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[Melisandre]

Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.

From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". 

"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":

As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):

Seprix
Everyone else

Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.

Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?

[gkrieg13]

Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.

From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". 

"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":

As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):

Seprix
Everyone else

Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.

Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?

You literally just described Awaclus.  I may link to this post in future games

[Awaclus]

Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.

From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". 

"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":

As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):

Seprix
Everyone else

Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.

Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?

On f.ds, people never give any credit to reads of townies who get killed.

I don't really think the minimal associations to tie me with my scum partners thing is a thing. I'm voting for the person I want lynched, there's plenty of associations there, and I can only vote for one person so it's not like I could do much more anyway.

On the other hand, staying a closed book throughout the entire game is good, because it denies scum information. If they had all the information, they could just play perfectly and win every game, but denying them information makes it so that they don't always know which play is the right one.

I'm not particularly concerned in making sure people read me as town or actively finding scum. I'm only concerned in making sure town wins the game.

[Awaclus]

Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.

From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". 

"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":

As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):

Seprix
Everyone else

Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.

Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?

You literally just described Awaclus.  I may link to this post in future games

Great, then I can link to my reply to that post whenever you do.

[Jan]

I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.

It was 100% gut at that time. The joke wasn't scummy.

Your recent back and fourth with fontisian is scummy, though. And so is the fact that you aren't voting for her.

Reasons?!
Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not? For me the lio situation is not resolved enough to just switch my vote.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?

This reaction is awful.

[silverspawn]

Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?

Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.

The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.

This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.

As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?

vote: Jan

you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.

You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.

[fontisian]

Really? Because all I see are joke questions these guys won't get and bad attempts at undermining me.

The same way you undermined me earlier?

Like I am saying that you are possible partners with that guy for that question, that doesn't mean you can't continue your game, can you?

People can make up their mind about that. You know i give reads like that more often than not lately so a read like that should not surprise you at all.

I don't think you actually react this way as town. This reaction is over the top and misrepresenting what i have done.

You could complain that I am not as active as I would be in other games we played, but you cannot say that I didn't try to push people into reactions/content.

Like you calling me out for something while doing exactly the same. this time and last time?! what is going on with you?

My call out was designed to a. go after something that wasn't helping, imo and b. done as a joke so you would be the only one to really get it, thus avoiding any undermining. It's not the partner thing that bothers me so much as implicitly supporting people when they say that trying to get reads and trying to push people out of omgus and into real content is scummy. /I/ would expect town you to be pushing for reads as well. At the very least, you should have corrected roadrunner when you saw his post. :/

[fontisian]

Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.

[silverspawn]

err, the part that's scummy about him is not the fact that he doesn't like you.

[silverspawn]

But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?

[liopoil]

Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.

Well this is a bad policy...

Dang Jan. This pressure thing is nonsense; at this point I'm very confident that I won't be lynched today, anyway. And like I told ichi, pressure with you voice not your vote. But that's not even the bad thing. The bad thing is that you haven't commented at all on all the latest people who voted for me and you still haven't explained why you voted in the first place satisfactorily. Oh and you're still hung up on this scumteam thing, which is not only pointless to talk about right now but also way too obvious given our weird interactions. If you're town cut it out, if you're scum keep it up and we can lynch you.

[liopoil]

spending 20 minutes between writing the first half, then being busy and then writing the 2nd half and posting without rereading.

I don't think 2x gut is needed to bring my point across.

Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?

Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now.

Explain why you are saying this.

I am saying this because I believe that the possibility of a lio/fonti/Reggie scumteam is highly relevant to our current situation and thus we should spend the rest of the day discussing it to death, since after all it is just D1 so there is nothing more important to think about right now.

[silverspawn]

excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.

[liopoil]

excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.

Okay well hopefully it was obvious. I thought it made the point more clear.

[Awaclus]

excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.

I think excessive use is fine. It's the subtle use that can create confusion.

[silverspawn]

Okay that's probably true

[Haddock]

But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?

Is she, though?  Where?

Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.  Which  makes me think you're town.  Seriously.  Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.

[Haddock]

Also, yeah, Awa, back to the thing.

You are massively self-conscious as both alignments.  Which is fine.

But you definitely haven't been helpful as town lately.  Tunneling someone without giving reasons is not helpful.
(Here I'm defining helpful to mean "helping other people out right now in the current situation" rather than "helpful for the overall winning of the game)

[Jan]

Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?

Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.

The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.

This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.

As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?

vote: Jan

you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.

You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.

I will explain again why i am not changing my vote. maybe you will understand it. most likely i won't care.

My initial read on fonti here is in big parts circumstantial.
If Leo flips is scum, then this is coaching. That also means if Leo is town, then her question is actually ok (that is why I was curious about scumchat, because with daychat she would ask him to do this in there and not in thread).
Her reaction is still meh, but we butt heads sometimes and her asking the question as scum to a town seems less likely, unless her partners are in a good positon and she wants said town to throw scum on other town.

So far understandable? Good.
Next step.

I can either stay with my vote on Lio to keep some pressure on him, or change my vote to fonti who won't actually get a lot of pressure by doing so (2nd vote?!)
The moment I switch my vote away from Lio the chances of him feeling less pressured and other people considering to unvote becomes real. I did not want the wagon to dissolve at the time.
On the other hand - if i actually get a townread on lio here, then Fonti looks several times better. So keeping pressure on him gives me a lot.

So overall my vote stays on someone who I think is scum. The only person who I would change it to at them moment would be you.
Why? For example :

You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.

This is a lie. Remember how i overreacted towards Klopp at least 2 times, because he played like shit and made the worst accusation towards me d1/2 and several people thought i am scum for overreaction and trying to rip his head off?
You should know better because that was the main reason several people considered me scum that game.
Try again.

But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?

Is she, though?  Where?

Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.  Which  makes me think you're town.  Seriously.  Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.

And no - he is only side-slinging some mud in fontis direction. He is actually tunneling on me at the moment. For several made up reasons. And I agree if his reasoning was good that might be towny. But his make believe show is more a clownsfest than the work of a magician.

[silverspawn]

Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.

I'm townreading fontisian. Do you mean Jan?

[silverspawn]

But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?

Is she, though?  Where?

Here:

Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.

[liopoil]

if you're scum keep it up and we can lynch you.

Cool, Vote: Jan

[faust]

Sherlock and John sit in the anteroom, waiting to be admitted. Upon Sherlock's lap sat a small cage, and within it a rather ragged-looking rat. The anteroom is almost empty, only an elderly couple sits across from them, their Labrador retriever at their feet. John browses through a magazine on vegan lifestyle that he picked up from the table.

"I still don't get why you didn't simply say you wanted to talk to her."

"We don't want to draw attention, John."

"And you think that this is more subtle, coming in here with some rat that looks like we caught it straight from the sewers, looking for treatment?"

"Well, it is straight from the sewers."

"I don't think I even want to know..."

The receptionist walks into the room. "Mr Watson?" Sherlock and John get up and follow her into the examination room. "Dr Gorman will be with you an a minute."

A short time later, a small, skinny woman enters the room, presumably in her late forties. "Hello. What can I do for you and your... oh, it's you."

"A pleasure to meet you again, Dr Gorman."

"Right... so what have you got here?" she asked. "A rat? You never quite struck me as the rodent type."

"It's not my rat. You can keep it if you want. I'm here for Betty."

"Betty? I don't know any Betty."

"You do," John explains. "A cat. Her owner brought her here about a week ago, with some sickness that you apparently could not identify."

Dr Gorman considers this for a while with a strained expression. Then she responded: "Yes, yes... I believe I remember. I'm afraid to say the fellow was a tad paranoid. Kept insisting that Betty had been poisoned or something. I ran all standard tests - rat poison and whatnot - but could not find anything. It was just a standard case of kitty flu. I prescribed her some medicine. But -" Dr Gorman stops for a short time "- why do you want to know?"

"Oh, you know," Sherlock answers, "the usual."

"I see. Well, I'm afraid that's all I can tell you. Now, if you'll excuse me. I have actual suffering patients out there waiting to be treated."

Vote Count 1.6

2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (4): Jan, Teproc, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
fontisian (1): Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil

Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.

[J Reggie]

So which one of us is the rat? 

Hmm, it looks like lio's response is actually more nervous town than nervous scum. I like going back to vote: Jan here.

[Seprix]

Back after a long grueling day at work. There's apparently some case on Jan, but I'm not seeing it. I'll look it over again, maybe it'll make sense to me.