Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 27  All

Author Topic: Creating Dominion  (Read 207027 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #275 on: April 20, 2016, 01:03:35 am »
+3

I think $3 v. $10 a month for a MMO makes sense here thogh. An MMO requires a lot more programming and servers to maintain. Not so much with Dominion. I'm also not sure that system that allows people to spend money on cosmetics would bring in much revenue unless the game really took off online.

By the way, I don't think we should criticize people who don't want to pay for the subscription. However, I do think though we should all give the new client a chance. I'm not saying spend money, but for those of us who bought all the expansions, we get to play with everything we own for a full-year. After that, if you're not happy or don't want to pay for the product, then don't subscribe.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 01:06:44 am by Beyond Awesome »
Logged

SCSN

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #276 on: April 20, 2016, 02:28:02 am »
+19

I care only about the end sum. I would've paid around 150€ for the COMPLETE online implementation

If you're willing to pay €150 upfront for a subscription lasting for the duration of our company suplying online Dominion, I guess that's something we could consider offering you. Note that we can't offer you lifetime because we don't have a lifetime contract.
Logged

Aleimon Thimble

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
  • Shuffle iT Username: Aleimon Thimble
  • Respect: +711
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #277 on: April 20, 2016, 03:08:28 am »
0

I'm sure if you offer $1000 upfront, you might be able to get a lifetime subscription to Dominion.

But only if your remaining life expectancy is less than 28 years.
Logged
[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Respect: +2854
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #278 on: April 20, 2016, 06:32:03 am »
+1

I'm sure if you offer $1000 upfront, you might be able to get a lifetime subscription to Dominion.

But only if your remaining life expectancy is less than 28 years.

More than that, you need to account for inflation too.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #279 on: April 20, 2016, 06:39:52 am »
+1

What is the hardest challenge implementing Dominion?

Is it Black Market, Possession, something else?
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #280 on: April 20, 2016, 06:58:42 am »
+12

What is the hardest challenge implementing Dominion?

Is it Black Market, Possession, something else?

Finding a payment model that satisfies everybody.  ;)
Logged

-Stef-

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
  • Respect: +4419
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #281 on: April 20, 2016, 07:04:19 am »
+14

What is the hardest challenge implementing Dominion?

Is it Black Market, Possession, something else?

Black Market and Possession are remarkably easy for the game engine.
Possessions biggest problem is a good interface, assuming you already have the when-would-gain for Trader.

By far the trickiest things are cards pretending to be other cards (Inheritance, Band of Misfits).
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1150
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1843
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #282 on: April 20, 2016, 07:48:30 am »
+1

I guess Possession would have been way more problematic if it was a new card: you implemented everything, and then whoops - you need to add this bad boy too somehow.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #283 on: April 20, 2016, 07:55:13 am »
0

Oh wow, uh, I wasn't expecting this. Do you have a system in mind for getting feedback during development? Like, are Donald and/or Jay going to be seeing early builds. Will there be a Beta?

Also, do you have plans to include any other people in the development process?

This monthly subscription thing is great though. It's unfortunate that people paid for the expansions on Goko/MF thinking that they would be able to use those expansions to the end of their days, but really the only problem here is that Goko was selling expansions like that in the first place. 3€ a month for all the expansions or 2€ for half of them is an extremely reasonable price to pay, and maybe some months you can do without the expansions if you're not planning to play that much.

This is what I'm thinking when it comes to the pricing model. Under this model, the $45 I paid Goko would have been worth over a year of Dominion Online service. As it turns out, it is worth a year of this new service because I can choose to have a free year of service for having the sets on Goko/MF. The $90 asked by MF would be worth double that. Realistically, I might not even have the time to play Dominion seriously every month and could skip those months.

I can understand people being put off by the subscription model though. It's intimidating a bit for some reason. I myself haven't payed for any subscription-based games before.

It's going to feel weird having both Dominion Online and Dominion Offline though. What's the story with single player campaigns, or having a series of recommended sets against computer opponents as an equivalent?

Edit: yeah apparently I missed this announcement when it came out a week ago. I seriously only found out about this now.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 07:58:22 am by markusin »
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #284 on: April 20, 2016, 10:25:22 am »
+1

I forgot to say, congratulations on getting the contract for Dominion Online 2017!
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #285 on: April 20, 2016, 12:02:00 pm »
0

My suggestions for free online would be: base set + a set of 'standard' kingdoms (the recommended one from zxpansions?) that people can play.

Because you'll get tired of them, but it will leave you wanting more.

While I like your idea, I think I'd prefer free players to have base + about 10 other cards that change every week. That way you can still play a good amount and variety of free games without the "demo" feeling, if you don't play many games per week.
Keeping a free and satisfied player base is good, because if they ever get tired, you'll lose a potential customer. They shouldn't get tired, they should just want more. :)

10 is probably too much (a lot of players might not want to learn 10 new cards every week, and 10 cards already add enough variety that it would lead to fewer people actually buying the expansions). 1-3 would be fine.

I'm afraid that 1-2 would be too little. If I play say 10 random games per week, it's more likely than not that I won't even see those cards.
10 was probably too generous, but I wouldn't go below 3.

Thinking about it some more, maybe it would also be worthwhile to make an "online base set" to have people play for free instead of physical Base set. Swapping out the Feasts and Spies and whatnot for something that makes better publicity to Dominion in general.
(not that they are bad cards, but you know what I mean)

It's Donald's call there, I guess.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:04:28 pm by Accatitippi »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12847
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #286 on: April 20, 2016, 12:42:56 pm »
+1

If I play say 10 random games per week, it's more likely than not that I won't even see those cards.

If there is 1 extra card and you play 2 random games every week, it's more likely than not that you will play at least one game with that card. If you play 10 random games, the odds that you won't even see that one card from an expansion are lower than 5%.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #287 on: April 20, 2016, 01:47:38 pm »
+1

If I play say 10 random games per week, it's more likely than not that I won't even see those cards.

If there is 1 extra card and you play 2 random games every week, it's more likely than not that you will play at least one game with that card. If you play 10 random games, the odds that you won't even see that one card from an expansion are lower than 5%.

My bad. Mind fart.
(I considered Kingdoms made of one card)  ;D'
Logged

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #288 on: April 20, 2016, 03:11:36 pm »
0

My suggestions for free online would be: base set + a set of 'standard' kingdoms (the recommended one from zxpansions?) that people can play.

Because you'll get tired of them, but it will leave you wanting more.

While I like your idea, I think I'd prefer free players to have base + about 10 other cards that change every week. That way you can still play a good amount and variety of free games without the "demo" feeling, if you don't play many games per week.
Keeping a free and satisfied player base is good, because if they ever get tired, you'll lose a potential customer. They shouldn't get tired, they should just want more. :)

Good point.

However, I am going to assume that if *you* don't pay and I *do* pay, and we get matched, that we use all my cards, so you get to benefit from me. That way, you would have access to all the cards, *sometimes*. But it's dependent on others.
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1757
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #289 on: April 20, 2016, 03:34:49 pm »
0

My suggestions for free online would be: base set + a set of 'standard' kingdoms (the recommended one from zxpansions?) that people can play.

Because you'll get tired of them, but it will leave you wanting more.

While I like your idea, I think I'd prefer free players to have base + about 10 other cards that change every week. That way you can still play a good amount and variety of free games without the "demo" feeling, if you don't play many games per week.
Keeping a free and satisfied player base is good, because if they ever get tired, you'll lose a potential customer. They shouldn't get tired, they should just want more. :)

Good point.

However, I am going to assume that if *you* don't pay and I *do* pay, and we get matched, that we use all my cards, so you get to benefit from me. That way, you would have access to all the cards, *sometimes*. But it's dependent on others.

Except Donald already indicated that they would be moving away from that model, which would presumably mean it is not possible to get matched with someone who has access to more cards than you do.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12847
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #290 on: April 20, 2016, 04:04:47 pm »
+6

Except Donald already indicated that they would be moving away from that model, which would presumably mean it is not possible to get matched with someone who has access to more cards than you do.

I've been giving suggestions and discussing things with the assumption that they aren't moving away from that model, because moving away from that model would be ridiculous. I'm passionate enough about Dominion that I'm definitely willing to pay some amount of money every month so that I get to play Dominion with expansions. I'm not passionate enough about waiting in an automatching queue that I'd be willing to pay some amount of money every month just so that I get to wait in an automatching queue, and unless people with expansions can get matched against people without them, waiting in an automatching queue is the only thing that anyone should expect to come out of paying the monthly subscription.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1757
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #291 on: April 20, 2016, 04:50:54 pm »
+1

Except Donald already indicated that they would be moving away from that model, which would presumably mean it is not possible to get matched with someone who has access to more cards than you do.

I've been giving suggestions and discussing things with the assumption that they aren't moving away from that model, because moving away from that model would be ridiculous. I'm passionate enough about Dominion that I'm definitely willing to pay some amount of money every month so that I get to play Dominion with expansions. I'm not passionate enough about waiting in an automatching queue that I'd be willing to pay some amount of money every month just so that I get to wait in an automatching queue, and unless people with expansions can get matched against people without them, waiting in an automatching queue is the only thing that anyone should expect to come out of paying the monthly subscription.

Reasonable enough.  I am also skeptical of the feasibility of matching paid players only with other paid players.

If I were designing a teaser system for free players, I think I would cycle a set of free cards that represent the "basics" that every set contains.  Perhaps "feature" a particular set by enabling one village, one draw card, one trasher, one unique thematic card, ect... up to whatever number of cards is considered appropriate with regard to the covering the basics, and the size of the teaser.  The set of cards should cycle often enough to keep people from leaving, but not so often that they don't get at least a little bit bored and are compelled to buy in.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #292 on: April 20, 2016, 05:09:00 pm »
0

Except Donald already indicated that they would be moving away from that model, which would presumably mean it is not possible to get matched with someone who has access to more cards than you do.

I've been giving suggestions and discussing things with the assumption that they aren't moving away from that model, because moving away from that model would be ridiculous. I'm passionate enough about Dominion that I'm definitely willing to pay some amount of money every month so that I get to play Dominion with expansions. I'm not passionate enough about waiting in an automatching queue that I'd be willing to pay some amount of money every month just so that I get to wait in an automatching queue, and unless people with expansions can get matched against people without them, waiting in an automatching queue is the only thing that anyone should expect to come out of paying the monthly subscription.

I don't know how severe the wait times will be given that we're talking about a binary pay/no-pay thing here, but definitely long wait times are going to be a big problem, especially near the release of the product. Like, I'm heading that people are unimpressed by the long wait time for Prismata games. I've experienced those myself, and they just make me want to play against computers.

So, measures that alleviate the issue of long wait times are very welcoming, I feel.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 05:10:04 pm by markusin »
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #293 on: April 20, 2016, 05:09:45 pm »
0

Except Donald already indicated that they would be moving away from that model, which would presumably mean it is not possible to get matched with someone who has access to more cards than you do.

I've been giving suggestions and discussing things with the assumption that they aren't moving away from that model, because moving away from that model would be ridiculous. I'm passionate enough about Dominion that I'm definitely willing to pay some amount of money every month so that I get to play Dominion with expansions. I'm not passionate enough about waiting in an automatching queue that I'd be willing to pay some amount of money every month just so that I get to wait in an automatching queue, and unless people with expansions can get matched against people without them, waiting in an automatching queue is the only thing that anyone should expect to come out of paying the monthly subscription.

Reasonable enough.  I am also skeptical of the feasibility of matching paid players only with other paid players.

If I were designing a teaser system for free players, I think I would cycle a set of free cards that represent the "basics" that every set contains.  Perhaps "feature" a particular set by enabling one village, one draw card, one trasher, one unique thematic card, ect... up to whatever number of cards is considered appropriate with regard to the covering the basics, and the size of the teaser.  The set of cards should cycle often enough to keep people from leaving, but not so often that they don't get at least a little bit bored and are compelled to buy in.

Maybe have a different Goko "half set" available for free every week?
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #294 on: April 20, 2016, 05:18:08 pm »
0

Maybe have a different Goko "half set" available for free every week?

I think it would be a bad idea overall to just pick a half-set.  The main point of the free cards would be to give new players a taste of the game, and most newbies will benefit from starting with simpler cards to ease them in.  I think that goal calls for a consistent set of curated cards (Base-only is the most natural but some others could be included) plus a very small set of cards that rotate on a weekly(?) basis.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #295 on: April 20, 2016, 05:49:41 pm »
+1

Maybe have a different Goko "half set" available for free every week?

I think it would be a bad idea overall to just pick a half-set.  The main point of the free cards would be to give new players a taste of the game, and most newbies will benefit from starting with simpler cards to ease them in.  I think that goal calls for a consistent set of curated cards (Base-only is the most natural but some others could be included) plus a very small set of cards that rotate on a weekly(?) basis.

Hmmm.  Going that route, I think the cards looked at should meet two of three qualities:
1) Simple
2) Representative of its set
3) Fun/interesting

If a card is really representative, and really fun (maybe, say, Goons?) simplicity could matter a little less.

To that end, my ideas on cards to possibly include on a rotating basis:

Intrigue: Courtyard, Masquerade, Bridge, Nobles
Seaside: Caravan, Sea Hag, Lookout
Alchemy: None, I don't think this would be a good set to have any of its cards be rotated in the free to play.
Prosperity: Goons, Bank, Worker's Village
Cornucopia: Tournament, Menagerie
Hinterlands: Oasis, Border Village, Haggler
Dark Ages: Poor House, Armory, Marauder, Altar, Feodum
Guilds: Baker, Stonemason
Adventures: Magpie, Lost City, Ratcatcher, Hireling

And then maybe pick, like, 3-5 of these each week.  Enough to get a taste, but not enough to overwhelm all the Base set cards.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 05:51:02 pm by werothegreat »
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

A Ladder

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #296 on: April 20, 2016, 06:01:00 pm »
+1

Hmmm.  Going that route, I think the cards looked at should meet two of three qualities:
1) Simple
2) Representative of its set
3) Fun/interesting

If a card is really representative, and really fun (maybe, say, Goons?) simplicity could matter a little less.

Emphasis mine: Goons is the least fun card (besides Rebuild) IMO. You either play Goons or lose. Booooooorrrriiiinnnnggggg.

If paying people can only be matched against other paying players...that doesn't sound great. I mean, yeah I only want to play competent people and competent players are more likely to be invested in the game (and thus buy it) but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the only good players. And some of us who would pay aren't that great (IE: me).

Man, why do you guys think it's necessary to have a rotating set of free cards? Base only should give plenty of variety of games to get people interested enough in shelling out a few dollars to play with more. It sounds like just an incentive to never pay Shuffle iT. And if they allow free players to play against people who own sets, then that's variety right there.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12847
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #297 on: April 20, 2016, 06:07:01 pm »
0

Emphasis mine: Goons is the least fun card (besides Rebuild) IMO. You either play Goons or lose. Booooooorrrriiiinnnnggggg.

Or you could look at it this way: You either play an engine or lose. Fun!
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

SCSN

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #298 on: April 20, 2016, 06:09:47 pm »
+7

We haven't yet decided what the exact matchmaking permissions are going to be, but more restrictions than in the current system doesn't automatically imply long wait times. E.g. one could dynamically relax the restrictions on non-paying players if a match for a paying player isn't forthcoming.

In any case, if whatever decision we end up making leads, in practice, to a poor experience for paying users, we will certainly reconsider it. The ability to adjust on the fly reduces horror scenarios to temporary diversions.

but definitely long wait times are going to be a big problem, especially near the release of the product.

With many people getting it for free the first year, this is unlikely to be an issue come the release.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #299 on: April 20, 2016, 06:34:10 pm »
0

Man, why do you guys think it's necessary to have a rotating set of free cards? Base only should give plenty of variety of games to get people interested enough in shelling out a few dollars to play with more. It sounds like just an incentive to never pay Shuffle iT. And if they allow free players to play against people who own sets, then that's variety right there.

It's not necessary, but it could be a good thing depending on how everything else is set up.  It's not exactly the same situation, but it works well for League of Legends.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 27  All
 

Page created in 0.156 seconds with 21 queries.