Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 27  All

Author Topic: Creating Dominion  (Read 207007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #200 on: April 16, 2016, 02:39:42 pm »
+4

I haven't read all of the other replies but I have to admit that I also find this entire ordeal really annoying. I payed the equivalent of $90, so I can occasionally play Dominion at my free leisure. Recently I had troubles in my life and didn't really have time for anything and I still don't and now you're telling me that my purchase will basically be just a waste? Making my purchase the equivalent of a service of about $36 is not a good reimbursement, come on. I'd rather prefer MF to still hold the contract at this time even though it is far from perfect and made me use SCSNs mod to make it more bearable.

I'd rather pay a steep price once than pay a little each month and feel like I wasted money if I don't play at least once this month. I am disillusioned at how poor structered the new pay model is and how everyone is so ecstatic about these news.

I think that most people understand that ongoing services have a cost.  Some places use donation models to keep things going (BGA, Yucata, Kingdom of Loathing).  Some use pay-to-win or pay-for-hats to keep things going (Prismata, Hearthstone, and *shudder* mobile freemium).  And others use subscriptions.

Making Fun had an unsustainable business model.  They were going to get less and less revenue each month at some point, and server costs were going to eat them.

The thing about subscriptions is, you don't have to pay every month!  Shit hit the fan IRL?  Cancel for the next few months, bam, done.  You could request/suggest that the free year be allowed to be taken as 12 months, I suppose.

And yes, you could argue that a donation model might work.  But how many people will donate to server costs?  Would they need a yearly donation drive like BGG or Wikipedia?  How quickly would that start to hurt?  I personally would rather have a sustainable service, and $3 a month is an incredible price point.

Well said.  Really, this feeling that people have of getting multiply charged is Goko/Making Fun's fault of setting up their model the way they did in the first place.  I believe if this were the very first implementation of Online Dominion, people wouldn't be so affronted by the subscription model, even if they didn't agree that it was optimal.
Logged

Mavy2k

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 78
  • Respect: +64
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #201 on: April 16, 2016, 03:24:33 pm »
+1

I haven't read all of the other replies but I have to admit that I also find this entire ordeal really annoying. I payed the equivalent of $90, so I can occasionally play Dominion at my free leisure. Recently I had troubles in my life and didn't really have time for anything and I still don't and now you're telling me that my purchase will basically be just a waste? Making my purchase the equivalent of a service of about $36 is not a good reimbursement, come on. I'd rather prefer MF to still hold the contract at this time even though it is far from perfect and made me use SCSNs mod to make it more bearable.

I'd rather pay a steep price once than pay a little each month and feel like I wasted money if I don't play at least once this month. I am disillusioned at how poor structered the new pay model is and how everyone is so ecstatic about these news.

I think that most people understand that ongoing services have a cost.  Some places use donation models to keep things going (BGA, Yucata, Kingdom of Loathing).  Some use pay-to-win or pay-for-hats to keep things going (Prismata, Hearthstone, and *shudder* mobile freemium).  And others use subscriptions.

Making Fun had an unsustainable business model.  They were going to get less and less revenue each month at some point, and server costs were going to eat them.

The thing about subscriptions is, you don't have to pay every month!  Shit hit the fan IRL?  Cancel for the next few months, bam, done.  You could request/suggest that the free year be allowed to be taken as 12 months, I suppose.

And yes, you could argue that a donation model might work.  But how many people will donate to server costs?  Would they need a yearly donation drive like BGG or Wikipedia?  How quickly would that start to hurt?  I personally would rather have a sustainable service, and $3 a month is an incredible price point.

Well said.  Really, this feeling that people have of getting multiply charged is Goko/Making Fun's fault of setting up their model the way they did in the first place.  I believe if this were the very first implementation of Online Dominion, people wouldn't be so affronted by the subscription model, even if they didn't agree that it was optimal.

Yeah, the payment model is not that terrible. Paying yet another time for Dominion is. I bought the sets irl, bought some on MF and have to pay again, if I want to have the option to play the occasional game. If I were playing more Dominion I wouldnīt mind this at all, but I donīt see myself playing enough games. For me it would probably come down that I am paying about $1 for each game I am playing online.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #202 on: April 16, 2016, 03:54:01 pm »
+1

I understand people being upset over pricing. But, we will get the new service for free for a year. After playing for a year, we can decide if it is worth the subscription cost or not.
Logged

Mavy2k

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 78
  • Respect: +64
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #203 on: April 16, 2016, 04:17:18 pm »
0

I feel the need to add something.
I did not understand the thing about the offline client at first.
I thought the MF client could do that, got unsure and tested it and it can not do that.
With this revelation I feel pretty okay with my stuff getting transfered to the offline client, might be nice to have the option to play that on the bus, even when I obviously have never bothered with this.
I do think that the new model is better than the current/old. Itīs just that the whole situation makes me feel a bit sour about Dominion in general.
I realise that this is unfair towards the new team. If I had started to play Dominion today and not already invested any money in the game I would be really happy about this news.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2016, 07:49:49 pm »
+18

I haven't read all of the other replies but I have to admit that I also find this entire ordeal really annoying. I payed the equivalent of $90, so I can occasionally play Dominion at my free leisure. Recently I had troubles in my life and didn't really have time for anything and I still don't and now you're telling me that my purchase will basically be just a waste? Making my purchase the equivalent of a service of about $36 is not a good reimbursement, come on. I'd rather prefer MF to still hold the contract at this time even though it is far from perfect and made me use SCSNs mod to make it more bearable.
From my perspective, some random strangers made an unreasonable promise to people about my game, gave me a tiny fraction of the money taken in, and now people expect me to make good on that promise those strangers made.

To support older players to the degree that we are, we will already be out more money than we've ever made from online Dominion. I would be better off there had never been official online Dominion. Not even considering the ridiculous number of hours of work I've put into these failed versions; if I got to keep the money it would still be the worst job I've had since the 80s.

You may note that the new system doesn't put us in this situation. People who buy offline sets can still play them if the publisher dies; people who buy the subscription aren't owed anything when it runs out.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #205 on: April 16, 2016, 07:52:47 pm »
+6

I think that most people understand that ongoing services have a cost.  Some places use donation models to keep things going (BGA, Yucata, Kingdom of Loathing).  Some use pay-to-win or pay-for-hats to keep things going (Prismata, Hearthstone, and *shudder* mobile freemium).  And others use subscriptions.

Making Fun had an unsustainable business model.  They were going to get less and less revenue each month at some point, and server costs were going to eat them.
Let us be clear, there are ongoing costs, but they aren't server costs. The server costs are small compared to the cost of having people continue to devote whatever hours are necessary to the project.
Logged

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #206 on: April 16, 2016, 08:05:59 pm »
+1

I sympathize with the people who are like 'meh, paying again?' but the chances of the ultimate product be better is not small, in part because of the monthly payment.

My guess is: if the ultimate product is worth it, they (the consumers) will come.



Logged

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
  • They/Them
  • Respect: +1980
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #207 on: April 16, 2016, 08:24:33 pm »
+19

I mean, four years ago I paid $45 to a company that doesn't exist anymore for what's amounted to a few thousand hours of entertainment. I realize people who bought in a month ago aren't in the same position, but the fact that the new company (which is just trying to get its feet off the ground) is honoring that purchase in any way is frankly kind of incredible to me. People are getting something for free and complaining about it not being good enough, it's just baffling to me.
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

RevanFan

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #208 on: April 16, 2016, 08:49:00 pm »
0

I have a question regarding the new pay model. I know you likely don't have all the answers, but at least some info would be great. I currently own all the expansions on the current platform. I know it was stated earlier that, if you own all the previous sets, you'd get the first year free, only being charged the difference when a new expansion (Empires) comes out. Would that still be the case if I don't purchase the Making Fun version of Adventures whenever they finish it? If I have every set except for Adventures when January comes, will I still get the year free, and be charged the difference for both Adventures and Empires?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 08:53:54 pm by RevanFan »
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #209 on: April 16, 2016, 08:56:57 pm »
+2

I have a question regarding the new pay model. I know you likely don't have all the answers, but at least some info would be great. I currently own all the expansions on the current platform. I know it was stated earlier that, if you own all the previous sets, you'd get the first year free, only being charged the difference when a new expansion (Empires) comes out. Would that still be the case if I don't purchase the Making Fun version of Adventures whenever they finish it? If I have every set except for Adventures when January comes, will I still get the year free, and be charged the difference for both Adventures and Empires?
Yes, whatever random mix of expansions you have, there will be a way to pay the difference to upgrade to everything. If there are two packaged tiers or something, there might not be a way to upgrade to a tier other than the everything tier. And you don't need to upgrade to everything if you don't want to.
Logged

RevanFan

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #210 on: April 16, 2016, 09:39:22 pm »
+1

Good to know. Thanks. In that case, I think I may wait to get Adventures until the new client comes out in January. The only person I play online with is my dad and we have more than enough fun with the pre-Adventures sets (though, admittedly, Adventures is my favorite expansion.)
Logged

Philipp_G

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
  • Respect: +4
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #211 on: April 17, 2016, 04:47:28 pm »
0

On the one hand I'm really happy to hear such a good news, but on the other I'm a bit sad because I'm new to Dominion and I've spent $94,98 last month in order to buy all the sets (first I bought Seaside for $14,99 and then all sets for $79,99, now I have 75 ducats of change). I hope that developers could take it into account somehow :-\
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (ī。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #212 on: April 17, 2016, 05:32:04 pm »
+4

Could it be possible to turn everyone's expansions that they already own into some kind of a virtual currency that can be spent to pay for the expansions online (in such a way that owning all the expansions would still give you exactly enough to pay for all the expansions for a year)? That way, instead of making people pay the difference between all the expansions and the expansions that they owned on MF, they could choose to play with all the expansions but for a shorter time. As far as I can understand, it wouldn't really make a huge difference from Shuffle iT's perspective, but I think that a lot of people might appreciate it.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

The_Tricksta

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Respect: +22
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #213 on: April 17, 2016, 08:30:37 pm »
0

To support older players to the degree that we are, we will already be out more money than we've ever made from online Dominion. I would be better off there had never been official online Dominion. Not even considering the ridiculous number of hours of work I've put into these failed versions; if I got to keep the money it would still be the worst job I've had since the 80s.

You may note that the new system doesn't put us in this situation. People who buy offline sets can still play them if the publisher dies; people who buy the subscription aren't owed anything when it runs out.

Thank you for your insight on this. I am sorry to hear that you had to go through all of that chaos and had to make the choice of going for yet another shot on a software implementation of Dominion. The previous pay model was bonkers obviously which made my friends shy away from Dominion Online but if you "fell" for it, you're now in this peculiar spot where this one company is not going to give you what they promised. I didn't really mean to lash out at you, I am just frustrated because of this entire situation.

I mean, four years ago I paid $45 to a company that doesn't exist anymore for what's amounted to a few thousand hours of entertainment. I realize people who bought in a month ago aren't in the same position, but the fact that the new company (which is just trying to get its feet off the ground) is honoring that purchase in any way is frankly kind of incredible to me. People are getting something for free and complaining about it not being good enough, it's just baffling to me.

If I would've gotten thousands of hours out of the money that I paid for Dominion Online I actually wouldn't be as annoyed as I am. My main problem with the whole free stuff is that you only get a choice between the offline and online service. If it would be both I would actually be more fine with the whole new pay model. While it isn't the job at all from the new dev team to reimburse us for any of the mistakes MF did, it would at least be a nice closure to all of the failures that had happened in the past. If the new piece of software is awesome you can sure as heck expect me to pay for your online services in the following years but right now it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I am left questioning myself why I just didn't spend $90 on a physical Cornucopia set instead.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #214 on: April 17, 2016, 08:38:28 pm »
0

It isn't the job at all from the new dev team to reimburse us for any of the mistakes MF did

You just answered your own complaints.

That's the trouble with digital content. If the company goes down, there goes all your lovely software.
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

The_Tricksta

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Respect: +22
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #215 on: April 17, 2016, 08:55:58 pm »
0

You just answered your own complaints.

That's the trouble with digital content. If the company goes down, there goes all your lovely software.

Yes, that is correct. That is why I brought it up, since I am very well aware of that problem as a software developer myself. You know, what I also did? I asked to make this entire happening more consumer friendly so people won't feel cheated out of their money if they just recently paid for the services of MF. So please, don't quote me out of context.

Maybe your intent was something else, but I got a rather passive aggressive vibe from your post. If that wasn't the intent I apologize in advance.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #216 on: April 17, 2016, 09:10:40 pm »
+2

There's always someone to blame for something. After MF's Dominion implementation goes under, Stef and SCSN will have their own new thing, and people are going to hate it for the sake of hating it, or because the last people messed it up and did it wrong in the first place. People are going to start grumbling like the Israelites in Caanan. If only they could be slaves again in Egypt, they could have those nice fruits and sand or whatever. I'm not holding Stef accountable for MF's decisions. He has enough on his plate already.

People always focus on the negative and point out all the bad things. I am excited for what's coming out next year, and I will do all in my power to help create a better product.

I think that Stef and SCSN will do the best decision. I actually trust them because I know them.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 09:12:08 pm by Seprix »
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

amoffett11

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
  • Respect: +271
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #217 on: April 17, 2016, 11:32:09 pm »
+2

I feel bad about people who've bought the full set very recently; I feel worse about the people who might buy the full set tomorrow.  Or next month.  Does anyone know what it looks like to someone who may decide to buy everything now?  I assume the price is still the same.  I guess if someone decided to look very hard they could find threads like this one, or the "2016 plan and future" thread over at MF, and read between the lines, but it seems more likely that most people might get the whole thing not knowing about the upcoming switch. 

I'm pretty much at peace now with the fact that I got my money's worth (and more) getting the whole set back when I did in September 2015.  But someone who gets it today?  Not so much.  Someone who spends $90 dollars in September 2016, only to find out that in 4 months it's going to be converted to a $36 year pass might be somewhat unhappy.  It's hard to expect MF to put up a big sign that says "Don't buy this!  Wait for 2017!", but at what point does it become dishonest for them to keep selling the whole set for $90 without some kind of disclaimer?  I feel like we might already be there. 
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #218 on: April 17, 2016, 11:53:02 pm »
+4

I'm pretty much at peace now with the fact that I got my money's worth (and more) getting the whole set back when I did in September 2015.  But someone who gets it today?  Not so much.  Someone who spends $90 dollars in September 2016, only to find out that in 4 months it's going to be converted to a $36 year pass might be somewhat unhappy.  It's hard to expect MF to put up a big sign that says "Don't buy this!  Wait for 2017!", but at what point does it become dishonest for them to keep selling the whole set for $90 without some kind of disclaimer?  I feel like we might already be there.
Well I made a note in the MF thread and linked to this subforum.
Logged

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
  • Respect: +2479
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #219 on: April 18, 2016, 12:29:19 am »
0

Could it be possible to turn everyone's expansions that they already own into some kind of a virtual currency that can be spent to pay for the expansions online (in such a way that owning all the expansions would still give you exactly enough to pay for all the expansions for a year)? That way, instead of making people pay the difference between all the expansions and the expansions that they owned on MF, they could choose to play with all the expansions but for a shorter time. As far as I can understand, it wouldn't really make a huge difference from Shuffle iT's perspective, but I think that a lot of people might appreciate it.
I think something like this is the best idea posted so far.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #220 on: April 18, 2016, 04:34:27 am »
+1

Could it be possible to turn everyone's expansions that they already own into some kind of a virtual currency that can be spent to pay for the expansions online (in such a way that owning all the expansions would still give you exactly enough to pay for all the expansions for a year)? That way, instead of making people pay the difference between all the expansions and the expansions that they owned on MF, they could choose to play with all the expansions but for a shorter time. As far as I can understand, it wouldn't really make a huge difference from Shuffle iT's perspective, but I think that a lot of people might appreciate it.

While this is a great idea, I wish they'll simply give store credit in dollars, or at least in a currency that changes 1:1 with dollars. Heaven knows how many dumb virtual currencies we've already had to endure.
Logged

cactus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
  • Then: longtime lurker. Now: occasional poster.
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #221 on: April 18, 2016, 04:38:28 am »
+3

You just answered your own complaints.

That's the trouble with digital content. If the company goes down, there goes all your lovely software.

Yes, that is correct. That is why I brought it up, since I am very well aware of that problem as a software developer myself. You know, what I also did? I asked to make this entire happening more consumer friendly so people won't feel cheated out of their money if they just recently paid for the services of MF. So please, don't quote me out of context.

Maybe your intent was something else, but I got a rather passive aggressive vibe from your post. If that wasn't the intent I apologize in advance.

Hey Tricksta,

I'm not trying to speak for others but I think if you are detecting a bit of angst in a few of the comments in this thread it is likely to be because of the long history of some of these issues stretching back over the space of years. As you are new there is no way you could be aware of these issues (happily for you!). I think it is a testament to just how good Dominion is as a game that we're all still here after years of frustration and care enough to get all fired up over these issues!  :( >:( ::)

At any rate welcome to Dominion and to the forums. I think there is good reason to hope that you've missed the Dark Ages of Dominion and you're hear just in time for the glorious Renaissance!

Renaissance ... Dominion Renaissance ... Hey that could be a great name for a future as-yet-undrempt-of expansion!

cactus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
  • Then: longtime lurker. Now: occasional poster.
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #222 on: April 18, 2016, 04:49:20 am »
+1

@ -Stef- and SCSN:
Congratulations! And thank you. I am so glad that two people who really care about Dominion have stepped up and taken responsibility for giving this great game the online implemtation it deserves. Here's to a brighter Dominion future.

Side note: I am saddened by the tone of a lot of the comments in this thread. I honestly thought we were a bit better than this. IMO we should be offering support and encouragement instead of quibbling over pricing structures before they are even properly up and running. This is two of our own with long track records of positive contributions to the community.

Who would have thought the guy named Cactus is a softie.

Ha! I grew up playing Cricket in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne Australia. That won't mean much to most of you (apart from possibly @Jimmmm) but sufficient to say verbal abuse is a way of life where I come from. I leave it out when I come on to the forums though ... as most of you aren't Australian you might not understand that insulting each other is how we express affection for one another.  :o

cactus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
  • Then: longtime lurker. Now: occasional poster.
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #223 on: April 18, 2016, 04:54:03 am »
+2

When ever I get together with my best mate for a game of Dominion I greet him with: "how ya going... you scout!"

Harsh, I know.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 04:57:28 am by cactus »
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #224 on: April 18, 2016, 10:55:06 am »
+2

When ever I get together with my best mate for a game of Dominion I greet him with: "how ya going... you scout!"

Harsh, I know.

Is your mate Roadrunner? :)
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 27  All
 

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 21 queries.