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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller  (Read 6323 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« on: March 21, 2016, 08:51:15 am »
+4


A long time ago, in a gal kingdom far, far away...

-How does this compare to other non-terminal draw or sifters?
-What Treasures would you most want to play with this?
-How many would you want?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 09:08:19 am »
0

This seems really nice to enable strong draw even if theres no trashing. Obviously nice tricks available with menagerie. I hope they get adventures out soon so i can play with those cards rather than just speculate. Well, it is almost end of March after all :)
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 09:34:35 am »
+6

Quarry. Because I like gaining Grand Markets with my Ironworks. :D
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 09:41:39 am »
0

Indeed, haven't thought of that. After Black Market another card that allows to prematurely play treasure cards. Other than Black Market, this premature payment does not allow Tactician shenanigans, but treasure side effects affecting action phase are fair game. Well played.
 
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 09:57:39 am »
0

Storyteller creates so many dilemmas I've almost never played with it. It's trading payload for non terminal draw a lot of the time, which seems nice. I also like the synergy with Treasure effects in the action phase - Coin of the Realm and Quarry being the most notable things.

What really messes me up about the card is how when you play it, you have to use up all of your accumulated coin. You play your Peddlers and GMs, and then you have a hand with Storyteller and some stop cards - do you give up all of your accumulated money to keep going, or accept your semi-dud turn? These kind of dilemmas are probably not as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be but they dissuade me from wanting to use this card.

Using Copper with this isn't super good - it's a less flexible Cellar with +1 Card then. Using it with bigger money is nice, and it might give certain engines a reason to invest in Gold or even Silver gainers.

I dunno, this is a card I think will take a long time for me to figure out.
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werothegreat

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 10:07:26 am »
+5

I like this with Treasure Trove.  You end up getting lots of Treasure in your deck - more than enough to both fuel your Storytellers and still buy stuff.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 10:23:41 am »
0

What really messes me up about the card is how when you play it, you have to use up all of your accumulated coin. You play your Peddlers and GMs, and then you have a hand with Storyteller and some stop cards - do you give up all of your accumulated money to keep going, or accept your semi-dud turn? These kind of dilemmas are probably not as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be but they dissuade me from wanting to use this card.

That's only a dilemma if you are buying all your cards. If you are primarily trashing and gaining cards, perhaps with the remodel family, then storyteller will cycle the deck.

Quote
Using Copper with this isn't super good - it's a less flexible Cellar with +1 Card then. Using it with bigger money is nice, and it might give certain engines a reason to invest in Gold or even Silver gainers.

If the remaining cards in your deck are significantly better than copper, the storyteller is giving significant benefit.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 11:06:55 am »
0

What really messes me up about the card is how when you play it, you have to use up all of your accumulated coin. You play your Peddlers and GMs, and then you have a hand with Storyteller and some stop cards - do you give up all of your accumulated money to keep going, or accept your semi-dud turn? These kind of dilemmas are probably not as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be but they dissuade me from wanting to use this card.

That's only a dilemma if you are buying all your cards. If you are primarily trashing and gaining cards, perhaps with the remodel family, then storyteller will cycle the deck.

Okay, but games where you generally don't buy cards are certainly not most games! Even in Remodel games you're often buying the cards you later Remodel...

Quote
Quote
Using Copper with this isn't super good - it's a less flexible Cellar with +1 Card then. Using it with bigger money is nice, and it might give certain engines a reason to invest in Gold or even Silver gainers.

If the remaining cards in your deck are significantly better than copper, the storyteller is giving significant benefit.

Yeah, but I'm comparing Storyteller to other sifting cards - not to no card at all.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 02:16:58 pm »
0

Playing Storyteller on a Silver is kind of like having paid $8 for a card that reads "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +3 Cards" (you're not guaranteed to always draw the Silver with Storyteller, but lets assume so for the sake of argument).  With Gold it's like an $11 "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +6 Cards".  And so on for Bank/Platinum/whatever.  These price points seem reasonable to me.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 02:26:02 pm »
0

Playing Storyteller on a Silver is kind of like having paid $8 for a card that reads "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +3 Cards" (you're not guaranteed to always draw the Silver with Storyteller, but lets assume so for the sake of argument).  With Gold it's like an $11 "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +6 Cards".  And so on for Bank/Platinum/whatever.  These price points seem reasonable to me.

Where does the +1 Coin come from?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 02:32:30 pm »
0

Playing Storyteller on a Silver is kind of like having paid $8 for a card that reads "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +3 Cards" (you're not guaranteed to always draw the Silver with Storyteller, but lets assume so for the sake of argument).  With Gold it's like an $11 "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +6 Cards".  And so on for Bank/Platinum/whatever.  These price points seem reasonable to me.

With a Silver it's [+3 Cards, +1 Action]. With a Gold it's [+4 Cards, +1 Action]. Of course, you're hopefully playing more than one Treasure with your Storyteller.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 02:38:28 pm »
0

Playing Storyteller on a Silver is kind of like having paid $8 for a card that reads "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +3 Cards" (you're not guaranteed to always draw the Silver with Storyteller, but lets assume so for the sake of argument).  With Gold it's like an $11 "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +6 Cards".  And so on for Bank/Platinum/whatever.  These price points seem reasonable to me.

With a Silver it's [+3 Cards, +1 Action]. With a Gold it's [+4 Cards, +1 Action]. Of course, you're hopefully playing more than one Treasure with your Storyteller.

Oh right, whoops.  I was thinking of Apprentice, hence the +3 for Silver, +6 for Gold.  But does the +1 Coin from Storyteller count towards the + cards?  I didn't think it did, but seems like you do.

So now I actually feel Storyteller is pretty weak, unless you really wanted draw.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 02:40:28 pm »
+4

Playing Storyteller on a Silver is kind of like having paid $8 for a card that reads "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +3 Cards" (you're not guaranteed to always draw the Silver with Storyteller, but lets assume so for the sake of argument).  With Gold it's like an $11 "+1 Action, +1 Coin, +6 Cards".  And so on for Bank/Platinum/whatever.  These price points seem reasonable to me.

With a Silver it's [+3 Cards, +1 Action]. With a Gold it's [+4 Cards, +1 Action]. Of course, you're hopefully playing more than one Treasure with your Storyteller.

Oh right, whoops.  I was thinking of Apprentice, hence the +3 for Silver, +6 for Gold.  But does the +1 Coin from Storyteller count towards the + cards?  I didn't think it did, but seems like you do.

It definitely does use up the +$1 from Storyteller itself. It says "pay all of your $".

So now I actually feel Storyteller is pretty weak, unless you really wanted draw.

You always really want draw!
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 02:55:50 pm »
0

It definitely does use up the +$1 from Storyteller itself. It says "pay all of your $".

Oh cool.  And so even coins from before you played Storyteller get counted?  That seems crazy.
EDIT: Just realized, if it gives you +1 card per coin, why doesn't it just say +1 card instead???

You always really want draw!

You always want coins too.  What do you want more?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 02:59:19 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 02:58:04 pm »
0

I don' think anyone has addressed this yet: how many Storytellers will you usually want?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 03:00:06 pm »
0

You always want coins too.  What do you want more?

If the average value of a card in your deck is greater than $1, then you want to draw cards more. With Storyteller, you just have to be careful not to pay for card draw that ends up not drawing you a card.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 03:08:28 pm »
0

It definitely does use up the +$1 from Storyteller itself. It says "pay all of your $".

Oh cool.  And so even coins from before you played Storyteller get counted?  That seems crazy.
EDIT: Just realized, if it gives you +1 card per coin, why doesn't it just say +1 card instead???

If it said "+1 Card", then you'd be able to play the card you drew with Storyteller, making the card slightly stronger. The +1 Coin instead is meant to weaken the card slightly by only giving you the cantrip effect after you choose what treasures to play.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2016, 03:11:33 pm »
+1

EDIT: Just realized, if it gives you +1 card per coin, why doesn't it just say +1 card instead???

It speeds the card play up a bit by consolidating the drawing into one effect. And it's a small nerf to not have +1 card come first. There's some discussion about this in the Adventures Previews thread for Storyteller. If I remember correctly, that part of the discussion even got heated, so that's something to look forward to if you read!
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2016, 03:25:36 pm »
0

EDIT: Just realized, if it gives you +1 card per coin, why doesn't it just say +1 card instead???

It speeds the card play up a bit by consolidating the drawing into one effect. And it's a small nerf to not have +1 card come first. There's some discussion about this in the Adventures Previews thread for Storyteller. If I remember correctly, that part of the discussion even got heated, so that's something to look forward to if you read!

Makes sense but seems like it could just be after the text part.  But whatever.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 03:57:22 pm »
0

EDIT: Just realized, if it gives you +1 card per coin, why doesn't it just say +1 card instead???

It speeds the card play up a bit by consolidating the drawing into one effect. And it's a small nerf to not have +1 card come first. There's some discussion about this in the Adventures Previews thread for Storyteller. If I remember correctly, that part of the discussion even got heated, so that's something to look forward to if you read!

Makes sense but seems like it could just be after the text part.  But whatever.

But that looks ugly... vanilla bonus, text, vanilla bonus.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2016, 04:00:58 pm »
+2

Storyteller has an interesting interaction with coin tokens by the way, in that they provide a way to "save" money from being transformed into cards.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2016, 06:11:50 pm »
0

I'm not sure how I feel about Storyteller yet. I played like two games with it and each time I bought a couple. It worked nicely, but since Adventures is so new and inviting you to screw around with a lot of stuff that actually diverts from winning the game, I couldn't tell, if Storyteller was good (in those kingdoms) or both players were just playing really slow decks.

I do know this. I LOVE how thematic this card is. Or better: How thematic I think it is, because I didn't read anything about its backstory and I can't be sure that DXV intended it that way. Especially when playing with lots of card from Adventures, you're telling something of a story with your cards. And as long as you're paying the Storyteller, the saga continues. Love it.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2016, 07:20:57 pm »
0

Lost treasure + upgrade (3 of them) + story teller + a source of plus buy + militia worked pretty well.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2016, 08:35:31 pm »
+2

Storyteller is great!  I think it's often more powerful than Stables.  Storyteller works decently as a Copper-sifter, but the real value comes from paying better treasures to Storyteller.  Storyteller has great synergy with treasure gainers: the Page line and Amulet stand out here.  Treasure Trove is good, but it competes at the same price point as Storyteller.  With several Storytellers and some bigger treasures, it's pretty easy to draw your deck without trashing Coppers.  The issue becomes reliability.  If you've got a lot of treasures in your deck, you want to start with a Storyteller in hand to kick off.  So, Storyteller really likes Save, Gear, Haven, Courtyard, and the like.

Storyteller has a complicated relationship with Peddler-style cards.  It can be powerful to turn Peddlers into Labs, but sometimes your draw order doesn't work out and you have non-optimal payload.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 10:38:59 am »
0

Storyteller/Remodel family/Gold gainer is very strong and ends the game very quickly.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 02:28:48 pm »
+2

Oh, yeah.  I forgot about the synergy with Governor!  I played a game with these two and ended the game very quickly indeed.  With a few Storytellers, you basically never need to use Governor to draw (unless a Storyteller misses your opening hand).  Instead, you can flood your opponents with Silver and gain super-Labs that turn into Provinces later.  Not bad.  If an opponent mirrors, you can use some of your Governors to remodel Silvers into more Governors and Storytellers.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2016, 07:30:27 pm »
+1

this is the adventures card that's come the most naturally to me.  pretty sure it's got my highest win% from the set right now!

that reflects on the fact that i'm still not entirely comfortable with engines based on trash-for-benefit or other such gaining, and prefer to go for the "draw a deck full of gold/platinum, buy 2-3 provinces or colonies per turn" variety.  this is like the best freakin card for those decks man!!!!!!!!

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2016, 07:34:03 pm »
0

this is the adventures card that's come the most naturally to me.  pretty sure it's got my highest win% from the set right now!

that reflects on the fact that i'm still not entirely comfortable with engines based on trash-for-benefit or other such gaining, and prefer to go for the "draw a deck full of gold/platinum, buy 2-3 provinces or colonies per turn" variety.  this is like the best freakin card for those decks man!!!!!!!!

Funny, it's the opposite to me! I think next to Artificier this is the card I misuse the most from the new set!

I find it really hard to accurately determine how many treasures I need to use to draw my deck.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2016, 04:57:57 am »
0

I think it's quite a strong card, that work well in big deck. Often in engines, you want a few treasures to give you money to buy things, but not too much so you can draw all your actions cards easily. With storyteller, you feel more comfortable with these silver or gold gainers. They are the fuel you need. I really like that.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2016, 07:35:05 am »
+1

Yeah, Storyteller is super great, and the correct way to play it is "just buy it you dumb idiot you'll figure it out as you go". In any game where you have a bunch of Treasure, Storyteller comes to the rescue. It's just fantastic.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2016, 07:44:14 am »
+2

Yeah, Storyteller is super great, and the correct way to play it is "just buy it you dumb idiot you'll figure it out as you go". In any game where you have a bunch of Treasure, Storyteller comes to the rescue. It's just fantastic.
I love story teller with the page line. It turns all those silver into labs. One of these days I'm gonna open page/storyteller.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2016, 08:03:59 am »
+2

I somehow keep forgetting you lose all of your $ after playing Storyteller, whether you put any Treasures in play or not.  ::)
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2016, 10:22:11 am »
+1

The problem with Storyteller is getting to it. Once you get to it, you draw freaking everything, but first you have to get to it. If your deck is cluttered with tons of treasures, it can be hard sometimes. It also somewhat combos/nombos with Warehouse, since while it does help you sift, it also decreases your handsize for less treasure draw.

Because of this problem, Storyteller almost feels like a 'fixed' Counting House in a really weird way, since you can use it in the beginning of the shuffle or the end, and it affects all treasures instead of just Copper.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2016, 01:58:46 pm »
0

maybe this is part of why i do well, but i actually don't like buying it real early.  if you can only tell stories about copper, it's a worse warehouse that costs $5.  only worth it if you have travelers or goons or some other special thing you wanna play early & often.

like if stables & storyteller were on the same board, i'd get like 2 stables then go ham on the storytellers

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2016, 02:17:57 pm »
0

maybe this is part of why i do well, but i actually don't like buying it real early.  if you can only tell stories about copper, it's a worse warehouse that costs $5.  only worth it if you have travelers or goons or some other special thing you wanna play early & often.

like if stables & storyteller were on the same board, i'd get like 2 stables then go ham on the storytellers
Unlike Warehouse, Storyteller doesn't reduce your hand size (Horn of Plenty, Crown shenanigans and a few other edge cases excepted).
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2018, 12:15:59 pm »
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I think we have to refresh this topic since its article is still conjecture based. My list of synergies and antisynergies:

Synergies:
- Scheme and Star Chart are very good.
- Cards that enable topdecking are good substitutes for above (and Royal Seal is definitely the superior one here).
- Fool's Gold, especially with +Buy
- Cards that benefit from shifting like Travellers or Highway
- Silver gainers, like Lucky Coin and Jack of Trades
- Gold Gainers, like Treasure Trove and
- Almost any Kingdom treasure, really.

Antisynergies
- Traditional engines.
- It's generally poor with virtual money.
- Cards that dislike treasures, like City Quarter and Poor House 
- Slogs
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2018, 01:54:38 pm »
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I think we have to refresh this topic since its article is still conjecture based. My list of synergies and antisynergies:

Synergies:
- Scheme and Star Chart are very good.
- Cards that enable topdecking are good substitutes for above (and Royal Seal is definitely the superior one here).
- Fool's Gold, especially with +Buy
- Cards that benefit from shifting like Travellers or Highway
- Silver gainers, like Lucky Coin and Jack of Trades
- Gold Gainers, like Treasure Trove and
- Almost any Kingdom treasure, really.

Antisynergies
- Traditional engines.
- It's generally poor with virtual money.
- Cards that dislike treasures, like City Quarter and Poor House 
- Slogs

You may wish to check the blog for a great Storyteler article published recently. https://dominionstrategy.com/2018/10/04/storyteller/
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Storyteller
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2018, 05:30:38 pm »
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Antisynergies
- Traditional engines.
- It's generally poor with virtual money.
- Cards that dislike treasures, like City Quarter and Poor House

Do you mean to say these are anti-synergies when there is Copper thinning and other good draw? Cus without those 2 things, that's kind of when ST shines.

- Not sure what exactly constitutes a "traditional" engine, but if they include Coppers / no Copper-thinning, why wouldn't they like ST?

- ST synergizes with virtual money when you need the draw, and anti-synergizes when you don't need the draw. For example Swamp Hag in play + a ST in your starting hand effectively sacrifices 3 coins for a large, reliable starting hand (ideally snowballing into much more than 3 more coins).

- Again, with no Copper-thinning, things like City Quarter may very will synergize with a couple ST's. And obviously without Copper thinning you'd have to be in edge case territory to have Poor House be good.
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