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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid  (Read 19396 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« on: March 12, 2016, 08:58:54 am »
+2


"Qualifications?"
"Stampeding cattle."
"That's not much of a crime."
"Through the Vatican?"
"...kinky. Sign here."

-How good is Raid as an "attack"?
-How good is it as a Silver gainer?
-What cards like Raid, and what cards does Raid like?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 09:38:11 am »
0

Such an agressive Masterpiece!

iguanaiguana

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2016, 09:53:25 am »
+1

It says 'silver,' so it's boring. No one will have much to say about this one.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2016, 09:57:45 am »
0

Feodum likes it!

Besides that; I don't really get it. When you have 5: aren't there better things to buy (usually)? And if you have 6, you are probably better of with a silver. And paying 5 to have your opponents to draw one less card seems excessive.

So I am not sure what the reasoning is behind this card.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2016, 11:17:09 am »
0

Usually it won't be worth it to buy this in engines just to attack your opponent. -1 card does not justify $5 and a buy. Compare Pillage, which has the same cost (plus an action), and is a much stronger attack.

In fact this is much like Pillage. A one-shot that gains Treasures and does a hand-size attack.

This might be good for TfB if you didn't have to put those Silvers in play. I'd like to gain Silvers just to feed them to Apprentice, but I don't want to be forced to keep them.

The other card that this is much like is of course Masterpiece, and like Masterpiece, it will have a place in BM strategies. $5 for two Silvers can be good there (if you have 2 Silvers in play). 3 Silvers are usually better than Gold in BM. I'm not convinced I woud take 4 Silvers over a Province. I think it will overall be weaker than Masterpiece for that because Masterpiece scales more than twice as well.
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jomini

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2016, 11:34:22 am »
+1

-1 Card is pretty nice as attacks go. If they are not drawing, it is a Minion a turn delayed. This is really handy on a money board as it drastically reduces the odds of double Gold or Gold/ Silver x; many copper based $8s just die. Likewise money boards have few competitive cards after you have a few terminal $5, so you may as well buy Raid instead of yet another Silver; the -1 card making it superior to Duchy for a decent while whenever you gain one or two Silvers off it.


If they are drawing, it can appreciably lower the odds of kicking off an engine, particularly ones like Village/Oracle where the village draw is needed to have good odds of hitting an Oracle. It is about the only "discard" that actually makes a dent in Minion setups (much harder to chain if you need .33 Minions/non-draw card than .25). With zero Silver gain, it still be worth it (e.g. as a last ditch, stop their Minion engine for a turn so I can double province again next turn)

This attack also means that it allows you to go money against a number of marginal engines that Masterpiece might struggle against. But even in engines Raid can be good. If you have the draw it is one of the faster scaling means of building value. Each turn you can literally double your buying power so $6 -> $12 is a single buy, better than Plat for cost efficiency. Now for some setups, draw is no object (e.g. Chouse/Cellar engines with top deck control, some Madman decks) so you can do some crazy things - like Raid/Mission/Raid and then having $40 to play. But a number of engines can manage a lot of draw with a Silver flood.

One I like is Storyteller. If you can consistently play 3 Silvers with Storyteller, then she gives you +7 cards at the cost of 4. This is Hgrounds/Village or 3 Labs territory. Normally, it takes a lot to add another high silver Steller to your deck ($14 if you want to buy everything) ... but Raid is great here, you pay $10 to setup a second Steller (and gain the attack) or $15 for two. Even your whiffed turns are province buys (Steller being, at worst, cantrip). Raid/Steller is one of the few times where massing the latter can actually be viable (all you really need are +buy and trashing).


Outside of gaining large numbers of Silvers for coin, just using Raid as value gain or card count gain can work. Getting two or three Silvers each turn to feed your Upgrades is decently buy/cost efficient. Feeding two Silvers each turn to a Merc is also not a bad go for netting $1 and leaving them with 3 cards -1 draw. Very few things in Dominion have the ability to gain the number of cards that Raid can and very few things can gain close to the total value (e.g. gain 3S, Forge to Plat each turn).
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JThorne

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 02:30:39 pm »
+2

Heads up, newer players: This event is better than it looks. It's like Ironmonger. At first, you look at it and say "meh." Then you buy it a few times and suddenly you're winning out of nowhere.

Sure, I've played the insane Raid/Feodum rush against players who didn't believe in it and absolutely crushed Province players. But what really surprised me was the time Smithy-BM beat out a mediocre engine in a Colony game. Yes, Colonies! With just a couple of draw-3s and no treasure better than Silver. I couldn't believe it, either. But the engine player didn't want to buy Raid constantly and clog their deck with silver, so I never had to play 4-card hands. And I doubled a LOT of silver.

A couple of things about playing Raid/TD/BM: You might eventually need three or even four terminal draw cards. Raid decks can get enormous. But that also makes them resistant to greening. I don't know what the optimal tipping point is to go from gaining gobs of silver to greening; I'm sure it depends on the kingdom. And sometimes it won't be a good ideal to play this at all, but it's definitely a thing.

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transportowiec96

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 04:27:54 am »
0

-card token doesn't hurt that much. Unless you're going to buy Raid every turn, in which it's just an "urchin" that gain you silvers.
As silver gainer, it works quite nice, at beginning it usually gains a silver or two but when you have more silvers, it's just terryfying for your opponents to see how many silvers you have.
Feodum is great with this, although as already pointed out, masterpiece is better later in the game.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 04:50:11 am »
+1

Who wants to be my off-tank?
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2016, 06:19:01 am »
+1

I honestly think this is good in BM or feodum games, and well today aren't terribly common.

This and quest are the least interesting events. But, hey, at least at get another feodum enabler.
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2016, 09:19:52 am »
+5

The quality of a money deck is underrated these days. Money decks, like engine decks, are a lot better when you can buy more than one "component" per turn, and Raid lets you buy lots of components while also hitting opponents with a solid attack. While it's not the best event ever, its presence tips weak to moderate engine boards in favor of a strategy closer to terminal draw BM. Obviously you're not buying Raid on a board that hands you all the engine components you need, but I suspect Raid will be under-bought for awhile online while people learn about the usefulness of a deck filled with Silver and a frequent attack.
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Davio

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2016, 10:52:40 am »
+2

This event attacks everyone, even the one who buys it.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2016, 02:28:42 pm »
+6

-card token doesn't hurt that much. Unless you're going to buy Raid every turn, in which it's just an "urchin" that gain you silvers.
No. Urchin makes you discard your worst card, the card token makes you miss a random card.
I think the difference between the worst and a random card is huge.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2016, 03:40:48 pm »
0

-card token doesn't hurt that much. Unless you're going to buy Raid every turn, in which it's just an "urchin" that gain you silvers.
No. Urchin makes you discard your worst card, the card token makes you miss a random card.
I think the difference between the worst and a random card is huge.

Absolutely. Taking the -1 card token is basically the same as getting Minion'd but generally worse because you don't get the free cycling.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2016, 03:58:47 pm »
+2

-card token doesn't hurt that much. Unless you're going to buy Raid every turn, in which it's just an "urchin" that gain you silvers.
No. Urchin makes you discard your worst card, the card token makes you miss a random card.
I think the difference between the worst and a random card is huge.

Absolutely. Taking the -1 card token is basically the same as getting Minion'd but generally worse because you don't get the free cycling.

It's worse on average but also less swingy. Minion can make you miss your best card repeatedly or it can save you from junk hands repeatedly.

ehunt

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2016, 06:12:38 am »
+4

1) repeated raiding gives you a silver-flood deck, much like masterpiece or psychotrader

2) such decks are normally pretty good, rarely able to beat good engines but usually beating mediocre engines or more standard money/draw strategies.

3) however, such decks are extremely susceptible to handsize attacks

4) every board with raid contains a handsize attack; namely, raid.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2016, 03:13:47 pm »
0

1) repeated raiding gives you a silver-flood deck, much like masterpiece or psychotrader

2) such decks are normally pretty good, rarely able to beat good engines but usually beating mediocre engines or more standard money/draw strategies.

3) however, such decks are extremely susceptible to handsize attacks

4) every board with raid contains a handsize attack; namely, raid.

This is true, but your engine-building opponent is basically never going to buy Raid. And in a Raid mirror, nobody buys Raid after the Silver pile runs out.
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Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2016, 08:49:10 pm »
0

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2016, 08:51:15 pm »
+5

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.

Well then I guess you're an expert. :P
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2016, 09:04:54 pm »
+1

Every time I bought it, I ended up regretting it.
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2016, 09:08:17 pm »
0

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.

This is such shitty logic. You can't actually know how an Event works without ever having played with it, even in a throwaway game against bots.

That said Raid isn't that great.
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Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2016, 09:35:27 pm »
0

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.

This is such shitty logic. You can't actually know how an Event works without ever having played with it, even in a throwaway game against bots.

That said Raid isn't that great.

It's perfectly fine logic, because I know what the card does. There isn't much of a deeper meta behind this event, like with say, Rebuild. You even agree with me on how good it really is. Silver flooding is generally bad and the attack is not worth paying $5 for every time.

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.

Well then I guess you're an expert. :P

Is there a worse Event so far? I'm open to be persuaded otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 09:38:10 pm by Seprix »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2016, 09:54:16 pm »
0

Scouting Party is worse.
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Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2016, 10:07:43 pm »
+1

Scouting Party is worse.

It's not worse. I've played with it. It's good in the right circumstances.

Aren't you the Scout fanatic anyways?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Events: Raid
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2016, 10:17:12 pm »
+2

This is probably the worst Event. It's the only Event I've never bought so far.

This is such shitty logic. You can't actually know how an Event works without ever having played with it, even in a throwaway game against bots.

That said Raid isn't that great.

It's perfectly fine logic because he said it is "probably" the worst Event ie he's guessing it's the worst event, something you can definitely do without playing with it.
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