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Author Topic: Wispers of the Old Gods  (Read 23757 times)

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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2016, 03:24:52 pm »
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You don't have to play these cards as the first card on your turn, meaning you can control how much mana to spend on them by playing other cards first. For the Priest card, this means you can avoid playing it at 9-10 mana where most of the minions rely ona Battlecry to gain value (we'll see if the new expansion changes this with its other old gods). Playing this new Priest card at 5 or 6 mana feels like the sweet spot where many minions are formidable on their own.
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popsofctown

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2016, 03:37:35 pm »
+1

I think 8 most reliably avoids hitting something that's supposed to be based on a battlecry, but 6 is the real sweet spot since you don't actually usually want a gameplan based on playing 8 drop minions.

I'm pretty sure healing yourself and then playing it on turn 10 is better than just playing it, interestingly.

The best part of the card is that it can fill out any part of your curve in a pinch, where otherwise you might have wasted mana, and that's huge.

It's a very exciting card.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2016, 03:52:56 pm »
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I'm pretty sure healing yourself and then playing it on turn 10 is better than just playing it, interestingly.

I wasn't sure about that with the loss of Naxx and GvG, but then I remembered Tirion, Chromaggus, and even just Ironbark. Even an 8/8 is probably what you'd get at 9-10 mana, but at least you get a Hero Power weaved in.
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Jorbles

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2016, 04:02:07 pm »
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I think that Mage spell is Arena playable. It's very versatile and can be used for early game removal or late game, which is why I think it's good in Arena. Strictly worse than every other Mage spell though at its mana cost though. Maybe you could do some tricks with it in an Antonidas/Flamewaker sort of deck though. Antonidas, 3 mana of spells + Forbidden Flame x 2 isn't terrible.

The Priest one seems really good though.
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KingZog3

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2016, 04:04:36 pm »
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Wait, Mage spell is worse than every single dmg spell at every mana cost in the entire game.

Forbidden Torch?  Or whatever it's called.  The fireball for 3.  It's better than that.

At the time yes, but Torch puts a 3 mana Fireball in your deck. Drain life is worse, but you get to heal 2. Ok yeah, it's better than drain life, which isn't a great baseline to want to beat.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2016, 04:09:46 pm »
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Wait, Mage spell is worse than every single dmg spell at every mana cost in the entire game.

Forbidden Torch?  Or whatever it's called.  The fireball for 3.  It's better than that.

At the time yes, but Torch puts a 3 mana Fireball in your deck. Drain life is worse, but you get to heal 2. Ok yeah, it's better than drain life, which isn't a great baseline to want to beat.

As an aside, there are times as a Renolock where I choose to discover Drain Life with Scarab in situations where I feel every bit of health counts. Not something you'd ever want to put in your deck though. At least the Mage spell is effective against minions with equal or less health than their mana cost.
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popsofctown

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2016, 04:39:24 pm »
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I think that Mage spell is Arena playable. It's very versatile and can be used for early game removal or late game, which is why I think it's good in Arena. Strictly worse than every other Mage spell though at its mana cost though. Maybe you could do some tricks with it in an Antonidas/Flamewaker sort of deck though. Antonidas, 3 mana of spells + Forbidden Flame x 2 isn't terrible.

The Priest one seems really good though.

Oh, crap, yeah, this is the first 0 cost Mage spell, so it's offering previously forbidden ways of proccing Mana Wyrm, Flamewaker, Antonidas, and perhaps even Auctioneer.

Good catch.  The procs are probably far more relevant than the card's actual effect.  Mage has been largely prohibited from having good 0 cost spells due to the spell synergies they have available.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2016, 05:01:20 pm »
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I think that Mage spell is Arena playable. It's very versatile and can be used for early game removal or late game, which is why I think it's good in Arena. Strictly worse than every other Mage spell though at its mana cost though. Maybe you could do some tricks with it in an Antonidas/Flamewaker sort of deck though. Antonidas, 3 mana of spells + Forbidden Flame x 2 isn't terrible.

The Priest one seems really good though.

Oh, crap, yeah, this is the first 0 cost Mage spell, so it's offering previously forbidden ways of proccing Mana Wyrm, Flamewaker, Antonidas, and perhaps even Auctioneer.

Good catch.  The procs are probably far more relevant than the card's actual effect.  Mage has been largely prohibited from having good 0 cost spells due to the spell synergies they have available.

I see what you did there. Still, this new spell at 0 mana costs a card in order to do nothing but be a spell activator. It's not a "good" 0-mana spell.
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2016, 05:07:39 pm »
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It does do other stuff in pinches.  Sometimes you really really need a drawless mortal coil
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2016, 05:14:46 pm »
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It does do other stuff in pinches.  Sometimes you really really need a drawless mortal coil

Right, and I feel like you'd rather combo it off Flamewaker or Wyrm as a 1 or 2 mana spell than a 0 mana spell unless absolutely necessary.
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ycz6

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2016, 08:49:39 pm »
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Forbidden Flame seems too slow to be played in Tempo Mage. Anything above 2 mana just feels too clunky for a deck so focused on efficiency, and at 1 or 2 mana is probably too weak for a deck that usually has to choose between Arcane Blast and Mirror Image already. As a 0-mana spell synergy-activator... I dunno. Mana Wyrm, Flamewaker, and Antonidas are just 5 cards, and the effect doesn't seem strong enough for Mana Wyrm or Flamewaker activations alone.

If it sees competitive play, it'll probably be in some sort of control Mage, where the flexibility of being able to go 1-for-1 with almost any minion will outweigh the mana inefficiency, and you'll be more likely to be willing to hold it to combo with Antonidas. With all the Deathrattles from Naxx out of standard, this might be good enough, but it remains to see how many sticky minions we'll have in Old Gods.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2016, 10:23:35 pm »
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Can you even cast Forbidden Flame for 0-mana without Spell power? Like, can you cast Savagery when you have no attack?
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KingZog3

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2016, 10:42:02 pm »
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Can you even cast Forbidden Flame for 0-mana without Spell power? Like, can you cast Savagery when you have no attack?

Yes you can. Savagery works with spell dmg and no attack. So this should work the same way.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2016, 09:41:22 am »
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Can you even cast Forbidden Flame for 0-mana without Spell power? Like, can you cast Savagery when you have no attack?

Yes you can. Savagery works with spell dmg and no attack. So this should work the same way.

What about without spell damage and no attack?
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2016, 10:51:59 am »
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Can you even cast Forbidden Flame for 0-mana without Spell power? Like, can you cast Savagery when you have no attack?

Yes you can. Savagery works with spell dmg and no attack. So this should work the same way.

What about without spell damage and no attack?

You can cast Shield Slam with no armor, so I assume yes.
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2016, 11:27:28 am »
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The only spells I've seen you cannot cast indiscriminately are the ones that specify "a minion" or " n minions". There must be a minion or n minions on board, respectively.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2016, 11:39:15 am »
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Cool. Thanks guys.
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2016, 12:17:55 pm »
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The only spells I've seen you cannot cast indiscriminately are the ones that specify "a minion" or " n minions". There must be a minion or n minions on board, respectively.

Also weapon spells. Like deadly poison
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2016, 12:48:58 pm »
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The Paladin card with this mechanic is:

0-Forbidden Healing
Spend all your Mana, Heal for double the mana you spent.

I think the Rogue one moght buff his weapon, might be really strong though.
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Jorbles

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2016, 12:55:48 pm »
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Does anyone know if Battlecries trigger on the Priest one? If it does it's probably OP, if it doesn't it's probably still really good, but balanced by the fact that any battlecry minions you get are a disappointment.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2016, 01:18:41 pm »
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Does anyone know if Battlecries trigger on the Priest one? If it does it's probably OP, if it doesn't it's probably still really good, but balanced by the fact that any battlecry minions you get are a disappointment.
I think the UI issues alone will prevent Battlecries from being applied. How are you supposed to target a minion like you would for the battlecry of BGH? Not activating battlecries is in line with all other summon random Minion cards (piloted mechs, Ram Wrangler, Bane of Doom, etc.).

Plus, battlecries activate before a summon. That's why a Dr. Doom that triggers Sacred Trial through the Boom Bots dies instead of the bots.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 01:20:13 pm by markusin »
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2016, 02:53:35 pm »
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The Paladin card with this mechanic is:

0-Forbidden Healing
Spend all your Mana, Heal for double the mana you spent.

I think the Rogue one moght buff his weapon, might be really strong though.

That's a big heal, similar to Tree of Life if you play it at 10 mana, but single target and works on minions and always fits your curve. I'm not sure it'll be good, but I think it'll be tried and almost make the cut for decks that are more control.
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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2016, 03:07:48 pm »
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The Paladin card with this mechanic is:

0-Forbidden Healing
Spend all your Mana, Heal for double the mana you spent.

I think the Rogue one moght buff his weapon, might be really strong though.

That's a big heal, similar to Tree of Life if you play it at 10 mana, but single target and works on minions and always fits your curve. I'm not sure it'll be good, but I think it'll be tried and almost make the cut for decks that are more control.

Like F-Flame, it's underpowered compared to pretty much every healing spell at each mana cost.
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markusin

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2016, 03:13:23 pm »
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The Paladin card with this mechanic is:

0-Forbidden Healing
Spend all your Mana, Heal for double the mana you spent.

I think the Rogue one moght buff his weapon, might be really strong though.

That's a big heal, similar to Tree of Life if you play it at 10 mana, but single target and works on minions and always fits your curve. I'm not sure it'll be good, but I think it'll be tried and almost make the cut for decks that are more control.

Like F-Flame, it's underpowered compared to pretty much every healing spell at each mana cost.

It could be better than Tree of Life in a whole bunch of situations at 9-mana though.
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KingZog3

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Re: Wispers of the Old Gods
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2016, 04:36:02 pm »
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The Paladin card with this mechanic is:

0-Forbidden Healing
Spend all your Mana, Heal for double the mana you spent.

I think the Rogue one moght buff his weapon, might be really strong though.

That's a big heal, similar to Tree of Life if you play it at 10 mana, but single target and works on minions and always fits your curve. I'm not sure it'll be good, but I think it'll be tried and almost make the cut for decks that are more control.

Like F-Flame, it's underpowered compared to pretty much every healing spell at each mana cost.

It could be better than Tree of Life in a whole bunch of situations at 9-mana though.

Tree of life heals your opponent too, so the fact that at 9mana this heals you for 18, but not your opponent means you can still make plays to win by dmg while also healing yourself. Tree of Life is purely a fatigue card. So while worse in healing, it fits a totally different deck style. And like all the other forbidden cards, it fits any mana curve at any time, which is really useful on a heal spell. Sure Lay on Hands is strong, but sometimes you can't afford 8mana for a heal. I think this will be good, or at least borderline good.
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