly updated (MMORPGs)
3) Play for free, and occasionally pay for "hats" (online CCGs, MOBAs)

1 works if you're doing a one-off single-player game, or if you're a large enough company that you can support multiplayer because you're constantly pumping out new games.

2 works if have something like WoW where the monthly cost is justified with having so much content, updated regularly.

3 works if you're constantly releasing new content - in fact, it's expected, like with Hearthstone and MTG.

People are probably assuming that Dominion should either be 1 (because of similar board game adaptations like Small World and Ascension doing that) or 3 (because of online card games like Hearthstone doing that).  The problem comes in thusly: there's too much of a hardcore multiplayer, competitive scene to really justify 1 - there probably won't be enough new players coming in to justify server costs - and there's not enough new content to justify 3 - Donald probably isn't going to be rattling off expansions forever, and even if he did, they'd most likely be much less frequent than the 3-4 expansions a year most CCGs do.  So we're stuck with 2, for what many people are probably assuming is a lot less content than something like WoW.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #545 on: August 29, 2016, 10:20:58 pm »
0

The thing about number one, pay once for a game, is that a lot of online games get pulled at some point and people can never play them again, at least online against other people.
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Dingan

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #546 on: August 30, 2016, 02:11:28 am »
0

(I figured this would be the best place to put in a new feature request. Also, sorry but I don't care to read the ~1 GB of text already in this thread, so if this has already been mentioned, then sorry.)

A painpoint of the current implementation for me is that often times I want to chat with my opponent about a game that we just finished, and also start searching for a new game/opponent.  I def don't want to start a new game whilst still a different game, but would be kind of cool to start a new game whilst still in the chat of a different game.  Not sure how exactly to make an interface for that.  Just throwing it out there.  Carry on..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 02:12:55 am by Dingan »
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SCSN

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #547 on: August 30, 2016, 02:12:43 am »
+2

people feel miffed about a subscription

I don't feel this is true. Chris felt miffed about eventually having to pay again rather than about any particular model, which is understandable but in the end just one of those unfortunate facts of life.

In general some people have stated they dislike subscriptions, whereas others have been equally positive. Overall the range of responses has been about what I'd expect from any payment model that isn't completely outlandish (if anything I expected a bit more negativity), so it doesn't have me worried. If it turns out to be a miserable failure we can always reevaluate.
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #548 on: August 30, 2016, 03:07:39 am »
+1

...any payment model that isn't completely outlandish...

Pay 0.1 cents each time you buy or gain a card!
Playing is free, but the ability to mute people in chat is $20 a month!

Build and upgrade a thriving fortress to mine DominionBux that you can use to play, but be careful, other players can attack your fortress and steal your DominionBux!
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #549 on: August 30, 2016, 05:45:41 am »
+1

Runway
Event, 5 Stefcoins

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