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Author Topic: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff  (Read 2236 times)

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vulturesrow

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I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« on: January 20, 2012, 12:42:45 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-213837-602ec4c8.html

I feel like Im trying to think though my buys, not bloat my deck with a bunch of stuff and then I lose to stuff like this where the guy just spams me to death with peddler and grand market. Really starting to get down on myself and this game.  :( Any advice welcome.
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jonts26

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 01:03:23 am »
+3

Peddlers and Grand Markets don't bloat your deck. Since they get +1 card/action it's sort of like they arent even there. If there's a way to mass them quickly, you will most likely win. This guy seems to have a pretty good plan. He's using salvager to accelerate himself to grand markets, which in turn buy lots of peddlers and more grand markets. Also the salvager does help the deck stay somewhat thin.

As for your play - you really don't want a lighthouse here, probably. It's worse than silver. The only possible benefit is that it lowers peddler costs, but there's enough other actions to do that. Mine isn't a great card in general, and it's even worse in fast games. You only got to play it 3 times. That's not enough to justify buying over a much better card like cartographer. I think in general you need to come into these matches with a game plan. Peddler and Grand Market are both really nice cards to get, but they take a little extra work over other cards because of their odd buy rules. So trying to figure out a way to get them is often a good plan, though don't fall into the trap of trying to get them when the board doesn't really facilitate it.
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jonts26

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 01:05:55 am »
+2

And one more thing to add - there are a lot of sublet intricacies of dominion. It can be frustrating when you think you have the better plan and lose. Well maybe you actually do or not. The ability to assess the correct strategy on a board simply comes with experience. Don't let a few losses get you down. Keep on playing.
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Elyv

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 03:08:33 am »
+1

In addition to what jonts26 said, I think Salvager should be great on this board since you can salvage cheaper stuff to help you get fast grand markets, and later on you can salvage peddlers for a ton of money. Also it provides a tiny bit of deckthinning, which is always nice in cantrip-based decks like his.
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ftl

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 03:14:54 am »
+1

You may have an incorrect idea of what makes a deck 'Bloated'.

It's not that 'lots of card bad, small number of cards good'. A deck is 'bloated' if it has lots of cards in it that STOP it from getting to OTHER cards that the deck wants. There's nothing wrong with lots of cards, as long as you can GET to all of them.

Even after buying all those green cards, his deck had: 9 green cards, 4 coppers, one salvager, and one lighthouse that 'stop' chains.So he had 14 'stop the chain' cards - when he drew 5 of those in hand, then the fun was over and he had to play out his hand and buy things. He had 8 GMs, 8 peddlers, and 2 cartographers - but all those cards give +1 card AND +1 action! So you go through all of them and they don't stop you from drawing subsequent things.

You, on the other hand, had 7 green cards, 10 treasures, 1 mine, and 3 lighthouses. So you had 21 things that prevent you from going on, whereas he had only 14. (And that's not even pointing out that of his green cards, he bought 5(!) of them on the very last turn - so before that, he only had 9 cards that could stop a chain. )

Your deck might have had fewer cards in it (you had 25 to his 33),  but his played like a much slimmer deck.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 03:25:33 am by ftl »
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ftl

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 03:22:08 am »
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Actually, I just looked you up on CouncilRoom, and you're not doing bad at all! Your record is 30-31 - you're almost at 50%!

It's just that over the last day, you went 1-6. That's okay, bad streaks happen. But no wonder you're discouraged, losing streaks like that suck.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 03:24:37 am by ftl »
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ftl

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 06:09:49 am »
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Oh, and one thing. You say that you're spending time thinking through your buys, and that's good. I would also say it makes sense to, at the beginning of the game, look at the cards and sketch out your overall strategy. That way, regardless of whether you win or lose, you can think about 'did my strategy play out the way I thought it would' and 'was my plan good' - you'll spend the same amount of time thinking about buys, but a lot of it will be front-loaded.

Like,  looking at this game, I can't really see what your plan was. Dominion isn't just a game of individual cards, individual buys. We can point to individual cards and say 'mine is bad here, lighthouse is bad here, peddler and grand market are good here' but it's probably makes more sense to talk about the strategy as a whole, because typically cards are good or bad because they help or hinder the overall strategy.

Here - your opponent had a well-defined strategy. They were going for a cantrip engine - a deck full of Grand Markets and Peddlers, aiming to be able to cycle lots of them for lots of cash and buys. They immediately got started with a Salvager to trash things; the early silver was trashed on turn 6. They got just one gold, and no other treasures, getting just one lighthouse and cartographers instead of silvers. This let them get to Grand Markets and then to lots of Peddlers and finally to Provinces. It was a good strategy, probably the best one around.

You got multiple golds and silvers, so your strategy was primarily Big Money. It was supported by one Mine, one Cartographer, two Peddlers, and three Lighthouses. I don't really see how those cards go together, and I'm not really sure what critique to say since I'm not sure why you bought them the way you did. Those are all good cards - but not necessarily good the way you used them.
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vulturesrow

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Re: I dont get why I keep losing to this stuff
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 08:26:56 am »
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Thanks for all the kind words. Immediately after I vented on the forum, I went back and looked at the game and realized how good his deck actually was and also that I wasnt accounting for how the cantrip type  cards dont really bloat your deck.

As someone pointed out, I was on the tail end of a 6 game cooler (the game I won was the last game of the night and it was actually a pretty good game so I felt a little better after) so I was really frustrated. Reminds of those bad nights from poker days. And Im not sure, I appreciate the encouragment, but Im not sure an almost 50% win rate is particularly good. ;)
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