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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training  (Read 2307 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« on: March 24, 2016, 09:39:20 am »
+4


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- How does this compare to other bonus token Events?
- What are some good target cards for this?
- How far into the game do you want it?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 10:04:35 am »
0

I think you usually want to have built abit before you buy this so you can make use of it. This is probably best used around the time you pick up a +buy card in an engine. As most token events, it's best with cantrips. Peddler variants seem to be best for this, since Peddler alone isn't enough as your sole payload, but trained Peddlers are.

Fun fact: A pack of trained Rats can eat a Colony each turn.
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mameluke

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 10:18:23 am »
+1

Training is outstanding. You want to put this on a pile that you can gain lots of cards from, and quickly. Magpie is a clear choice, Port might work well, Rats is an interesting choice if you have Fortress in your hand (or enough junk to trash each turn). You'll want to focus on $3s (turn your Schemes into Treasury+!) and $2s (Pearl Diver and Vagrant suddenly do a lot for you).

The problem is the same with any token -- the limitation of how many cards are in the pile. Your opponent is likely to pick the same target as you (especially if there is only one cheap cantrip on the board), and there is a huge difference between getting only 3 of your upgraded card vs. 7 of them. Did your opponent gain half of the Magpie pile last turn? Better move your +$1 token somewhere else.

I've never tried putting the token on $5s like Market, Bazaar, Cartographer, etc. but if there is cost reduction and +buy around, this seems reasonable.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 10:19:15 am »
0

Turn your Peddlers into activated Conspirators, turn your Conspirators into Gold cantrips, turn your Hamlets into Oasises (unless you discard twice, and you don't even have to discard!), it's very very nice to have. A relatively inexpensive way to increase your payload quickly. I think you want the engine more or less set up first, then set up this event on what card you have a ton of. A better one time buy than Gold, and it's worth more if you can play all your cards in one turn.

Win the magpie or port split big time? ...you know where I'm going.

If there is no +buy, this event's value is significantly diminished.

An inquiry: In a Smithy BM deck, Is it better to buy this Event and apply it to your Smithy over the first Gold?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 10:23:59 am by Seprix »
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DG

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 10:55:25 am »
+3

An inquiry: In a Smithy BM deck, Is it better to buy this Event and apply it to your Smithy over the first Gold?

Not at all. As well as a drop in average income, I'm guessing you'll get the higher income only on the smithy turns when you don't need it.

Scheme and training might be interesting.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 11:10:02 am by DG »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 12:10:02 pm »
0

An inquiry: In a Smithy BM deck, Is it better to buy this Event and apply it to your Smithy over the first Gold?

Not at all. As well as a drop in average income, I'm guessing you'll get the higher income only on the smithy turns when you don't need it.

Scheme and training might be interesting.
This is just an always-active Treasury, right?
Similarly, a Pathfound Scheme is essentially an in-play Hireling.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 12:17:42 pm »
0

An inquiry: In a Smithy BM deck, Is it better to buy this Event and apply it to your Smithy over the first Gold?

Not at all. As well as a drop in average income, I'm guessing you'll get the higher income only on the smithy turns when you don't need it.

Are we assuming that you can only play up to one Smithy per turn in the hypothetical Smithy-BM deck? If so, buying Pathfinding for Smithy is almost like buying a Peddler for $6. Okay, more like two Peddlers if you have two Smithies, but you still would rather have Gold to help spike $8.
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amoffett11

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 12:27:21 pm »
0

For $6, all your Markets can become Grand Markets.  Hey, and they'll even let you use your coppers to pay for it too. 
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wachsmuth

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 01:17:59 pm »
0

Maybe this is not so bad in other BM decks though. For instance, I can see it being a good buy if you're playing Noble Brigand-Big Money. Or in the 1 card kingdom of Squire, hell yes I'm playing Squire-Big Money with Training on Squire.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 12:05:53 am »
0

Boss with Candlestick Maker. Drain the CM pile as fast as possible. Train. Province every turn (ish). Hit rematch.
Seems better with a lot of other cards that you can turn into peddlers and such.
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mameluke

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 12:17:02 am »
0

Boss with Candlestick Maker. Drain the CM pile as fast as possible. Train. Province every turn (ish). Hit rematch.

Yeah, you can probably pick up all of the CM pretty quickly, but when it comes time to playing them, not having +1 Card really hurts.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 08:03:02 am »
0

Training might be my favorite of the token-events. It is powerful, but not quite as game-warping as the other ones. Don't get me wrong, + is nice, but it doesn't completely change a card, the way Lost Arts or Seaway does.
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 08:19:32 am »
0

Boss with Candlestick Maker. Drain the CM pile as fast as possible. Train. Province every turn (ish). Hit rematch.
Seems better with a lot of other cards that you can turn into peddlers and such.

I dunno, this actually seems pretty good. Seems like it would hit Province 2 out of every 3 turns or so, and the coin tokens would carry over if you don't. The plus buy and coin token is what makes it good here.

Of course, Cultist BM loves this more than any other variant.
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Hertz_Doughnut

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 01:37:38 pm »
+8

Boss with Candlestick Maker. Drain the CM pile as fast as possible. Train. Province every turn (ish). Hit rematch.
Seems better with a lot of other cards that you can turn into peddlers and such.

Nope.  Trained-CM is so fast you don't have time for engine-like considerations.  For example, 6 Provinces by Turn 14.  (Trained CMs beat trained Scheme.)

Also, you can 3-pile very quickly with trained CMs.  In this one, my trained CMs beat trained Bakers.  Once Native Villages were depleted on turn 12,  I ran the estates and saved coin tokens for a last-turn Province.  Since his deck only had one +Buy, I controlled when the estates would finish, and could time it to end when I had more VPs.

Training + Candlestick Maker is wicked fast.

Kind regards,
HD
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 01:40:02 pm by Hertz_Doughnut »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 02:34:41 pm »
+2

Boss with Candlestick Maker. Drain the CM pile as fast as possible. Train. Province every turn (ish). Hit rematch.
Seems better with a lot of other cards that you can turn into peddlers and such.

Nope.  Trained-CM is so fast you don't have time for engine-like considerations.  For example, 6 Provinces by Turn 14.  (Trained CMs beat trained Scheme.)

Also, you can 3-pile very quickly with trained CMs.  In this one, my trained CMs beat trained Bakers.  Once Native Villages were depleted on turn 12,  I ran the estates and saved coin tokens for a last-turn Province.  Since his deck only had one +Buy, I controlled when the estates would finish, and could time it to end when I had more VPs.

Training + Candlestick Maker is wicked fast.

Kind regards,
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 04:04:51 pm »
+3

Nope.  Trained-CM is so fast you don't have time for engine-like considerations.  For example, 6 Provinces by Turn 14.  (Trained CMs beat trained Scheme.)

Okay, so it turns out that this is a really good best case and has a lot of support.
From what I can tell, the baseline strategy is buy a bunch of Candlestick Makers, buy training on them as quickly as possible, and buy green as soon as the Candlestick Maker pile is empty. This is pretty easy to simulate, and with that strategy, one averages 14.5 turns to 4 provinces, which is pretty good for such a mindless one - about the same as Double Jack.
This particular board happens to contain Scavenger and Governor, the former of which has a very high upside when placed in BM and the latter of which significantly speeds up any board: with Governor, 6 provinces in 14 turns is pretty bad and with Scavenger, a single case of it happening is unsurprising.

Also, you can 3-pile very quickly with trained CMs.  In this one, my trained CMs beat trained Bakers.  Once Native Villages were depleted on turn 12,  I ran the estates and saved coin tokens for a last-turn Province.  Since his deck only had one +Buy, I controlled when the estates would finish, and could time it to end when I had more VPs.

This is true whenever you have significantly more gains than the opponent, and in this case you were fortunate that your opponent did not play a more focused strategy. For example, a money strategy in which 3 Gears and 1 Dungeon are bought is able to buy 4 Provinces in on average 13 turns. Once again, although you won, the win significantly underperformed the board's potential.

Training + Candlestick Maker, although interesting and potentially proper on certain weaker boards, is just not that fast.

Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 04:19:56 pm »
0

6 Provinces by T14 is okay. It's not fantastic any more. I've seen games end with Provinces gone on T11 now with some of these Empire cards.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 04:24:10 pm »
+3

my trained CMs beat trained Bakers

Makes sense.  Trained Baker fights with a loaf of bread, trained CM has a candlestick.  Who's gonna win?
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2016, 05:49:11 pm »
+1

Training + 8/4 split on port + double tactician tactician + salvager = fun game
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 10:08:21 am »
0

I just got ripped apart by some trained advisors on a board where it was possible to gain many advisors quickly.  Don't let this happen to you.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Training
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 10:23:22 am »
0

So it turns out, Training is pretty good, and really quite simple. Buy it and put it on a card you have a lot of, for “free” economy. That’s really all there is to it, there’s not a lot else to understand, other than “gaining a lot of the same thing quickly obviously gets better”. It being simple doesn’t mean it’s not very good - quite the contrary, it’s awesome, and basically always worth it as long as you have at least 3 of something you try to play every turn.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 10:24:35 am by Chris is me »
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