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[Awaclus]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

[Haddock]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes".

It's possible to make mistakes that don't immediately decrease our chances of winning to insignificant levels.  Playing well does not mean playing perfectly.

Don't you see?  If people like you didn't automatically assume that someone was scum as soon as they made a mistake, then small mistakes wouldn't drastically decrease our chances of winning!  But while you're around we HAVE to play perfectly or lose immediately. 

[Joseph2302]

I'll respond to stuff tomorrow, not in the right frame of mind to do it competently now.

[silverspawn]

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

I wish we could make these kinds of conclusions

[Awaclus]

Don't you see?  If people like you didn't automatically assume that someone was scum as soon as they made a mistake, then small mistakes wouldn't drastically decrease our chances of winning!  But while you're around we HAVE to play perfectly or lose immediately.

Not automatically assuming that someone is scum as soon as they make a mistake drastically decreases our chances of winning, because that way we can't tell who's actually scum and who isn't.

We win when we play perfectly, so I don't see the problem.

[EgorK]

I was more busy than I anticipated. Sorry about that, would I know I would not sign up for the game.

Joseph is ok lynch. Consider this intent to hammer, though I'm not sure when is the next time I'll be online

[Joseph2302]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is not an ok lynch.

FTFY

[Awaclus]

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

Yes it is. You should have learned from experience that you shouldn't do stupid things.

[Joseph2302]

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

Yes it is. You should have learned from experience that you shouldn't do stupid things.

But I haven't. Even in games where I try not to do stupid things, I usually end up doing them.

[Awaclus]

But I haven't. Even in games where I try not to do stupid things, I usually end up doing them.

[x] Doubt

[pingpongsam]

I do stupid things a lot. In and outside Mafia. The question du jour is if these last minutes for Joseph look like scum hoping for a reprieve or town commiserating a pending mislynch.

[Joseph2302]

I do stupid things a lot. In and outside Mafia. The question du jour is if these last minutes for Joseph look like scum hoping for a reprieve or town commiserating a pending mislynch.

You can lynch me if you want, it isn't the worst lynch, although it's not the best either.

But first think about this question:

When I flip town (from everyone else's perspective it's "If I flip town"), then who were the scum on my wagon?

[silverspawn]

When I flip town (from everyone else's perspective it's "If I flip town"), then who were the scum on my wagon?

Let's see

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork
Egork (4): e, silverspawn, Joseph2302, J Reggie
e (2): gkrieg13, Haddock
Joseph2302 (6): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, pingpongsam, chairs, iguanaiguana, Seprix

interesting. Looks worst for chairs and Awaclus I think. Best for ADK and Awaclus if you flip scum.

[silverspawn]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

[Joseph2302]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

[Haddock]

Seprix announced it.

[pingpongsam]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

I know, it's funny how there's no even slow hammer, here. Like it's being resisted because...

[Joseph2302]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

I know, it's funny how there's no even slow hammer, here. Like it's being resisted because...

Well, Egor has intent to hammer.

And I'm considering just self-hammering- wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for town.

[Joseph2302]

By the way, I'm VT.

[silverspawn]

can't we just stop this and lynch Egork instead?

[pingpongsam]

What's up with all the suicidal townspeople?

[iguanaiguana]

It's a symptom of the disease

[iguanaiguana]

I kinda think Joseph and Egor are both town...

[iguanaiguana]

Like, basically the way I'm reading this is that scum is sitting on the Egor wagon saying "Let's lynch him instead" so that tomorrow we have another mislynch to do instead of lynching them.