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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Results!)  (Read 5095 times)

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spiralstaircase

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 06:20:04 am »
+2

Discussion is awfully quiet...

OK, some thoughts on ones that jump out at me.

Bonanza: For $30, end the game, and maybe not win. Nope.

Cobbler: Being able to buy silvers I can't use yet for $1 each would definitely change the early game - $10 in turn 3! - but it feels like the drawback completely cancels the effect.

Crop Rotation: Not sure I'd want to masq without the trashing.  Makes me sad that we didn't get convolucid's Crop Rotation, which I'd have given my 10.

Drinking song: I like the idea, but it wants to put the cards somewhere of its own, and it needs "Native" in its name somewhere.

Epic: I'll have 10 Epic Smithies, please.

Lodger: I'll have 10 Village Lodgers, please.

Recruit: I like the idea, but it needs "Contra" or "band" in its name somewhere.

Reserves: With two cantrip piles this could get ugly.  I think it needs something so that once you've moved your Attack token off a pile, it can't go back there.  It also needs to give the card it's on the type "Attack", because as-is, they're un-moat-able.

Sabotage: Can I put a card under this twice?

Siege: I like the idea, but it needs... oh, there it is.

Stronghold: For $12, maybe get 60VP and end the game.  Swingy.

Decree: I like the idea, but I like Royal Carriage better.
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2016, 07:28:06 pm »
+2

Quote
Bonanza
Types: Event
Cost: $30
Gain the remaining victory cards in the supply.
I kind of see the idea behind this, but I don't really like it. On most boards, if you can hit $30 you're probably going to win anyway (unless you've been doing so in the absence of +Buy and your opponent has just grabbed a Province every turn for the last 6 turns). And on Gardens and Fairgrounds boards, this is just silly and it will turn the whole thing into a race to hit $30.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)
I didn't particularly like the idea of introducing *another* token when this appeared in the first contest, and I still don't. But I don't have any particular objections to the card idea itself (although I think it would be interesting to make the gaining compulsory).

Quote
Campaign
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

Once per game, if you did not buy any victory cards this turn, take another turn after this one. You may not buy any victory cards for the rest of this turn.

Clarification: You may not buy any victory cards the turn you buy this event but any cards during the additional turn.
I guess that most of the time this is either "I got a rubbish hand this turn, going to try for a better hand next turn" or "Take two turns at the start of the game". I don't think I'm a massive fan of either possibility.

Quote
Cobbler
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Gain a silver to your hand. Each other player may gain a silver.
As others have pointed out, this is essentially "every player may gain a silver" since in most cases you won't be able to do anything with it (edge cases include Save, Farmlands). Not hugely exciting.

Quote
Coronation
Types: Event
Cost: $8
Once per game: Move your Crown token to an action supply pile costing up to $4. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, after you resolve it, play it again.)

Clarification: When you play it again, it's already in play, so the event's effect doesn't happen again. For the same reason, you only get one extra play if you use Throne Room, King's Court, Procession or Disciple to play the card; and none if you use Golem, Herald or Prince. (Procession and Disciple say to "Play an Action card from your hand twice", but for the purposes of this card that's "Play [an Action card from your hand] twice", not "[Play an Action card from your hand] twice", as the card does not return to your hand.)
Again, I don't like having even more tokens, and the rules clarification makes this a bit ugly. Also, this turns too many cards into cwazy powerhouses (for a simple example, compare Pathfinding-Smithy to Coronation-Smithy).

Quote
Crop Rotation
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Once per turn: +1 Card, then each player passes a card from his hand to the left at once, then put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
This could possibly even cost $1, since about 90% of it is like a nerfed Save. The passing is cute, and unlike Masquerade it can't really be used in any kind of pin. It maybe doesn't even need the "Once per turn".

Quote
Disaster
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per turn: Trash the top 3 cards of any non-Victory Supply pile.
Flip your Pest token face up (It starts face down).

Pest token: When you would gain a Victory card, gain nothing instead. When you buy a non-Victory Action card, flip this face down
And again. I, too, don't really think trashing from the Supply does a lot of anything except annoy people. I don't think the Pest token is a bad idea in itself.

Quote
Drinking Song
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat; or put any number of cards from your Tavern mat on top of your deck.
I like this one, although I think it would have to be modified a little to prevent it being abused too much. It's nice to have an Event that makes use of the Tavern mat.

Quote
Epic
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Move your Epic token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile, instead of resolving its normal effects, you may instead receive +1 Card and +2 Actions.
Argh, more tokens. Is it really that Epic to be able to play a given card as a Village? It's nice for engines I suppose, but a little boring.

Quote
Invent
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Flip your Journey Token over. If it's face up, +$3
It's ok, I guess? It weakens the impact of having the wrong amount of money at the end of a turn, which I think is actually a bit of a pity.

Quote
Lodger
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per game: Move your -1 VP token and your +2 cards token to an Action Supply Pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +2 cards). At the end of the game cards in your deck from the Action Supply Pile with the -1 VP token are worth 1 VP less than they would be otherwise.
*Two* more tokens? And I still reckon it's not as interesting a decision as it might seem. Double-Pathfinding on a card in exchange for it being counted as a Curse? Whack it on the key engine card and you'll be gaining enough Victory cards you can ignore the VP loss.

Quote
Reconstruction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
You lose your remaining actions (actions, not action cards).
Discard a card from your hand with a cost higher than $0. If you do, turn your Journey token up (it starts face up). If it's face up: +1 Action.
Return to your action phase.
Hmm. Yeah, not a huge fan of the "Return to your action phase" either, even if this version is somewhat nerfed. All you need is to have $2 spare and two cards worth discarding, which can easily just be starting Estates or whatever. I think a variant on "take another turn" would be slightly smoother, although at this point it can be a struggle working out whether such an effect actually lets you have another turn or not.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left names two cards. Gain a card costing up to $6 that he did not name.
I like this one. Maybe price it at $5 though?

Quote
Reserves
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Move your Attack token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile first each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes one that costs between $2 and $5 and discards the rest. If a card worth $4 or more is trashed, move your attack token to a different Action Supply pile.)
Another token, and even more complications. And a trashing attack that is different enough from Saboteur and Knights to cause confusion. Nope.

Quote
Sabotage
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to place it under the Sabotage event. When any player plays a card from this card's supply pile they discard a card.
Ouch. This makes it far too easy to hobble an opponent's strategy in uninteresting ways.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card you discarded.
Still fairly innocuous. As an Event, it's not terrible that it may sometimes be useless.

Quote
Siege
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Once per game: Put your Contraband token to an Action Supply pile which contains ten cards. When another plays a card from that pile, the player to its left names a card which can not be bought this turn.
Arglflargl. Also, arglflargl.

Quote
Stronghold
Types: Event
Cost: $12
Set aside an action supply card putting your Province token on it. All copies you own are worth 6 Victory Points. When all copies of that card run out, the game ends at the end of the active players turn.

Clarification: You own the copy of the card you set aside.
Arglflarglbargl. Stronghold a cheap card and piledrive them? Even moreso if the card is something like Hamlet that incentivises its own piledriving?

Quote
Tollhouse
Types: Event
Cost: $1*
+1 Buy
Move your Pass token to Tollhouse.

In games containing Tollhouse, whenever you shuffle your deck: If your Pass token is on Tollhouse, remove it; otherwise, gain a Curse and a Copper and move your Pass token to Tollhouse.


This costs $1 more per empty Supply pile.

Setup: Add an extra Event costing $0 or $1 to the available Event cards.
Hneflbafl. Also, seriously having to pay a toll to avoid junking your deck every time you shuffle? Also, why do you also need another Event?

Quote
Decree
Types: Event
Cost: $3
+1 Buy.
Move your Decree token to an Action Supply pile. Directly after resolving a copy of that Action, you may remove your Decree token from its Supply pile and play it again.
[/quote]
Whrrrgbl. Although I think it's a neater implementation than Coronation. Actually, despite adding another token, I quite like this one.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2016, 04:15:07 pm »
0

I wrote up comments Monday but didn't post them (I was on a plane).

Quote
Bonanza
Types: Event
Cost: $30
Gain the remaining victory cards in the supply.

I don't think it's necessarily the worst idea ever, though I think similar ideas have been suggested and it could be implemented better.  One thing I don't like about this implementation is I think it's too cheap, and also it's way too automatic in Colony games, to the point it just shuts down most interesting Colony games.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Same opinion as last time, this is a nice card that I'll probably vote for.

Quote
Campaign
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

Once per game, if you did not buy any victory cards this turn, take another turn after this one. You may not buy any victory cards for the rest of this turn.

Clarification: You may not buy any victory cards the turn you buy this event but any cards during the additional turn.

This might work, though I feel like the territory is already covered by Mission.  Actually, I might have liked this better than Mission, but we already have Mission.  I'm not sure, I don't like the once per game restriction so much.  Don't you pretty much always want to do it as early as possible (like turn 1)?

Quote
Cobbler
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Gain a silver to your hand. Each other player may gain a silver.

Could be okay.

Quote
Coronation
Types: Event
Cost: $8
Once per game: Move your Crown token to an action supply pile costing up to $4. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, after you resolve it, play it again.)

Clarification: When you play it again, it's already in play, so the event's effect doesn't happen again. For the same reason, you only get one extra play if you use Throne Room, King's Court, Procession or Disciple to play the card; and none if you use Golem, Herald or Prince. (Procession and Disciple say to "Play an Action card from your hand twice", but for the purposes of this card that's "Play [an Action card from your hand] twice", not "[Play an Action card from your hand] twice", as the card does not return to your hand.)

I think I posted this or something similar in the RBCI thread when Adventures came out.  It sounds really fun on the surface...but $8 is just not nearly enough.  Like, Pathfinding is $8 and just gives you +1 card, and every card is better than +1 card (well, it's sort of different for playing a card twice, but still).  For example, Throne Room just becomes a super King's Court, for cheaper.  Even a cantrip becomes a Lost City.  Throne Room works as a card because it takes up a card and an action, which makes playing the card twice less efficient.  An auto-throne on play is just insanity.

That being said, I actually thought about submitting an event like this for the contest, that trashed the card after playing it twice.  I can't decide whether that would be something you actually want.  But as it is, I think Coronation needs to cost like an absurd amount, which I'm not sure makes the game fun anymore.

Quote
Crop Rotation
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Once per turn: +1 Card, then each player passes a card from his hand to the left at once, then put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

I like the idea of a Masquerade event, and I think this is a good implementation.  $2 might be too expensive.

Quote
Disaster
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per turn: Trash the top 3 cards of any non-Victory Supply pile.
Flip your Pest token face up (It starts face down).

Pest token: When you would gain a Victory card, gain nothing instead. When you buy a non-Victory Action card, flip this face down

Sorry, I don't like it.  I'm not a fan of explicit pile control cards in general.  I assume the Pest token only does that thing when it's face-up?  I don't really see how the two effects are related anyway...I guess the idea is that you have to buy something else so you don't get to run piles and buy victory cards all at once.  But you can still do that in one turn, you just have to buy an action first.  Also, $4 is like insanely expensive for this effect.  I think you only do it if it wins you the game.

Quote
Drinking Song
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat; or put any number of cards from your Tavern mat on top of your deck.

Hmm itís sort of like a Native Village event.  You can be more intentional about the pseudo-trashing than Native Village.  The cards go on top of your deck instead of into your hand, but you can choose any number of them.  My gut says it should cost $1, but then it looks a lot better than Bonfire.  Either way, I think I like it.

Quote
Epic
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Move your Epic token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile, instead of resolving its normal effects, you may instead receive +1 Card and +2 Actions.

Probably fine balance-wise, doesnít seem exciting to me.

Quote
Invent
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Flip your Journey Token over. If it's face up, +$3

Thatís actually a pretty cool and very simple idea.  I think you buy it every turn, except when you really have the exact amount you want already.  Itís kind of like Borrow, or coin tokens, or something, but also different enough to be interesting.

Quote
Lodger
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per game: Move your -1 VP token and your +2 cards token to an Action Supply Pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +2 cards). At the end of the game cards in your deck from the Action Supply Pile with the -1 VP token are worth 1 VP less than they would be otherwise.

I donít think this is worth it for the extra complexity.  Itís like an ultra Pathfinding with extra drawback.  It just seems like it will be too crazy for something thatís not really new.

Quote
Reconstruction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
You lose your remaining actions (actions, not action cards).
Discard a card from your hand with a cost higher than $0. If you do, turn your Journey token up (it starts face up). If it's face up: +1 Action.
Return to your action phase.

Thatís so many conditions itís hard to keep track of.  I donít think it needs to suck up all your actions; most of the time I would think youíre in the buy phase because either you ran out of actions (in which case sucking up actions doesnít do anything), or because you have no action cards in hand, in which case you wonít be buying it anyway.  So it could use some cleaning up (I donít think thereís even that much room for text on an event), but I think this is the best implementation of this kind of idea weíve seen yet.  I also think itís too cheap, even with all the other penalties.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left names two cards. Gain a card costing up to $6 that he did not name.

I like the idea of this one.  I think maybe the cost of the event and the cost of the gained card and the number of cards named should maybe be changed.  Thereís also an issue that it might slow down play.  On the other hand, it just means the player to your left makes some of your decisions for you, and you can think simultaneously.  It might be automatic, though I guess they can name cards costing $4 or less if they think those are better so itís not strictly better than buying other $4ís.

Quote
Reserves
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Move your Attack token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile first each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes one that costs between $2 and $5 and discards the rest. If a card worth $4 or more is trashed, move your attack token to a different Action Supply pile.)

I donít understand the $2 to $5 range; $3 to $6 is much more natural and consistent with official cards, and makes a lot more sense, is less swingy, and makes it more of an attack.  The forcing you to move your token when you hit a more expensive card is clever.  I donít think I like the idea enough to be worth how much text it takes.

Quote
Sabotage
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to place it under the Sabotage event. When any player plays a card from this card's supply pile they discard a card.

Huh, itís like a weird Embargo variant I guess.  Seems okay.  If thereís multiple copies, do you discard twice?  I guess nothing in there indicates that you wouldnít.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card you discarded.

Same as last time, I donít think I like it enough to vote for it.

Quote
Siege
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Once per game: Put your Contraband token to an Action Supply pile which contains ten cards. When another plays a card from that pile, the player to its left names a card which can not be bought this turn.

Cool ideaÖI think thereís too many issues with it to make it work though.  Retroactively applying it would have been one concern, but it looks like the designer was aware of that and thatís why itís restricted to full supply piles.  Well not quite because of Port and Rats and victory cards.  Rats would get hilariously awful if you sieged them.  If you want to see if you can place it on a particular pile, youíd have to count how many cards are in it, so thatís annoying.  And then I feel like it just becomes an Embargo more than anythingÖyou have to really want a card to be willing to play it even with the contraband effect.  But I do like that it discourages buying lots of powerful cards, like Cultist.  Either it makes the optimal play to skip Cultist, or else the optimal play requires lots of other cards getting banned, which makes things interesting.  The other issue is you donít want to open with it.  Itís only good once you and/or your opponent have committed to a particular strategy.  But by then, theyíve likely bought at least one copy of the card you want to ban.

Quote
Stronghold
Types: Event
Cost: $12
Set aside an action supply card putting your Province token on it. All copies you own are worth 6 Victory Points. When all copies of that card run out, the game ends at the end of the active players turn.

Clarification: You own the copy of the card you set aside.

Uh...this is insane.  If it were like 1 or 2 VP it would be cool.  But 6 VP is like, you donít care about Provinces any more.  Especially because you can pile out whatever card you put the token on to end the game.  Sorry, this is just way too game-warping, like in a way that makes games a lot less fun I think.  I also think itís not nearly expensive enough.  Youíll still go for it in basically every game.

Quote
Tollhouse
Types: Event
Cost: $1*
+1 Buy
Move your Pass token to Tollhouse.

In games containing Tollhouse, whenever you shuffle your deck: If your Pass token is on Tollhouse, remove it; otherwise, gain a Curse and a Copper and move your Pass token to Tollhouse.


This costs $1 more per empty Supply pile.

Setup: Add an extra Event costing $0 or $1 to the available Event cards.

This is a pretty cool idea.  I donít like the set-up clause because I donít really understand why itís there, and itís already a pretty crowded event; it canít really afford an extra line of text.  I do like that it costs $1 more per empty supply pile, that makes things get increasingly more interesting as the game goes.  My main concern is that players will forget about it when shuffling.

Quote
Decree
Types: Event
Cost: $3
+1 Buy.
Move your Decree token to an Action Supply pile. Directly after resolving a copy of that Action, you may remove your Decree token from its Supply pile and play it again.

This works better than Coronation.  I think it should say ďWhile your Decree token is on an that pileÖĒ because if followed literally as written, the Decree token doesnít actually do anything, and when you remove it, it doesnít unthrone that pile for you.  But of course we all know what it means.  I think it costs too much but itís hard to say.  Itís very roughly on par with giving you a one-shot cantrip version of a card you want.  Maybe thatís reasonable for $3 and no buy.
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2016, 10:14:25 pm »
0

Thoughts on various cards

Quote
Campaign
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

Once per game, if you did not buy any victory cards this turn, take another turn after this one. You may not buy any victory cards for the rest of this turn.

Clarification: You may not buy any victory cards the turn you buy this event but any cards during the additional turn.
It seems like you would always buy this on your first turn.  I suppose you could use it later to catch your opponent with a surprise rush?

Quote
Cobbler
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Gain a silver to your hand. Each other player may gain a silver.
This is too good in the rare case when you want a silver flood but your opponents don't, and otherwise useless.  I call that imbalanced.

Quote
Coronation
Types: Event
Cost: $8
Once per game: Move your Crown token to an action supply pile costing up to $4. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, after you resolve it, play it again.)

Clarification: When you play it again, it's already in play, so the event's effect doesn't happen again. For the same reason, you only get one extra play if you use Throne Room, King's Court, Procession or Disciple to play the card; and none if you use Golem, Herald or Prince. (Procession and Disciple say to "Play an Action card from your hand twice", but for the purposes of this card that's "Play [an Action card from your hand] twice", not "[Play an Action card from your hand] twice", as the card does not return to your hand.)
I don't know why we want this throne room token to work so badly, it's never going to work in my opinion.

Quote
Disaster
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per turn: Trash the top 3 cards of any non-Victory Supply pile.
Flip your Pest token face up (It starts face down).

Pest token: When you would gain a Victory card, gain nothing instead. When you buy a non-Victory Action card, flip this face down
I like the idea of boosting rush strategies by trashing from the supply, and the pest token balances it a bit by making it hard to buy victory cards on the same turn you rush to the end.  But it's kind of complicated for the thing it's trying to do, and uninteresting when there's no rush strategy.  I strongly feel that supply pile trashing is better as an on-gain effect for a kingdom card.

Quote
Drinking Song
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat; or put any number of cards from your Tavern mat on top of your deck.
Compare to Trade.  You can pay $4 to island two cards from your hand, but you don't gain the silver.  I guess that's fine.  I might open with two drinking songs though.

Quote
Invent
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Flip your Journey Token over. If it's face up, +$3
You probably want to buy this almost every turn.  I don't think that makes it exciting, it makes it boring. 

This is crazy with other journey token cards.  For example, with pilgrimage you can pay $5 to instantly gain those copies.

Quote
Reconstruction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
You lose your remaining actions (actions, not action cards).
Discard a card from your hand with a cost higher than $0. If you do, turn your Journey token up (it starts face up). If it's face up: +1 Action.
Return to your action phase.
As I mentioned with the last event competition, I designed an event that gives you a new action phase, but it was cheaper and simpler than this.  I think this event is overrating the value of having an extra action on demand.  Although, I suppose you could just discard estates?

Like invent, this has the problem that it doesn't interact well with other journey token cards.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left names two cards. Gain a card costing up to $6 that he did not name.
Alms is pretty crazy because you can gain a $4 whenever.  This strikes me as crazier than alms.  Basically, all $5 cards are discounted except for possibly the key card.  But you can still pick up the key $5 pretty easily because it no longer competes with the other $5s.

Quote
Sabotage
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to place it under the Sabotage event. When any player plays a card from this card's supply pile they discard a card.
I don't like a card that so easily shuts down engines.

Quote
Siege
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Once per game: Put your Contraband token to an Action Supply pile which contains ten cards. When another plays a card from that pile, the player to its left names a card which can not be bought this turn.
Why does this only affect opponents?  What if I buy siege on a card, then buy a copy of the card, preventing my opponent from doing the same to me?

Quote
Decree
Types: Event
Cost: $3
+1 Buy.
Move your Decree token to an Action Supply pile. Directly after resolving a copy of that Action, you may remove your Decree token from its Supply pile and play it again.
Sounds good, actually.
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mustang255

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2016, 11:38:40 pm »
0

Overall: why does almost every single event card here have +buy and extra tokens? Is that just what people want out of events?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 12:02:42 am »
+2

Overall: why does almost every single event card here have +buy and extra tokens? Is that just what people want out of events?

+buy is because a lot of events don't make sense without it.  On a lot of boards, you have no +buy, which means if your event also has no +buy, it has to be worth spending your entire turn on.  A lot of the cheaper events have effects that are inherently weaker than even the cheapest cards' effects (because they're one-shot), so they can't be worth spending your whole turn for, so they need +buy to make them worthwhile more often.

Tokens, I'm not so sure about.  I guess it's just a lot easier to come up with new ideas that make use of tokens, since they give you a lot of extra space to track things you couldn't otherwise and do new things with old cards.  New tokens are an automatic minus for me though, but not a huge one.
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2016, 12:45:00 am »
+3

Overall: why does almost every single event card here have +buy and extra tokens? Is that just what people want out of events?

+buy is because a lot of events don't make sense without it.  On a lot of boards, you have no +buy, which means if your event also has no +buy, it has to be worth spending your entire turn on.  A lot of the cheaper events have effects that are inherently weaker than even the cheapest cards' effects (because they're one-shot), so they can't be worth spending your whole turn for, so they need +buy to make them worthwhile more often.

Tokens, I'm not so sure about.  I guess it's just a lot easier to come up with new ideas that make use of tokens, since they give you a lot of extra space to track things you couldn't otherwise and do new things with old cards.  New tokens are an automatic minus for me though, but not a huge one.
I think it's two things. One the one hand, it's the fact that Adventures already has such a plethora of tokens that you put on supply piles or other things and do stuff with. And on the other hand, it's what you say, that tokens let you keep track of stuff. So if you want a card that fits into Adventures and does X, the easy choice is to introduce a token that does X and make your Event put the token somewhere. I don't like it, mainly because I think there are still interesting things to do with the tokens already in Adventures, and with the concept of Events in general, but also because it seems a little like a cop-out to just add another token.

As for having +Buy, if you have an Event that does something "neat", but not super-powerful, then on a board where players only have one Buy per turn they will probably skip your Event in favour of buying a card that actually helps their deck. So by adding the +Buy, you're essentially just giving them something to spend that little bit of excess money on in addition to getting a useful card. Taking an example like Campaign (just because it's near the top of the list), if it didn't have the +Buy then you would almost exclusively use it on turns where you didn't get enough money to buy a card you wanted, whereas I feel like the person who wrote it instead wanted it to be like a mini-Tactician thing, letting the player give themselves a tiny boost at just the right point in the game.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2016, 04:50:22 am »
0

Thoughts on various cards

Quote
Campaign
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

Once per game, if you did not buy any victory cards this turn, take another turn after this one. You may not buy any victory cards for the rest of this turn.

Clarification: You may not buy any victory cards the turn you buy this event but any cards during the additional turn.
It seems like you would always buy this on your first turn.  I suppose you could use it later to catch your opponent with a surprise rush?

I am not sure whether you want your extra turn that early. You get one turn ahead if you do and your opponent does not, plus you cycle faster. However, if you buy it when your engine is up and running, the turn will be much better, you might get ahead two or three "first shuffle turns".

Quote
Coronation
Types: Event
Cost: $8
Once per game: Move your Crown token to an action supply pile costing up to $4. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, after you resolve it, play it again.)

Clarification: When you play it again, it's already in play, so the event's effect doesn't happen again. For the same reason, you only get one extra play if you use Throne Room, King's Court, Procession or Disciple to play the card; and none if you use Golem, Herald or Prince. (Procession and Disciple say to "Play an Action card from your hand twice", but for the purposes of this card that's "Play [an Action card from your hand] twice", not "[Play an Action card from your hand] twice", as the card does not return to your hand.)

I agree this card is super strong and can't be correctly priced as is, but I still like the concept.
Maybe you could weaken the card by moving the token to a cheaper action card or removing it after you played the action due to Coronation.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 04:51:54 am by Mr Anderson »
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2016, 12:32:44 pm »
+2

Thoughts on various cards

Quote
Campaign
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy

Once per game, if you did not buy any victory cards this turn, take another turn after this one. You may not buy any victory cards for the rest of this turn.

Clarification: You may not buy any victory cards the turn you buy this event but any cards during the additional turn.
It seems like you would always buy this on your first turn.  I suppose you could use it later to catch your opponent with a surprise rush?

I am not sure whether you want your extra turn that early. You get one turn ahead if you do and your opponent does not, plus you cycle faster. However, if you buy it when your engine is up and running, the turn will be much better, you might get ahead two or three "first shuffle turns".

But the thing is, it's the same either way.  Suppose you are going for that engine.  Let's say it takes 10 turns to really get running, at which point you can draw your deck.

Scenario A: you take your double turn early.  Engine is full speed on turn 9 and you draw your deck.  You draw your deck on turn 10 as well.

Scenario B: you wait on that double turn.  Engine is full speed on turn 10.  You take your double turn now, drawing your deck each time.

From turns 2-9, scenario is simply ahead of scenario B by one turn.  B catches up on turn 10.  From turn 11, they are identical.

So I think you pretty much always want the extra turn immediately, in case that one turn is the difference.  The only reason to save it would be the surprise factor to suddenly end the game with two turns of buying power, but that depends on the opponent tracking the game state well enough to make judgements on it yet failing to account for your double turn.

What the event needs is something that makes it more powerful if you save it for later.  Making it cost $2 might be enough, since that amount hurts more of you use it early.  Or maybe it could give you 7 cards for your bonus turn, which is valuable in different ways at different points in the game.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2016, 11:45:35 am »
0

Results:

Border Crossing - 12
Recruit - 11
Decree - 9
Invent - 9
Drinking Song - 8

Crop Rotation - 7
Epic - 5
Salvage Yard - 5
Coronation - 4
Disaster - 4
Tollhouse - 4
Campaign - 2
Sabotage - 2
Cobbler - 1
Reconstruction - 1
Reserves - 1
Siege - 1
Stronghold - 1
Bonanza - 0
Lodger - 0
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2016, 11:47:55 am »
0

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Quote
Decree
Types: Event
Cost: $3
+1 Buy.
Move your Decree token to an Action Supply pile. Directly after resolving a copy of that Action, you may remove your Decree token from its Supply pile and play it again.

Quote
Drinking Song
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat; or put any number of cards from your Tavern mat on top of your deck.

Quote
Invent
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Flip your Journey Token over. If it's face up, +$3

Quote
Recruit
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left names two cards. Gain a card costing up to $6 that he did not name.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2016, 01:04:44 pm »
0

So I'm underwhelmed by Decree, Recruit and Drinking Somg.

Decree is a one shot Throne Room for $3. It seems pretty weak. Why not just buy a $3 action and play it multiple times?

Drinking Song, in my opinion, is more comparable to Island than Save. The difference? It's cheaper and infinite, so you always build a deck that doesn't slow down when you green. Isn't finding ways to get past green cards one of the major parts of Dominion?

And Recruit seems like Feast+. There's always Gold, and there are usually a few juicy non-terminal Actions that are a great putchase for $4. Recruit just seems underwhelming; I'm okay with having Contraband's ability unique.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2016, 02:10:36 pm »
0

Drinking Song, in my opinion, is more comparable to Island than Save. The difference? It's cheaper and infinite, so you always build a deck that doesn't slow down when you green. Isn't finding ways to get past green cards one of the major parts of Dominion?

My favourites are Drinking Song and Invent.  For me, Dominion is interesting because the different cards (and events!) introduce new things that make each game a different experience, so the possibility you describe is a feature, not a bug.  It still costs coins for every use so if you want to use the event as an Island, you need to do it with $2 less each turn you buy it.  That's not trivial!  I'm more interested in how it compares to Native Village.

The only finalist I really don't like is Decree.  I don't think it's worth the extra token to have something that's basically a worse Royal Carriage in the same set as Royal Carriage.

I have concerns about Recruit slowing down the game for either no effect or a huge effect depending on the board, but I do like the Contraband effect and would love this if it works out.

Invent is just really nice and simple.

I don't mind Border Crossing but I've cooled on it;  I am swayed by the recent comments regarding adding new tokens.
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2016, 06:55:00 pm »
0

Aww, missed it by that much. (My card was Crop Rotation.)

I will think carefully about the finalists, and try to judge them absent my hang-up about having new tokens. That said, several of the finalists need to be adjusted either for balance or to more closely match what I assume is the intention of their creator.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2016, 07:05:43 pm »
0

Mith, when are the finalist votes due?
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2016, 04:19:28 pm »
0

Monday-ish. Though I'll probably be a day or two behind on updating, so...
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2016, 08:02:55 am »
+1

Is there something I'm not getting about Invent? It seems bad. To me there are two cases:

A) There are other Journey token card on the board.
In this case, it's just ridiculously powerful, yes? Like game-breakingly so. For example, it turns Giant into +$4 plus the attack, which is crazy. Or Pilgrimage into $5, gain 3 different cards you have in play. Also crazy. This does not seem like a thing you want to do.

Then, there is

B) No other Journey token cards.
In this case.. it simply turns the Journey token into a glorified coin token? Like it would not be that different if it simply gained a coin token once per turn. Which is... okay-ish, but not all that interesting?

So either the author was going for A, which I think is really bad, or for B, in which case I think this should be solved via coin tokens rather than using the Journey token to avoid A.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2016, 01:43:25 pm »
0

Is there something I'm not getting about Invent? It seems bad. To me there are two cases:

A) There are other Journey token card on the board.
In this case, it's just ridiculously powerful, yes? Like game-breakingly so. For example, it turns Giant into +$4 plus the attack, which is crazy. Or Pilgrimage into $5, gain 3 different cards you have in play. Also crazy. This does not seem like a thing you want to do.

Then, there is

B) No other Journey token cards.
In this case.. it simply turns the Journey token into a glorified coin token? Like it would not be that different if it simply gained a coin token once per turn. Which is... okay-ish, but not all that interesting?

So either the author was going for A, which I think is really bad, or for B, in which case I think this should be solved via coin tokens rather than using the Journey token to avoid A.

On B:

The trick with this card is that it'll be a net positive even if you buy it every turn, but sometimes it'll be better for you not to give up the $1 when you could buy something better, and sometimes it'll be better to wait on getting the net +$2 until you really need it.  Deciding when to wait is an interesting decision that will come up multiple times in a game.  I highly approve.

The tempo is very different than it would be with coin tokens because you can't continue stockpiling them.

On A, I guess it needs testing but I think having that craziness once in a while would be fun.  I mean,  there are some other wild combos around.  MS-Hermit, CH-Travelling Fair, Proc-Fortress... I like that combos like this exist, as long as they aren't in every game.  It would be different if the combo made the game miserable, like a super easy pin, but I think the journey token ones would be OK.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2016, 06:11:39 pm »
+1

Results:

Recruit (scott_pilgrim) - 79
Invent (Roadrunner7671) - 69
Border Crossing (spiralstaircase) - 51
Decree (Fragasnap) - 41
Drinking Song (eHalcyon) - 28

Congrats, scott_pilgrim! (2 for 2 with "player to your left" $4 Events!) Sorry for the delay in updating, but there wasn't as much urgency since we're on a break... We'll be back sometime in May!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 06:13:26 pm by mith »
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Results!)
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2016, 07:49:22 pm »
+3

I tried, Roadrunner!  I gave you a 10.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Results!)
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2016, 11:20:53 pm »
0

The result is probably the order I would have ranked them in.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Results!)
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2016, 11:22:32 pm »
0

I tried, Roadrunner!  I gave you a 10.
Thanks man.

So congratulations to Scott! I like my Event, but I'm not sure if it's a good fit for Adventures. Regardless, it's still nice that people liked it!
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2016, 01:52:28 am »
0

Then, there is

B) No other Journey token cards.
In this case.. it simply turns the Journey token into a glorified coin token? Like it would not be that different if it simply gained a coin token once per turn. Which is... okay-ish, but not all that interesting?

So either the author was going for A, which I think is really bad, or for B, in which case I think this should be solved via coin tokens rather than using the Journey token to avoid A.
Perfect analysis. I'd like to add the obvious, that a "non-terminal" Coin token gaining event for 1$ is extremely overpowered. You can always transfer one unused Coin without any cost!
Asper once had such an Event that cost 2$ and it was too strong (albeit without the once per turn restriction, I think that once per turn such an Event is fine).
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 6: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2016, 07:19:36 am »
0

Results:

Recruit (scott_pilgrim) - 79
Invent (Roadrunner7671) - 69
Border Crossing (spiralstaircase) - 51
Decree (Fragasnap) - 41
Drinking Song (eHalcyon) - 28

Congrats, scott_pilgrim! (2 for 2 with "player to your left" $4 Events!) Sorry for the delay in updating, but there wasn't as much urgency since we're on a break... We'll be back sometime in May!

Is that next May?
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