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[McGarnacle]

Just was wondering what everybody thought was the best attack. I've heard lots of different opinions.

[Chris is me]

Cultist and Mountebank are the only real contenders here. Cultist ultimately junks faster and draws, which tends to be more devastating than Mountebank's double junk with money. Plus obviously the chaining thing. Cultist is too good.

[Seprix]

Close contenders are Ghost Ship and Mountebank, but Cultist on the board basically warps everything.

[Polk5440]

This thread should be moved to General Discussion.

[McGarnacle]

Cultist and Mountebank are the only real contenders here. Cultist ultimately junks faster and draws, which tends to be more devastating than Mountebank's double junk with money. Plus obviously the chaining thing. Cultist is too good.

There are only 10 ruins, plus they are not as bad as curses. Cultist does junk fast, but the ruins do run out eventually. Mountebank rarely runs out of coppers.

Then again, I've only played for a few years, so I defer to you guys as to which is the best. 

[Seprix]

Cultist and Mountebank are the only real contenders here. Cultist ultimately junks faster and draws, which tends to be more devastating than Mountebank's double junk with money. Plus obviously the chaining thing. Cultist is too good.

There are only 10 ruins, plus they are not as bad as curses. Cultist does junk fast, but the ruins do run out eventually. Mountebank rarely runs out of coppers.

Then again, I've only played for a few years, so I defer to you guys as to which is the best. 

Don't contest Ruins, and try to get out of 10 Ruins in your deck, while your opponent coasts to Duchy/Estate/Cultist piles for an easy win. It's not about the negative VP as much as it is about the quick junking before you can even get your deck going. If Cultist gave you a copper every time, it would be possibly worse for you than Ruins.

[McGarnacle]

Btw, do you guys think Death Cart and Counting House are at all viable counters against Cultist/Mountebank respectively?

[faust]

Cultist and Mountebank are the only real contenders here. Cultist ultimately junks faster and draws, which tends to be more devastating than Mountebank's double junk with money. Plus obviously the chaining thing. Cultist is too good.

There are only 10 ruins, plus they are not as bad as curses. Cultist does junk fast, but the ruins do run out eventually. Mountebank rarely runs out of coppers.

Then again, I've only played for a few years, so I defer to you guys as to which is the best. 

If there is no trashing, the Copper gaining actually becomes an advantage in the late game. I have certainly played games where I didn't discard my Curse because Copper increased my money density.

[faust]

Btw, do you guys think Death Cart and Counting House are at all viable counters against Cultist/Mountebank respectively?

None of these is anywhere close good enough to skip getting the attack yourself. That said, Death Cart is usually bad in a Cultist deck, while Counting House might be worth it with Mountebank, especially in Colony games.

[McGarnacle]

No votes for Rabble yet?

[Doom_Shark]

No votes for Rabble yet?

Rabble is fun. I don't see why you guys overlooked minion and torturer though. Minion megaturns tend to be devastating. Don't know about other places, but in the official play dominion app/program/website, the ai's love minion megaturns, and I tend to agree. As for torturer and rabble, I tend to like them because they're smithy variants that are attacks, which is fun with villages. I'd lump margrave in there too, except for the fact that after the first margrave, subsequent ones either filter green out of your opponent's decks or improve their hand.

[Seprix]

Don't know about other places, but in the official play dominion app/program/website, the ai's love minion megaturns, and I tend to agree.

The AI bots are ludicrously weak and easy to beat, and getting strategy ideas from Bots is not a recommendable idea.

Minion is Minion. non-terminal Silver most times with cycling power. If it didn't attack the opponent, I think it would be about where it is now. The attack isn't all that effective. I've had terrible hands discarded for good ones about as many times as I lost good hands for bad ones.

[McGarnacle]

Surprised no one has voted for Ghost Ship yet.

[LastFootnote]

Minion is Minion. non-terminal Silver most times with cycling power. If it didn't attack the opponent, I think it would be about where it is now. The attack isn't all that effective. I've had terrible hands discarded for good ones about as many times as I lost good hands for bad ones.

The attack is about as bad as Militia, I'd say. The good hands that replace your bad hands are on average much weaker than the good hands you lost to Minion. They only have 4 cards, you see.

[Jack Rudd]

Minion is Minion. non-terminal Silver most times with cycling power. If it didn't attack the opponent, I think it would be about where it is now. The attack isn't all that effective. I've had terrible hands discarded for good ones about as many times as I lost good hands for bad ones.

The attack is about as bad as Militia, I'd say. The good hands that replace your bad hands are on average much weaker than the good hands you lost to Minion. They only have 4 cards, you see.

Of course, what you need to defend against that is a card that can give you a good hand even if you only start with four cards in hand...

[Doom_Shark]

Don't know about other places, but in the official play dominion app/program/website, the ai's love minion megaturns, and I tend to agree.

The AI bots are ludicrously weak and easy to beat, and getting strategy ideas from Bots is not a recommendable idea.

Excuse me for not being an expert player then. And my love for minion megaturns is not because I got it from the bots, I had been doing that IRL long before I discovered the website. Thanks for ruining my self-esteem, by the way.

[McGarnacle]

Don't know about other places, but in the official play dominion app/program/website, the ai's love minion megaturns, and I tend to agree.

The AI bots are ludicrously weak and easy to beat, and getting strategy ideas from Bots is not a recommendable idea.

Excuse me for not being an expert player then. And my love for minion megaturns is not because I got it from the bots, I had been doing that IRL long before I discovered the website. Thanks for ruining my self-esteem, by the way.

Minion is a good attack, personally my least-favorite to play against, but it is not quite on par with some other attacks, in my opinion.

[wachsmuth]

I voted Mountebank. I don't know if it's better or worse than Cultist, but it is a lot more fun. So yeah, not really what you asked for, but that was the tiebreaker for me.

[Awaclus]

Btw, do you guys think Death Cart and Counting House are at all viable counters against Cultist/Mountebank respectively?

Death Cart usually becomes useful on a Cultist board where it would not have been useful without Cultist, but it doesn't counter Cultist (i.e. your opponent is still going to go for it, and unless you go for it as well, you're going to lose). Counting House benefits from Mountebank, but Mountebank probably doesn't make Counting House viable where it wasn't viable before, although when Counting House is a powerful card in the kingdom, Mountebank might very rarely be even worth skipping because of it.

[Beyond Awesome]

Mountebank gives out more junk. Two MB hits is the equivalent of being bit by cultist 4 times. 3 MB hits is the same as six cultist hits. Now mind you, copper is better than ruins and while cultist is fast and stacks, MB keeps giving. Both are very strong attacks. Cultist is a close second for me. However, I think playing an engine with cultist on the board is harder than when MB is present, bit I think this has now to do with players not buying enough MBs.

Minions real strength is in cycling. Ghost Ship is very weak and either very easy to counter or hard to play every turn, or just outclassed by the presence of another attack. However, when I started playing, it felt like the strongest attack in the game. Getting hit every turn was not fun. But, once you understand the card, it tends to become easy to play around.

[McGarnacle]

What's everyone's opinion of Haunted Woods?

[Seprix]

Don't know about other places, but in the official play dominion app/program/website, the ai's love minion megaturns, and I tend to agree.

The AI bots are ludicrously weak and easy to beat, and getting strategy ideas from Bots is not a recommendable idea.

Excuse me for not being an expert player then. And my love for minion megaturns is not because I got it from the bots, I had been doing that IRL long before I discovered the website. Thanks for ruining my self-esteem, by the way.

Well, that's too bad.

What's everyone's opinion of Haunted Woods?

Weaker in the beginning, gets stronger towards the end game (assuming you're greening). Not the best attack, but a pretty good one, I'd think.

[McGarnacle]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

[Roadrunner7671]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

That's the thing: there really isn't a counter to Cultist. It's too fast.

[Awaclus]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

Just getting them yourself is the best counter.