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Author Topic: Creating Dominion  (Read 99426 times)

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J Reggie

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2016, 09:23:05 am »
+2

In more seriousness though, this news is very heartening. It's so cool to know that two of the best Dominion players in the world will have Dominion as their career.

One thing I hope is that they realize that most people don't like change and that the two interfaces are relatively stylistically similar to Goko/MF and Isotropic respectively.

werothegreat

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2016, 09:24:41 am »
+19

For now, consider me... wary.  When this was first announced, I guess I was expecting an actual company with infrastructure and a team of programmers, rather than... two guys.  I realize dougz did a lot for one guy, but let's be honest, isotropic was pretty small scale, and not really something you could reasonably mass-market.  So besides the fact that this is now the third digital Dominion implementation we'll have gotten, I'm leery of official Dominion being in the hands of two forumers with a high chance of being partisan.

That aside, I also have some questions:
-Will the Online implementation also include all the features you're advertising on the Offline (campaigns, etc)?
-Will you have any support for trial users?  In both previous implementations, I could get online friends to try Dominion without them having to pay anything.  Once they saw how good a game it was, they were often encouraged to buy expansions on their own.  However, I think a monthly subscription fee, even $2-3, would be sufficient deterrent for a lot of them to not bother.  If you look at other successful digital card games (Hearthstone, Duelyst), they all have some form of free to play option.
-Will you have some sort of pass-and-play feature for Offline (or Online, even)?

In the interest of fairness, and to not sound like a paranoid judgmental asshole, I am intrigued by:
-Multi-language support - this is excellent, and I look forward to it.  One of the things that I'm surprised has not be done heretofore.  I guess this is more of a priority when the developers aren't native English speakers.
-Spectator mode - also something I'm surprised hasn't been done yet.
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Chris is me

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2016, 09:42:05 am »
+4

I have a lot of confidence that the best Dominion Online implementation possible can be done being written by the best and most passionate Dominion players. It just makes sense. Eliminates the middleman.

$3 a month is an extremely reasonable price to pay for Dominion Online, especially since I won't have to pay that for a year.

If Dominion Offline doesn't have local multiplayer, it doesn't make much sense to me why I would buy that if I'm already paying for Dominion Online. And I'm someone that does like playing solitaire games or games versus AI sometimes. Local multiplayer could be a great way to rope friends into Dominion Online as well.

Also, thanks for doing this. Finally someone will probably get this right.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2016, 09:44:49 am »
+8

So... this is the otter Online Dominion?
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2016, 10:08:16 am »
+1

Dominion players making dominion software? Very glad to hear this!
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RTT

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 10:13:06 am »
+2

as much as i apreciate the work you will be doing for this a monthly fee will make me quit dominion online.
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faust

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 10:16:37 am »
+23

Favorite Online Dominion Bracket:

1. Isotropic
4. Goko

2. Stef & SCSN's Dominion
3. Making Fun
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timchen

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2016, 10:19:48 am »
+1

Haven't logged in for a long time, but time to say it's finally the time for me to consider buying dominion online.

I assume they have a good enough demo to get the contract. So I don't worry about their implementation ability. On the other hand I am glad to see that finally the engine/interface is designed by someone who plays thousands of games.
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amoffett11

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2016, 10:45:10 am »
+5

Back in September I had to decide whether to dive in and pay for the expansions, I was wary of exactly this kind of thing.  It was something like $90 to get them all, which is not exactly cheap.  But once I had them I had them, great.  A good investment.  And Making Fun, despite the way the majority of this community loves to crap on them every chance they get, it works.  They address bugs fairly quickly.  So at this point, there's a working product that I've already paid for, so I'm not going to be thrilled by any decision that changes this.  Still, I came to expect this back when the decision was announced. 

I'm not exactly thrilled about the new pricing model, but I get it.  It's hard to expect people to work for free.  If I'm understanding my choices correctly I can either

A) Get the first year of Dominion Online for free (a $36 value) and never play offline again.  No campaigns or AI games. 
B) Transfer my expansions to Dominion Offline (I don't know, a $55ish value), and start paying the online fee immediately.

I guess I'm stuck with Option B; I do enjoy the campaigns and do play offline sometimes. 

Here's my real fear with this whole process:

I paid $90.  I got 16 months of online and offline Dominion.  (Actually, by the time I've purchased Adventures, and I still plan to, it will more like $100ish dollars).  Once 2017 rolls around, I will keep my offline expansions and then will have to pay $36 through the year.  But what happens if after a year or two, it's decided that this implementation isn't right either, and it gets switched *again* to another developer.  And the new guys say "hey, here's our new pricing model, y'all got to pay for all the expansions *again*.  And the cycle continues.  From what I've seen Making Fun has done an excellent job of honouring player's past purchases; this may not be a financially viable position for the new developers to take, but there it is. 

I really hope that the decision-makers have made the right decision this time and we don't have to make another switch.  I understand that they feel their previous choice (MF) was the wrong one, and they may be right, but ultimately that decision is going to cost me a bit of money.  I am optimistic the new developers know what they're doing and can deliver a good product.  The previous product worked just fine, so the onus will be on them to deliver a better one. 
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Polk5440

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2016, 10:49:47 am »
+4

It's actually happening! Philip (SCSN) and I are building the new version of Dominion Online that will go online on the first of January 2017. We're really excited we got the contract.

Congratulations! And be sure to let me know when you are looking for testers later in the year. I would be happy to help!

Well, I guess it's just me, so I'll stop complaining and suck the extra costs up.

Well, no, it's not just you, as you can see in the thread. I share some of the concerns, too, but I think it's better to give Stef and SCSN space to work and develop the product. They are clearly hoping to deliver an online product that is WORTH paying up to $3/mo for. Let's give them a chance to deliver.

For now, consider me... wary.  When this was first announced, I guess I was expecting an actual company with infrastructure and a team of programmers, rather than... two guys.

To be fair, Rio Grande Games is one guy, Donald X. is one guy, and Goko-Making Fun, etc. were a lot of guys, then one guy, then some guys + random code monkeys if I understand the history of the companies correctly.

Think about it as a risky start up venture. Like Goko was, except this time the start up has a more limited mission scope, proven programmers, and a love of the game they are adapting. 
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ben_king

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 10:51:34 am »
+2

Congratulations on getting the contract!  I'm very excited about this.  Contrary to many people, I feel like the pricing structure is well thought out.  I think this will actually entice me to finally buy the expansions online.
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Insomniac

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2016, 11:08:55 am »
+7

I came here to say that I'm still a person who plays Dominion online quite a bit and am super unhappy with this news. The monthly fee along with no way for people who don't play very often feels alienating. With Making fun people who play once a year can hop on and enjoy a game of Dominion with me right now and they can do that for free with all the expansions. I feel extremely mislead in being told that my purchases would transfer over when in fact they basically won't. I understand the need to generate income but this feels like I'm being ripped off. I bought the expansions with the intention of being able to play with my more casual (maybe a few games a year) kind of people and I won't be able to do that anymore. And I have to choose between the "offline" version whatever that means and the online version.

If the payment model stays the same, I won't be making the move.
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SquisherX

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2016, 11:25:27 am »
+2

Yeah I'm pretty pissed at this. I have all the Dominon cards IRL, so I don't need an offline mode. I paid $90 to get a game I could play for a long time. I play often with my wife, as currently she can play without having paid the $90 so long as I had the expansions.

Now I will only get a year more before I have to pay $72 per month for me and my wife? And in the first year I'll have to shell out $36 for her? Fuck that. This is just nickel and diming your customers.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2016, 11:30:22 am »
+1

Yeah I'm pretty pissed at this. I have all the Dominon cards IRL, so I don't need an offline mode. I paid $90 to get a game I could play for a long time. I play often with my wife, as currently she can play without having paid the $90 so long as I had the expansions.

Now I will only get a year more before I have to pay $72 per month for me and my wife? And in the first year I'll have to shell out $36 for her? Fuck that. This is just nickel and diming your customers.

I'm not reading the same thing you're reading:

Quote
$3/month online (for all expansions, $2/month for half the expansions)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2016, 11:31:47 am »
+1

Also, would both players need to own all the expansions online, or only the person that creates the game?
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A Ladder

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2016, 11:38:29 am »
+9

Fantastic news! Apparently I'm one of the few people who thinks that $3 a month is dirt cheap. Holy cow is that cheap. I for one can go with one less 30 oz soda or bag of cookies a month to play one of my favorite games.  (Think of it this way...put a quarter away every week till this comes out...then you'll have four months of free dominion).

Question 1: Will there be a "base game only" free online version like the current MF model? I probably wouldn't have even tried Dominion Online if that wasn't free.
Question 2: Will those with half expansions still get to experience all the expansions if paired up with someone who bought the whole package? If so, that is great!

Haddock

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2016, 11:40:24 am »
0

I only just bought all the expansions with Making Fun.  Which was a fairly big expenditure, and it hurts that they are going to be essentially lost at the end of this year (Offline Dominion not really being a thing.).

That said, I think a lot of what is putting people off about the pay monthly system (which I will probably be happy to pay) is the idea of paying $3/month for what Making Fun currently offer (which is our only current point of comparison).  I would not want to pay monthly for what MF do, but we have to trust here that SCSN and Stef are going to produce a product that is actually WORTH that fee, unlike what MF have done.  People should keep in mind when complaining about the idea of a monthly fee.


That said, I do think a trial period is absolutely a good idea, as well as some way of playing local/LAN multiplayer in the "Offline" system.



I would even go so far as to suggest a $1/month fee for people who want to play online with no expansions, just putting up with whatever games other people have (as the current MF does if you have no expansions).   But I'm aware that I have no right to suggest anything with regards to your pricing structure, so take this suggestion with a pinch of salt.


Related question: Which "half" of the expansions?
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2016, 11:43:55 am »
0

Yeah I'm pretty pissed at this. I have all the Dominon cards IRL, so I don't need an offline mode. I paid $90 to get a game I could play for a long time. I play often with my wife, as currently she can play without having paid the $90 so long as I had the expansions.

Couldn't you play with your wife IRL then? It's a genuine question. When I got Dominion Online I became a bit lazy and didn't want to set up the cards, so I asked my girlfriend if she wanted to play online and she gave me a "WTF"-look and pointed to the expansions on the shelf. I assumed most couples that don't spend horrendous amounts of time apart play IRL.
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yuma

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2016, 11:44:42 am »
+1

I came here to say that I'm still a person who plays Dominion online quite a bit and am super unhappy with this news. The monthly fee along with no way for people who don't play very often feels alienating. With Making fun people who play once a year can hop on and enjoy a game of Dominion with me right now and they can do that for free with all the expansions. I feel extremely mislead in being told that my purchases would transfer over when in fact they basically won't. I understand the need to generate income but this feels like I'm being ripped off. I bought the expansions with the intention of being able to play with my more casual (maybe a few games a year) kind of people and I won't be able to do that anymore. And I have to choose between the "offline" version whatever that means and the online version.

If the payment model stays the same, I won't be making the move.

Wow! Insomniac spotting!
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ravi

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2016, 11:52:23 am »
+3

This is great. I would highly recommend a free online mode for base-set only people. I think you won't be able to hook many new people in with paying $3/month.

My brother likes Dominion IRL and hates playing online, but since we live so far away we sometimes play online and when we both go visit my dad or something we will play online against each other so we don't have to lug a million cards on a flight. He would definitely not want to pay anything for an online implementation so I would hope there would still be a way for me to play against him if I have an online subscription.

I'm definitely all in as a customer though. Love how responsive SCSN was simply with the patch doing it as a hobby. This is great news.
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J Reggie

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2016, 12:01:40 pm »
+4

Would people rather have a thread for talking about pricing and leave this thread for congratulating Stef/SCSN?

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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2016, 12:04:50 pm »
+7

Would people rather have a thread for talking about pricing and leave this thread for congratulating Stef/SCSN?

* LastFootnote looks at thread title

I don't see why. Seems like a fine place for all feedback, both positive and negative.
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2016, 12:05:34 pm »
+1

Very good news! (sad to see the n-th working implementation of online Dominion being thrown in the trash, but it's great news for the long run)
Since I concentrate my Dominion plays in only a few months of the year, a subscription system works great for me, and the price seems fair. Yet, I worry that subscriptions will scare the more casual players away, unless a decent free option is left for those who only play a few games once in a while. (limiting number of games, or creating a free ghetto with fewer cards available, or who knows)
Also, I'm afraid that asking for money up front will also make it hard to get new players.
I have full faith in that you guys will deliver a very good product, I hope that you'll be able to commercialize it in a way that will make it bloom.
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2016, 12:12:16 pm »
+4

There's a reason most persistent services charge monthly fees (or have ads). There are recurring costs for using that service. However I'm less sure it works for something like online dominion where there's bound to be huge disparities in usage between more or less casual players. For many people who post here $3 a month is basically nothing for how much they'll get out. But for many who play infrequently it's an annoying barrier to turn on and off the service. So I'm a little skeptical of the business model here. I would gladly pay $3 if I was playing as much as I did on ISO. I probably still will because it's such a small amount. But I think people disagreeing have a reasonable argument.
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Re: Creating Dominion
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2016, 12:18:14 pm »
+1

Oh. Oh. I read this as offline mode being free.

There's no way I'll make the switch.
Sorry guys.
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