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Author Topic: The Necro Wars  (Read 337487 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3000 on: March 16, 2022, 01:31:15 pm »

As far as other cities go, I do quite like Paris, but worth going there? no.

LaLight

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3001 on: March 16, 2022, 01:52:02 pm »

So Lalight, today is day #3 right? On a scale from 0-10, how would you rate your mood today and yesterday? (Not how your circumstances are evolving, just how you feel relative to them.)

I'd say the day before yesterday was the hardest, closer to 3 or 4, yesterday it was more like 6, today I just woke up, so can't really say

can you be more specific? Like, hard because of taingible things (concrete problems, anxiety, fear, homesickness, etc.) or for no tangible cause? ... Hm, I realize this distinction is harder to verbalize than I realized. Maybe motivation is the best proxy.

mmm I would say I mean the level with which problems influence my decisions, as in for instance if I need to climb a staircase 1 would be sit down and cry and 10 - Happily think how cool I look climbing the stairs and climbing them.

Day before yesterday was the day when every problem in my life came crushing me and I got very desperate thinking and overthinking them.


Today so far is good, I am not anxious, not really sad, even after my friend told me I am a coward for leaving and not staying to fight. Feels a bit better.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3002 on: March 16, 2022, 02:01:15 pm »

I mean obviously doing the unusual, weird thing of LEAVING THE COUNTRY is the thing that takes courage, not the socially rewarded thing of staying there

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3003 on: March 16, 2022, 02:04:34 pm »

I mean you *could* also leave because you are rationally afraid of war, but I doubt that's why most people leave.

Do you think you would have left if your country was the one being invaded rather than vice versa?

LaLight

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3004 on: March 16, 2022, 02:27:07 pm »

I mean you *could* also leave because you are rationally afraid of war, but I doubt that's why most people leave.

Do you think you would have left if your country was the one being invaded rather than vice versa?

Well, it depends on the cause. If I were from Ukraine right now, I think I wouldn't leave. Although I can not fathom the hell Ukrainians are going through right now, so I really don't know. If I stayed in Russia and then the tide turned and Russia would be being invaded for what they did with Ukraine, I would've left immediately.

Initially I would say I left because I wanted to have nothing to do with that country any more.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3005 on: March 16, 2022, 04:50:51 pm »



Since we are all phenomenologically identical, I'd say I'm sorry this happened to us

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3006 on: March 16, 2022, 05:54:38 pm »

ah why is no-one responding to me? I'm waiting on like three different conversations

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3007 on: March 16, 2022, 06:12:14 pm »

So consider a universe, similar to ours but just a little bit simplified. Like let's take away 2 of the dimensions and also make it discrete, and also only three places. So this is the universe

[]
[]
[]

Then assume the only object in this universe is a single x, and the universe evolves like so

 [ ]  [v]  [ ]  [ ]  [ ]  [ ]
 [v]  [ ]  [v]  [ ]  [ ]  [ ]
 [ ]  [ ]  [ ]  [v]  [ ]  [ ]

and that's it; the x fell out of the universe and is now gone forever

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3008 on: March 16, 2022, 06:12:34 pm »

we can plot the position of the universe like so

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3009 on: March 16, 2022, 06:14:18 pm »

Or rather, the history of the universe.

Now there are two ways of interpreting this. One is that time is a real thing and the universe evolves like this. First it is in state 1, then 2, then 1, then 0, then 0, then 0, then 0, ...

This however is problematic because if we begin at time step t0, what happened at time step t-1? what at t-2?

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3010 on: March 16, 2022, 06:15:36 pm »

The other interpretation is to treat time like another dimension and assert that the entire history is real.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3011 on: March 16, 2022, 06:18:57 pm »

How plausible are these? As far as I can see, the second is strictly more plausible?

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3012 on: March 16, 2022, 06:21:58 pm »

One can now ask the same question about our universe, except that we have some extra evidence for #2 based on special relativity. All objects move at lightspeed through the (time,space) vectorspace, the speed is constant because lightspeed is a constant, so if they move more through space, they move less through time. This is difficult to bring together with the first view where time is a universal... in fact we simply know that time is not a ground truth.

Also, if the second law of thermodynamics holds up, the universe  has to die in a heat death eventually, so we have the same problem as before with "what happened 10^20 years earlier?"

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3013 on: March 16, 2022, 06:22:42 pm »

This is totally unrelated to what I'm working on, but I found it interesting.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3014 on: March 16, 2022, 06:24:44 pm »

I in fact suspect that the idea that things can "change" with "time" is just another fiction and logically possible. Also not something that's possible to formalize; I mean sure we can do time steps, but that just yields a function f : N -> {someting}, which is really the second model.

LaLight

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3015 on: March 17, 2022, 02:45:42 am »

ah why is no-one responding to me? I'm waiting on like three different conversations

i think i responded?
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3016 on: March 17, 2022, 04:36:53 am »

no no you're not one of them, I was talking about conversations on other places, mostly via pm

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3017 on: March 17, 2022, 04:43:35 am »

and in general I wouldn't complain about something that happens here, that would be a weird dishonest passive-aggressive signaling

LaLight

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3018 on: March 17, 2022, 08:17:30 am »

and in general I wouldn't complain about something that happens here, that would be a weird dishonest passive-aggressive signaling

yeah, I thought that was weird
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Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3019 on: March 17, 2022, 09:32:01 am »

ah why is no-one responding to me? I'm waiting on like three different conversations

i think i responded?

Ergo, silverspawn thinks you're no-one.

no no you're not one of them

This further supports the conclusion.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3020 on: March 17, 2022, 12:12:25 pm »

True insofar as "LaLight" describes the non-physical entity living in Lalight's body that implements his identity, but of course that is equally true for everyone else.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3021 on: March 17, 2022, 02:03:46 pm »

If anyone wants to flex their philosophical/logical muscles, a redditor posed to me this reason to object physicalism (the claim that the laws of physics are causally complete/closed).

Suppose physicalism is true. A person in a room is about to write either 0 or 1 on a piece of paper. Before they do, they run a computer program that perfectly models/simulates absolutely everything in the room (it's all just atoms, so no problem!). The program will now have computed whether the person writes 0 or 1, and can output the answer. The person reads the answer and does the opposite of whatever it says. Hence the program was wrong, hence a correct program can't exist, hence physicalism is false.

What if anything is wrong with this?

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3022 on: March 17, 2022, 02:05:23 pm »

Similar ideas have been used in various fantasy stories involving fortune telling. Usually authors get around those by "the person tries to cause a contradiction and involuntarily makes the outcome come true" or "well the predictions aren't 100% accurate" (e.g. Eragon does this). But neither of these excuses work here.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3023 on: March 17, 2022, 02:44:04 pm »

If anyone wants to flex their philosophical/logical muscles, a redditor posed to me this reason to object physicalism (the claim that the laws of physics are causally complete/closed).

Suppose physicalism is true. A person in a room is about to write either 0 or 1 on a piece of paper. Before they do, they run a computer program that perfectly models/simulates absolutely everything in the room (it's all just atoms, so no problem!). The program will now have computed whether the person writes 0 or 1, and can output the answer. The person reads the answer and does the opposite of whatever it says. Hence the program was wrong, hence a correct program can't exist, hence physicalism is false.

What if anything is wrong with this?

A correct program would need to simulate itself simulating itself simulating itself etc. infinitely and then output the answer. This is indeed not possible, and there is no contradiction between physicalism and a program being unable to finish an infinite recursion.
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faust

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #3024 on: March 17, 2022, 02:58:16 pm »

If anyone wants to flex their philosophical/logical muscles, a redditor posed to me this reason to object physicalism (the claim that the laws of physics are causally complete/closed).

Suppose physicalism is true. A person in a room is about to write either 0 or 1 on a piece of paper. Before they do, they run a computer program that perfectly models/simulates absolutely everything in the room (it's all just atoms, so no problem!). The program will now have computed whether the person writes 0 or 1, and can output the answer. The person reads the answer and does the opposite of whatever it says. Hence the program was wrong, hence a correct program can't exist, hence physicalism is false.

What if anything is wrong with this?

A correct program would need to simulate itself simulating itself simulating itself etc. infinitely and then output the answer. This is indeed not possible, and there is no contradiction between physicalism and a program being unable to finish an infinite recursion.
I'd +1 this if I could.

Indeed you could think of both the person A and the program B as algorithms. Program A outputs not(B), and program B outputs A. There you immediately see the recursion.
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