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[werothegreat]

Baldrick!  I have a cunning plan...

-How good is this Event?
-When do you want to buy it?
-What piles are best to have the trashing token on?

[theright555J]

It's good if an engine is otherwise possible but no other trashing. Best with piles you want a large number of (Hamlet, Menagerie, FishVill, Advisor, many others)

[Limetime]

Seems meh

[Infthitbox]

In every game that I've ended up buying Plan at all, I opened on it. I was pretty happy to open 3/4 over 4/3 in those games. Usually I put it on whatever card I planned on buying next, just trying to get my trashing out of the way as early as possible. I have moved it around during a game as well, typically onto a village+.

[drsteelhammer]

Like Infinitehitbox said, opening with it is really nice because you can get rid of one estate in the first shuffle already without having to have a trasher in your deck. Also your opening buy will show up T3/T4 guaranteed. So I actually think this is not so strong on villages/advisor since you don't want to open with it. Trashing an Estate on Turn 2 is really strong. So on most boards, 3/4 looks a lot cooler than 4/3 with Plan as only trasher.

Besides engines, I strongly think that this is the first trasher that helps Big Money really nicely aswell. Instead of opening Silver/Smithy just go Plan/Smithy which lets you trash 2-3 Estates/Coppers early which sounds a lot better than one Silver.

I also want to try out Plan/FG at some point, it looks like something that could be worth losing th FG split 4/6

[markusin]

Like Infinitehitbox said, opening with it is really nice because you can get rid of one estate in the first shuffle already without having to have a trasher in your deck. Also your opening buy will show up T3/T4 guaranteed. So I actually think this is not so strong on villages/advisor since you don't want to open with it. Trashing an Estate on Turn 2 is really strong. So on most boards, 3/4 looks a lot cooler than 4/3 with Plan as only trasher.

Besides engines, I strongly think that this is the first trasher that helps Big Money really nicely aswell. Instead of opening Silver/Smithy just go Plan/Smithy which lets you trash 2-3 Estates/Coppers early which sounds a lot better than one Silver.

I also want to try out Plan/FG at some point, it looks like something that could be worth losing th FG split 4/6

Woah, Infthitbox is short for infinitehitbox? The world is starting to make sense.

[Limetime]

Like Infinitehitbox said, opening with it is really nice because you can get rid of one estate in the first shuffle already without having to have a trasher in your deck. Also your opening buy will show up T3/T4 guaranteed. So I actually think this is not so strong on villages/advisor since you don't want to open with it. Trashing an Estate on Turn 2 is really strong. So on most boards, 3/4 looks a lot cooler than 4/3 with Plan as only trasher.

Besides engines, I strongly think that this is the first trasher that helps Big Money really nicely aswell. Instead of opening Silver/Smithy just go Plan/Smithy which lets you trash 2-3 Estates/Coppers early which sounds a lot better than one Silver.

I also want to try out Plan/FG at some point, it looks like something that could be worth losing th FG split 4/6

WOuldn't you rather put it on silver because you want a lot more silvers than smithies. I guess you can move it.

[drsteelhammer]

Like Infinitehitbox said, opening with it is really nice because you can get rid of one estate in the first shuffle already without having to have a trasher in your deck. Also your opening buy will show up T3/T4 guaranteed. So I actually think this is not so strong on villages/advisor since you don't want to open with it. Trashing an Estate on Turn 2 is really strong. So on most boards, 3/4 looks a lot cooler than 4/3 with Plan as only trasher.

Besides engines, I strongly think that this is the first trasher that helps Big Money really nicely aswell. Instead of opening Silver/Smithy just go Plan/Smithy which lets you trash 2-3 Estates/Coppers early which sounds a lot better than one Silver.

I also want to try out Plan/FG at some point, it looks like something that could be worth losing th FG split 4/6

WOuldn't you rather put it on silver because you want a lot more silvers than smithies. I guess you can move it.

Yes I would, but Donald wouldn't allow it!

[werothegreat]

Like Infinitehitbox said, opening with it is really nice because you can get rid of one estate in the first shuffle already without having to have a trasher in your deck. Also your opening buy will show up T3/T4 guaranteed. So I actually think this is not so strong on villages/advisor since you don't want to open with it. Trashing an Estate on Turn 2 is really strong. So on most boards, 3/4 looks a lot cooler than 4/3 with Plan as only trasher.

Besides engines, I strongly think that this is the first trasher that helps Big Money really nicely aswell. Instead of opening Silver/Smithy just go Plan/Smithy which lets you trash 2-3 Estates/Coppers early which sounds a lot better than one Silver.

I also want to try out Plan/FG at some point, it looks like something that could be worth losing th FG split 4/6

WOuldn't you rather put it on silver because you want a lot more silvers than smithies. I guess you can move it.

You can only Plan on Actions.

I think something like Plan/Tournament would just be balls-out ridiculous.

[Chris is me]

Plan on a 3/4 opening is really good.

Plan is just a nice Event - you don't get a TON of mileage around it but it basically means when you buy card X you get to replace a junk card with it instead of increasing your deck size. This makes cantrips, non terminal draw, and Villages a lot better!

Ironmonger, Advisor, Herald, basically any $4 you buy en masse is a great target for Plan. You just have to plan ahead a little. Ha.

It's not the greatest event ever, but it really doesn't have to be in order to be useful. It's worth buying in many games.

[Dingan]

[Seprix]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

[Beyond Awesome]

This actually guarantees Chapel does not miss the shuffle

[dedicateddan]

Later in the game, you can move plan and buy cards from that pile in the same turn.

It's not the most efficient trasher, but hey, sometimes you need to trash.

[Davio]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

[faust]

Lord Bottington suggests: Move the trashing token on Rats!

[terminalCopper]

I think it's worth mentioning that Plan can still be decent with non-spammable cards. Some examples:

1.) Plan-X is often stronger than silver-X, even if you only want one single copy. E.g., if there is no estate trashing, Plan had the effect of renouncing to silver+estate, that's neat.

2.) You might want multiple copies of a card with the planning token even if you wouldn't buy it at all if plan wasn't there. Example given, Plan-Coppersmith-Coppersmith can be decent.

3.) A strong trasher doesn't mean you have to skip plan. If your first idea is to open double Forager/Masq/Steward/Amulet, consider strongly beginning with Plan before getting two copies. I think it's the better play more often than not due to the increased speed.

[aku_chi]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

Better yet, buy Travelling Fair + Squire on turn 1.  On turn 2, play Squire and gain Silver (optionally), buy Bonfire to trash Squire and Copper and gain Goons!

[GendoIkari]

You can open Plan-Ferry on the same pile, so there's that. I did that once, but screwed up and did it on a pile that while being a very good card, was a terminal.

[popsofctown]

No one in my local area plays Dominion and isotropic is dead so I can only participate in this thread with idle speculation.

It seems like it might synergize a little bit with Poor house, especially if you have both Village and +buy.

It might play a unique role for decks that want to trash 3 Estates but don't want to trash Coppers or anything else (or are indifferent about trashing anything else).  In the long term it even outclasses Chapel at doing that, Chapel could trash the 3 Estates but now you have an Estate named Chapel, Plan isn't part of your deck.

So Stables would be a real biggie here.  Might not be good enough to cause Plan to outclass Chapel itself since Chapel is so fast, and you can Plan away Chapel itself if you insist on it anyhow, but Stables might let it outclass Lookout, Steward, Develop, Hermit, Remodel, etc.

Plan/Potion on an Apothecary board similarly seems pretty strong.  Maybe even more often because Apothecary can start buying Provinces so early, and if that Stables deck is competing with any kind of engine that can run Lab strength cards and also trash every copper, that Stables deck can't seal out the game as fast as the Apothecary deck can.

[Seprix]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

Better yet, buy Travelling Fair + Squire on turn 1.  On turn 2, play Squire and gain Silver (optionally), buy Bonfire to trash Squire and Copper and gain Goons!

That's freaking OP!

[markusin]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

Better yet, buy Travelling Fair + Squire on turn 1.  On turn 2, play Squire and gain Silver (optionally), buy Bonfire to trash Squire and Copper and gain Goons!

That's freaking OP!

Meh, Goons/- or even Goons/Chapel on 6/2 with Baker Token or Borrow is similarly OP and requires fewer cards to set up.

[GendoIkari]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

Better yet, buy Travelling Fair + Squire on turn 1.  On turn 2, play Squire and gain Silver (optionally), buy Bonfire to trash Squire and Copper and gain Goons!

That's freaking OP!

Or, you know, just buy Goons on turn 1 using your Baker token.

[JThorne]

Plan has some interesting opportunity-cost math.

Most trash-one instances are underwhelming (Raze, Trade Route, Forager) which don't tend to create lean, mean decks compared to the multi-trashers (Steward, Remake, Chapel) which can thin decks down to practically nothing. Plan is somewhere in between.

This event looks like a trash-one at first, but it compares surprisingly favorably to cards like Remake: You open Remake, [whatever] and then shuffle. You aren't playing Remake every turn, you're playing it roughly every OTHER turn, once per shuffle, so you're essentially alternating between trashing two (and maybe gaining one or having enough money left to buy something) and trashing none/buying one. So it averages out to be trash one/buy one every turn.

When you Plan, you're also buying one and trashing one every turn, provided you want a lot of whatever you're buying. It doesn't reduce your deck size, but if you're buying a cantrip, it's effectively reducing your deck size by one. Plus it starts trashing turn 2 instead of 3/4.

If you're not playing a one-card strategy, however, then you have to start buying other things and it stops working. Moving the Plan token usually isn't an efficient use of buys/turns. On the other hand, it also doesn't end up as a dead card in your hand as happens with many trashers once you start drawing it only with cards you want to keep.

So buy Plan if you're building something that doesn't require thinning your deck of all of your starting cards, but could benefit significantly from thinning as you build.

[werothegreat]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

[Seprix]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Why would anybody do that?

[Burning Skull]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Why would anybody do that?

You have four buys, 18 coins, two useless Estates in hand and a strong desire to buy exactly one King's Court and one Wharf.

[Seprix]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Why would anybody do that?

You have four buys, 18 coins, two useless Estates in hand and a strong desire to buy exactly one King's Court and one Wharf.

I'd buy two Wharves/KC over Plan twice, easily.

[markusin]

Plan has some interesting opportunity-cost math.

Most trash-one instances are underwhelming (Raze, Trade Route, Forager) which don't tend to create lean, mean decks compared to the multi-trashers (Steward, Remake, Chapel) which can thin decks down to practically nothing. Plan is somewhere in between.

This event looks like a trash-one at first, but it compares surprisingly favorably to cards like Remake: You open Remake, [whatever] and then shuffle. You aren't playing Remake every turn, you're playing it roughly every OTHER turn, once per shuffle, so you're essentially alternating between trashing two (and maybe gaining one or having enough money left to buy something) and trashing none/buying one. So it averages out to be trash one/buy one every turn.

When you Plan, you're also buying one and trashing one every turn, provided you want a lot of whatever you're buying. It doesn't reduce your deck size, but if you're buying a cantrip, it's effectively reducing your deck size by one. Plus it starts trashing turn 2 instead of 3/4.

If you're not playing a one-card strategy, however, then you have to start buying other things and it stops working. Moving the Plan token usually isn't an efficient use of buys/turns. On the other hand, it also doesn't end up as a dead card in your hand as happens with many trashers once you start drawing it only with cards you want to keep.

So buy Plan if you're building something that doesn't require thinning your deck of all of your starting cards, but could benefit significantly from thinning as you build.

I think a Village/Smithy engine variants can benefit a lot from Plan. These decks require lots of certain components but can get away without having all starting cards trashed. Plus, Plan l's gradual trashing is more suited for Village/Smithy variants that tend to like having early economy to get the engine components as opposed to what you get with aggressive trashing like you get with Chapel or Steward.

Also, I don't agree that Forager in particular doesn't tend to lead to thin, mean decks. Being non-terminal lets a player safely get like 3 Foragers that trash while bringing extra utility in the form of coin and buy. Later they can just trash themselves. Not a card to be underestimated by any means.

[markusin]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Why would anybody do that?

You have four buys, 18 coins, two useless Estates in hand and a strong desire to buy exactly one King's Court and one Wharf.

I'd buy two Wharves/KC over Plan twice, easily.

There is only one Wharf left in the supply.

EDGECASE

But yeah, I'd expect there to be something better to do than buy Plan twice in a turn.

[GendoIkari]

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Has anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a game? It just doesn't seem like something you'd do often.

Unless, you know, you didn't... plan.

[DG]

Has anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a game? It just doesn't seem like something you'd do often.

Unless, you know, you didn't... plan.

Why not? If you plan to buy embargoes but the embargo pile runs out, maybe you need a new plan to deal with all those embargo tokens.

[jomini]

If you open $4/$3 and your opponent opens $3/$4 on a Tournament/Plan board with no trashing, that would suck.

Just buy Nomad Camp/Mountebank.

Better yet, buy Travelling Fair + Squire on turn 1.  On turn 2, play Squire and gain Silver (optionally), buy Bonfire to trash Squire and Copper and gain Goons!

That's freaking OP!

Or, you know, just buy Goons on turn 1 using your Baker token.

Besides you can always buy Mission on T1, then Ferry onto Goons. On T2 you can then use your Baker coin and Borrow to turn all your Estates into *3* Goons via Inheritance =)

Of course the Minion and Margrave options are likely more overpowered still, but hey.

Had anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a turn?

Has anyone ever bought Plan more than once in a game? It just doesn't seem like something you'd do often.

Unless, you know, you didn't... plan.

Yep. Plan on Familiar, plan on village. If you have a steady stream of curses coming in then you very often want to swap from one massed card to another if you can. Familiar is one of those cards that you will buy a lot (particularly if you are not buying many other actions), but you reach a point where a spare $3 should move the token to some other card you intend to mass, e.g. Bazaar, Kc, Market. In a curse game you often want to trash at least 10 cards and you may want both the early trashing on an early card (like Familiar) and on a later card.

As far as more than once per turn, sure the obvious option is triggering on-trash stuff with emptying piles. E.g. Plan (move to Island), buy last Island, trash Hgrounds (gain EEE), plan (move to Nobles), buy last Nobles, trash Hgrounds (gain EEE). Game ends on Nobles, Islands, and Estates. On trash effects have many, many ways that allow you to edge case needing to spend $6 & 2 buys to trash two cards.